Disobedience has consequences.

[Skavau]

.. Now I am thinking about this. What do you suppose makes them wrong?

They dictate to their citizens, control their private affairs (or try to), prohibit free expression, association and even thought.

 

[oi_antz]

I don't understand the question. A change of attitude on behalf of who? Who has changed their attitude in this context?

As I see the story, from a non-literal (not factually true) perspective, when Adam and Eve began studying good and evil to obtain and consume knowledge of it, the woman came to resent childbirth. Instead of a wonderful miracle, it is now a painful curse, as the child grows to also learn of good and evil and will cause her suffering in future. Before that time, I can imagine, the woman would have not resented the process of childbirth because it is a wonderful blessing to receive offspring. We see too, with the man previously able to walk around as a gardener and just freely eat fruits and herbs, now he has to toil the land by the sweat of his brow, and thorns and thistles (if you are agriculturally versed) are noxious, painful pests. IOW, Adam and Eve lost the love they had for life, and were enslaved to survival. To view the story this way shows me very strong indications of the beginning of civilisation, of the establishment where humans rule to serve their own desires, and are governed by greed.

Do you believe that we are cursed due to original sin?

I believe that sin is a curse, and that everyone is impacted by it. Even those who resist and abstain from it (eg Jesus Christ).

Are you a universalist? My point only applies to those who believe in a hell for Non-Christians.

No, I view the scriptures indicating annihilation rather than torture.

So you are conflating worship with look up to or seek advice?

No, that's what the etc stood for. Worship is it's own word with no substitute.

Sure, but what if one wants to have a different day to enjoy life. Why particular reverance for a specific day?

I reckon that if everyone agrees and cooperates, there is more cohesion and harmony.

 

[oi_antz]

They dictate to their citizens, control their private affairs (or try to), prohibit free expression, association and even thought.

What do you think makes it bad for someone to do this?

 

[LostMarbels]

Can you please explain what you mean to describe by the term "hellfire", and please provide scriptural support. Do you mean everlasting torment, or do you mean everlasting destruction? They are very different things.

I do not get into semantics. They are pointless. The message is:
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It simply doesn't matter how you term it. The event will happen.

 

[LostMarbels]

They dictate to their citizens, control their private affairs (or try to), prohibit free expression, association and even thought.

"free expression"

Your a proponent of free will? Never would have guessed. Most atheist believe no one has a choice to do anything.

 

[Davian]

...
I guess, in a sense. A warning, ultimatum......

As I said before. God is sovereign.
This is how it is going to be done. It is a warning because everyone is forewarned.

If what form was this warning made? Did you believe me when I warned you that your home was on fire?

You have your entire life to accept him.

Belief is not a choice. I am not convinced this offer has any validity.

 

[Davian]

Of course it is. This however does not prove the validity of your belief, or theirs. This is more along the lines of " I'm good, because others do it."



Everybody on this earth will be given the choice. Just like you are right now. You've heard the message now you have to choose. Complete disregard will change nothing other than that individual has already made the choice to disregard.

Most of the errors about my God are complete misunderstanding of who he really is.

How did you obtain this knowledge?

 

[Davian]

Well... if you want to know then ask. You keep telling me why you don't believe, and I'm stating you don't believe because you haven't asked Jesus. If you honestly want to know... ask Jesus.

 

[Davian]

I do not get into semantics. They are pointless.
...

Are we not in a philosophy forum?

 

[Davian]

Thanks. What will you say to the other question I asked you:

What about the content of the other books in the bible, particularly the book of Acts?

Does that book explain how your religion successfully repeals the laws pf physics?

I do not know of a better explanation.

An argument from ignorance, a fallacy in informal logic.

Ok, thanks. Can I make an adjustment then and see what your answer will be:

Well in making the claim that I am mistaken about my experiences and what they mean WRT God being real, which contradicts what I think is most the reasonable belief, I am skeptical of that idea. I can not just believe your idea without a good enough reason.

I am not making the claim that you are mistaken about your experiences. Do not misrepresent my position. The burden is on you to show that you are not mistaken.

Perhaps you are a biological miracle, and you are immune to all of those memory issues previously referenced, and you should take yourself to the nearest neuroscientist. The Nobel committee awaits.

Probably. But I am making these arguments here today, and it is giving you the opportunity to say what you want to say. Together we are establishing, refining and stating (ie studying) the fundamental nature of knowledge.

