Disobedience has consequences.

[Skavau]

I rather see as a consequence not being able to eat of the tree of life, which was caused by having pursued knowledge of good and evil. Yes, if humans had not been warring and striving against each other all this time, and making the world what God wants it to be, we would know how to cure these children and more importantly, to prevent the cause of their disease. You can see the problem in the world, can't you? Mankind has totally chosen to do what it wants and told God to go elsewhere.

You mean two people chose to do what they want. Why should their decision infect all of humanity?

Query: How is it that you think God wants the world to be? How should we act?

 

[oi_antz]

I would categorize this as; psychological gymnastics.

Sure. But, would you expect me to disbelieve one of these possible explanations? Can you please explain why?

 

[LostMarbels]

It is entirely possible for me, like billions of others, to live my life in genuine non-belief in God(s).

Of course it is. This however does not prove the validity of your belief, or theirs. This is more along the lines of " I'm good, because others do it."

Most of Scandinavia for example is probably Non-Christian. Entire parts of the world are Islamic or Hindu or Shinto with almost no Christian representation. He knows that billions will not believe in him and for entirely honest reasons yet allows them to be tortured for eternity for the crime of their conviction.

Everybody on this earth will be given the choice. Just like you are right now. You've heard the message now you have to choose. Complete disregard will change nothing other than that individual has already made the choice to disregard.

Most of the errors about my God are complete misunderstanding of who he really is.

 

[Skavau]

Of course it is. This however does not prove the validity of your belief, or theirs. This is more along the lines of " I'm good, because others do it."

I never said it did. That was not my point in bringing it up.

Everybody on this earth will be given the choice. Just like you are right now. You've heard the message now you have to choose. Complete disregard will change nothing other than that individual has already made the choice to disregard.

I've heard you communicating a message you believe to be correct. Muslims have also said similar things to me. Why should I assume that you are (or any evangelist) more likely to be correct than them?

 

[oi_antz]

You mean two people chose to do what they want.

Ah, no. I mean everyone chooses to do what they want.

Why should their decision infect all of humanity?

Everyone's actions impact others, at least by way of example. Adam and Eve's attitude, belief, as a consequence of their understanding of good and evil will naturally impact anyone they know. Can you please explain what you imagine the alternative behaviour to be?

Query: How is it that you think God wants the world to be? How should we act?

For I hungered and you gave me something to eat. I thirsted and you gave drink to me. I was a sojourner, and you extended hachnosas orchim (hospitality) to me.

36 I was naked and you gave me malbish arumim (clothing the naked). I was ill; with bikkur cholim (visiting the sick) you ministered to me. I was in the beit hasohar (prison); you came to me.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

 

[TillICollapse]

Most of the errors about my God are complete misunderstanding of who he really is.

Okay, so make a list of the attributes you have seen demonstrated by God. Not a list of attributes you just believe but have not seen demonstrated to you, rather a list of only the attributes you believe have been demonstrated to you directly by God. IOW, if you list an attribute and I ask, "Why do you believe that ?" you can point directly to personal experience.

 

[Colter]

What gives you certainty of this opinion?

For one, the flood story appears in their genealogy. Two, it does serve the purpose of connecting the authors, that date to Babylon, all the way back to Adam. Three, the flood story is so outrageous on so many levels that, well, it's being generous to at least attribute motives that would have served to bolster the faith of the scattered, degected Israelites. We must keep in mind, the captivity and loss of their national identity was beyond devestating for the ansestor of the Jews. I would further note, there is no secular history of the Jews, those books did not survive (even though they are referenced in the books that did) only the spectacular narratives of their scriptures were preserved.

 

[oi_antz]

We're not omnipotent. But even so, as a species we do more to try to prevent this from happening than God does.

Do we do all that we can, though? That is the really important question.

 

[Skavau]

Everyone's actions impact others, at least by way of example. Adam and Eve's attitude, belief, as a consequence of their understanding of good and evil will naturally impact anyone they know. Can you please explain what you imagine the alternative behaviour to be?

I did not know Adam and Eve. It seems to me that the only reason their actions effected others because God wanted their actions to. He allowed their disobedience to curse humanity and he then punishes us for it.

For I hungered and you gave me something to eat. I thirsted and you gave drink to me. I was a sojourner, and you extended hachnosas orchim (hospitality) to me.

36 I was naked and you gave me malbish arumim (clothing the naked). I was ill; with bikkur cholim (visiting the sick) you ministered to me. I was in the beit hasohar (prison); you came to me.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.

