Disobedience has consequences.

[oi_antz]

I don't know because I am not God and I don't presume to understand how he thinks. But thanks for asking.

This is cause for concern, Catherine. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+2:15-16&version=NIV

 

[oi_antz]

How come their prayer didn't warrant an intervention? Didn't they pray hard enough?

You might consider some conflict between God's desires.

 

[LostMarbels]

I don't believe that Jesus exists. Your advice to me is like a Muslim telling you to try and talk to Allah.

It doesn't take belief or faith to look into something. Just curiosity. I don't believe 2+2=5 but I would look into it to see if there was something to it.

You see... there is power in the name of Jesus that is not in any other name. Someone can not falsely claim that Jesus is come in the flesh. You can jump around from religion to religion and claim many Gods, but you cannot falsely claim Jesus Christ as Lord. It cannot be done. Even a theist that claims many gods cannot claim Jesus Christ as lord, even tho they can confess in multiple gods, and religions.

 

[Colter]

I am sure He knew. I am sure He knew that He would produce a Noah and more like him.

According to the story, this Noah was found passed out drunk and naked in his tent after his year long odassey with millions of spicies of living things on his boat? God chose him and drowned the rest of the world, pregnant mothers, infants and such?

Btw, I forgot to add one other reason that the story is a problem. Not only does the author have deity regretting his own creative works, drowning the wicked world didn't work, it is as wicked as ever! To me it is a very human story.

 

[oi_antz]

People with minds?

.. And ones that are frequently, persistently wrong.

 

[oi_antz]

According to the story, this Noah was found passed out drunk and naked in his tent?

You don't like that eh? Would you like to explain what else you think makes this man Noah not worth having a human life in a paradise?

 

[oi_antz]

No, the right place spiritually. To communicate with God we have to be where God is. If we put ourselves in a place where he is not, or where we deliberately exclude him, then our prayers are a bit of a waste of time.

God does not want children to die. They do die, nonetheless. I have no idea what the answer to this is; I can only hope that there is a good one.

I think there is some kind of tacit assumption that because people believe in God they therefore think death, disease and suffering is a good thing. It is not a good thing. Another assumption is that God must like it. God does not like it. But he gives us free will; mankind as a whole could make a choice to eliminate hunger. It does not do so.

Humanists don't get off the hook on this one either; why do we not end hunger and suffering? You tell me.

Does God's power and ability to act, depend on our prayers? Is He powerless without them? Can you please explain why you think our prayers can impact His action in any way?

 

[Colter]

You don't like that eh? Would you like to explain what else you think makes this man Noah not worth having a human life in a paradise?

That's not the context, it was the authors assertion that he was the only righteous man in all the world who was worth keeping. It follows with the "chosen people" arrogance of the rest of the dubious stories.

 

[oi_antz]

God also has free will. He could make a choice to eliminate it, but he does not.

Can you please describe what you have in mind?

You mean why don't we end it this very second, with a snap of our fingers? Because we are not omnipotent.

Doesn't require omnipotence, requires only ability and willingness.

 

[oi_antz]

I mean why waste time here arguing with me? Why not go and save the world instead?

That is what he is doing by being here, FYI.

 

[oi_antz]

No, I have problems reconciling Genesis with virtually all of mainstream science, right down to the laws of thermodynamics. I am told by religionists that God/souls/Heaven/etc are all magically free of entropy because... well, after that they sort of fall apart and start preaching.

Thanks. What will you say to the other question I asked you:

What about the content of the other books in the bible, particularly the book of Acts?

How do you know this?

I do not know of a better explanation.

Parsimony. In the absence of evidence for gods, and in the light of how the brain can trick itself, the latter explanation stands, your credulousness notwithstanding.

Ok, thanks. Can I make an adjustment then and see what your answer will be:

Well in making the claim that I am mistaken about my experiences and what they mean WRT God being real, which contradicts what I think is most the reasonable belief, I am skeptical of that idea. I can not just believe your idea without a good enough reason.

"Convincing sense" and "common sense" are not science, or philosophy. As this forum Statement of Purpose states, we are here to the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. Perhaps your arguments would be better suited for the Exploring Christianity forum.

Probably. But I am making these arguments here today, and it is giving you the opportunity to say what you want to say. Together we are establishing, refining and stating (ie studying) the fundamental nature of knowledge. Reality and existence, well let's see whether we get an opportnity to discuss that. I am engaged in that with GrimKingGrim, so that is interesting for me too.

To consider your Adam and Eve story to be possibly true, I would have to entertain that virtually all of mainstream science and knowledge is wrong. You may be able to do that. If you are asking me to take that seriously, I cannot take you seriously.

Can you please confirm that this is in fact true, rather than just that you would need to entertain that your fundamental assumption about the state of the starting point might be wrong?

 

[oi_antz]

Why?

You made a conclusion without obtaining information first, and you turned out to be in error. That is foolhardy.