Not if you are still at the point where you think fallacious arguments support your position.

Reality and existence, well let's see whether we get an opportnity to discuss that. I am engaged in that with GrimKingGrim, so that is interesting for me too.

Can you please confirm that this is in fact true, rather than just that you would need to entertain that your fundamental assumption about the state of the starting point might be wrong?

I can confirm that it is in fact true, I do not take you seriously.

 

[Davian]

You made a conclusion without obtaining information first, and you turned out to be in error. That is foolhardy.

What error did I make?

This was an example of someone being foolhardy, doing the exact same thing. I know two statements in scripture that say without any room to argue, that Jesus Christ's life was demanded and paid to humans.

Allegedly.

This guy was foolhardy to proclaim that there was no scriptural basis for it without even asking first.

My experience in these forums has shown me that there is no position, however contradictory to another, that cannot be in some way shown to have a scriptural basis in the Bible.

 

[Davian]

...
Most atheist believe no one has a choice to do anything.

Please substantiate that opinion.

 

[SkyWriting]

What warning about cause and effect does it attempt to teach?

Those who do not Trust in the Father will not be granted an audience
with the Father in the next life. The result is misery alone in Hell.

What is the point of such a warning if it never ends?

The warning ends at the first death, the resultant time spent in "hell" is virtually eternal,
the second death ends hell itself.
http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-14.htm

 

[SkyWriting]

Most of Scandinavia for example is probably Non-Christian. Entire parts of the world are Islamic or Hindu or Shinto with almost no Christian representation. He knows that billions will not believe in him and for entirely honest reasons yet allows them to be tortured for eternity for the crime of their conviction.

You'd be surprised at who lives outside your front door.

1. Religion in Norway is mostly Evangelical Lutheran, with 76.1% of the population officially belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway in 2013. The Roman Catholic Church is the next largest Christian denomination at 2.4% and a total of 82% belong to Christian denominations.

Those who reject God are tormented by their decision.
And Hell is destroyed at the second death.
http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-14.htm

 

[SkyWriting]

.

 

[Davian]

Those who do not Trust in the Father will not be granted an audience
with the Father in the next life.
...

Unless there is no "next life". Nothing then to be concerned about.

Skywriting Accident

• Davian
• May 23, 2015

 

[SkyWriting]

Unless there is no "next life".

Skywriting Accident

• Davian
• May 23, 2015

That is just an assumption Christians carry solely by faith.
I leave it up to the "Ghosthunters" on TV to prove my stand
that the Bible is accurate saying "God is Spirit".

.

 

[Blue Wren]

You'd be surprised at who lives outside your front door.

1. Religion in Norway is mostly Evangelical Lutheran, with 76.1% of the population officially belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway in 2013. The Roman Catholic Church is the next largest Christian denomination at 2.4% and a total of 82% belong to Christian denominations.

Those who reject God are tormented by their decision.
And Hell is destroyed at the second death.
http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-14.htm

You need to read more of the Wikipedia article about Religion in Norway, than the first few sentences, to understand it. What it says, under Religion in Norway Today, that is true. As with Sweden, there are many, who are officially members of the church, but are not adherents. They attend, for traditions. Weekly church attendance, it's very low, less than 4% of the membership. In a 2010 poll, only 18% of Swedes, answered that there is a god. Norway, it's the least religious country, in Western Europe.

The fire & brimstone message, it's the fastest way, to get a Scandinavian, to think you're mad in the head, and not listen to a word you say about Jesus.

 

[SkyWriting]

You need to read more of the Wikipedia article about Religion in Norway, than the first few sentences, to understand it. What it says, under Religion in Norway Today, that is true. As with Sweden, there are many, who are officially members of the church, but are not adherents. They attend, for traditions. Weekly church attendance, it's very low, less than 4% of the membership. In a 2010 poll, only 18% of Swedes, answered that there is a god. Norway, it's the least religious country, in Western Europe.

The fire & brimstone message, it's the fastest way, to get a Scandinavian, to think you're mad in the head, and not listen to a word you say about Jesus.

That goes for anywhere. Norway is not special.

YIPeS...Norway didn't even make the list!

 

[Davian]

That is just an assumption Christians carry solely by faith.

Indeed. It is seriously lacking in evidentiary support.

I leave it up to the "Ghosthunters" on TV to prove my stand
that the Bible is accurate saying "God is Spirit".

I guess that about wraps it up for God.