Until gods are shown to be more than characters in books, the passage has no significance to me.

This was an example of someone being foolhardy, doing the exact same thing. I know two statements in scripture that say without any room to argue, that Jesus Christ's life was demanded and paid to humans. This guy was foolhardy to proclaim that there was no scriptural basis for it without even asking first.

 

[oi_antz]

What is it that God demands of people who want to be saved?

.. Just because you seem to have missed it:

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[oi_antz]

All of this for what? Why wont you just come out and say you will not serve a god unless he is perfect as you view perfection? I would guess this "god" has to ask your permission to act? Maybe be controlled by your opinions, and ideals? Go out back and carve one from wood or stone. That is what allot of peeps do.But where is this god's power? Who is this god that a mere mortal can make him bow, or even fashion his likeness? This is not a god, this is a puppet of our own desire, and a justification of our own beliefs.

I think the thing is, I do not hold to any religion. I confess Jesus Christ as the one true God, and I ask for my understanding as commanded to in the bible. If any, any, of my belief systems oppose the word of God, it must immediately be shot in the head like a zombie, and left to rot so it doesn't bite someone else. I wouldn't even consider to judge God, and expect him to conform to my own belief systems.

Jesus is a stumbling block, and the word of God can not be understood by the carnally minded. Which means they stub a lot of toes. Also, Christianity is hard. It's not all fluff like many assume. And it's not fear either. To love and worship a living God takes a relationship with that God. That takes effort, and the willful diligence of those who seek said relationship. I do not see where there is room to draw lines with God in what will and will not be accepted as His truth, by us, His creation. We need to ask the only one who knows the answers.

Can you please explain what you mean to describe by the term "hellfire", and please provide scriptural support. Do you mean everlasting torment, or do you mean everlasting destruction? They are very different things.

 

[oi_antz]

Monarchies are wrong. Theocracies are wrong. Dictatorships are wrong. Fascism is wrong. Totalitarianism is wrong.

.. Now I am thinking about this. What do you suppose makes them wrong?

 

[oi_antz]

You've heard the message

I am not sure he has, TBH.

 

[oi_antz]

Not cursing and blaming an entire species for the actions of two representatives of it would be fine.

You refer to the painful childbirth and the thorns and thistles that make us labour for food? Why do you think this was not just a change in attitude?

What is this "blame" that you have described? I don't recognise that doctrine.

Just not threatening us with hell for dying in a state of non-belief would be more ethical.

Can you please show me why you believe that this is what He intends to do? I have not seen proof of this intention yet. Thanks.

I assumed that God would like us to behave in a way that helps the world. Not bog us down in pointless ritual and demanding reverence and respect for being God.

That was this bit that I showed you before, maybe you didn't see it:

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Why does God care if we worship him or hold a particular day as holy?

To worship Him means to look to Him for guidance, authority etc. To take that bit away means we look to ourselves or to others for guidance and authority. But He is in a much better osition to do that whereas humans are limited in their perception/understanding/information/knowledge and we have self-serving motives to suit our own desires. I think the Sabbath day was intended to enable us to enjoy life, having a chance to relax, be sociable, smell roses etc instead of just labouring to gather as much wealth as we can. Because work should be to support the lifestyle rather than to replace it. This way, He is commanding everyone to respect lifestyle.

 

[oi_antz]

I don't believe that Jesus exists. Your advice to me is like a Muslim telling you to try and talk to Allah.

FYI: this is not the same to me. I just do not trust that god.

 

[oi_antz]

That's not the context, it was the authors assertion that he was the only righteous man in all the world who was worth keeping. It follows with the "chosen people" arrogance of the rest of the dubious stories.

Do you believe that there was more righteous people than just him and his family in that time? Can you please show me why you believe this?

 

[Skavau]

You refer to the painful childbirth and the thorns and thistles that make us labour for food? Why do you think this was not just a change in attitude?

I don't understand the question. A change of attitude on behalf of who? Who has changed their attitude in this context?

What is this "blame" that you have described? I don't recognise that doctrine.

Do you believe that we are cursed due to original sin?

Can you please show me why you believe that this is what He intends to do? I have not seen proof of this intention yet. Thanks.

Are you a universalist? My point only applies to those who believe in a hell for Non-Christians.

To worship Him means to look to Him for guidance, authority etc. To take that bit away means we look to ourselves or to others for guidance and authority. But He is in a much better osition to do that whereas humans are limited in their perception/understanding/information/knowledge and we have self-serving motives to suit our own desires.

So you are conflating worship with look up to or seek advice?

I think the Sabbath day was intended to enable us to enjoy life, having a chance to relax, be sociable, smell roses etc instead of just labouring to gather as much wealth as we can. Because work should be to support the lifestyle rather than to replace it. This way, He is commanding everyone to respect lifestyle.

Sure, but what if one wants to have a different day to enjoy life. Why particular reverance for a specific day?