How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?

You shall not make idols.

How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy

How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?

Honor your father and your mother.

Generally solid but rather depends on the parents.

You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Generally solid but jealousy can be an incentive towards innovation and progression.

I do not see how most of those things help humanity.

 

[Skavau]

Do we do all that we can, though? That is the really important question.
View attachment 158826

As a species, no. As individuals? Some do. Does God have nothing for them or does he only see what they believe?

 

[oi_antz]

For one, the flood story appears in their genealogy. Two, it does serve the purpose of connecting the authors, that date to Babylon, all the way back to Adam. Three, the flood story is so outrageous on so many levels that, well, it's being generous to at least attribute motives that would have served to bolster the faith of the scattered, degected Israelites. We must keep in mind, the captivity and loss of their national identity was beyond devestating for the ansestor of the Jews. I would further note, there is no secular history of the Jews, those books did not survive (even though they are referenced in the books that did) only the spectacular narratives of their scriptures were preserved.

You are describing your belief as most likely rather than impossible, correct?

 

[LostMarbels]

I never said it did. That was not my point in bringing it up.

I've heard you communicating a message you believe to be correct. Muslims have also said similar things to me. Why should I assume that you are (or any evangelist) more likely to be correct than them?

I guess it would depend whether you wanted to know a god or THE God.

I wanted to know THE true God if there was one, and asked to be shown by the one true God his truth. I even asked him to show me a sign to let me know he heard me. Because at that point, I didn't know Jesus. But the truth is, I recognized the need for the one true God in my life, not a religion, but God. I called out honestly seeking him, wanting a relationship. He answered. I have seen and experienced the authority of God. And I submit to it, because he is God, powerful, and able to hear me. Living, loving, and vastly misunderstood. It all depends on if you actually want to find him I guess.

 

[oi_antz]

Actually, being in healthcare for over 20 years and having an advanced degree in this area, man has done quite well in dealing with disease and extending human life and improving the quality of life even with disease.

What do you think is the real reason it has not been completely resolved to the fullest extent? Less than required investment?

 

[Skavau]

I guess it would depend whether you wanted to know a god or THE God.

I have no reason to assume that you are telling me about THE God and they a god.

I wanted to know THE true God if there was one, and asked to be shown by the one true God his truth. I even asked him to show me a sign to let me know he heard me. Because at that point, I didn't know Jesus. But the truth is, I recognized the need for the one true God in my life, not a religion, but God. I called out honestly seeking him, wanting a relationship. He answered. I have seen and experienced the authority of God. And I submit to it, because he is God, powerful, and able to hear me. Living, loving, and vastly misunderstood. It all depends on if you actually want to find him I guess.

This also assumes there is only one God as well. There could be multiple Gods for all I know.

 

[Colter]

You are describing your belief as most likely rather than impossible, correct?

Yea, making sense of what survived rather than rejecting it altogether.

 

[oi_antz]

I did not know Adam and Eve. It seems to me that the only reason their actions effected others because God wanted their actions to. He allowed their disobedience to curse humanity and he then punishes us for it.

Can you describe what you have in mind, His response should have been different, that you would be more pleased by?

How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?


How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?


How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?


How would that help end child mortality and other tragedies?


Generally solid but rather depends on the parents.


Generally solid but jealousy can be an incentive towards innovation and progression.

I do not see how most of those things help humanity.

You did not ask me that question. If you had have asked m that question I would have answered differently. You asked me how God would like us to behave. So I answered that question. Does it give you greater pleasure to shift goalposts and grind your axe than to engage in meaningful conversation? It is impossible to stay on track with someone who goes all over the place like this. Please reflect on that.

 

[LostMarbels]

I have no reason to assume that you are telling me about THE God and they a god.


This also assumes there is only one God as well. There could be multiple Gods for all I know.

Well... if you want to know then ask. You keep telling me why you don't believe, and I'm stating you don't believe because you haven't asked Jesus. If you honestly want to know... ask Jesus.

 

[Skavau]

Can you describe what you have in mind, his response should have been different that you would be more pleased by?

Not cursing and blaming an entire species for the actions of two representatives of it would be fine. Just not threatening us with hell for dying in a state of non-belief would be more ethical.

You did not ask me that question. If you had have asked m that question I would have answered differently. You asked me how God would like us to behave.

I assumed that God would like us to behave in a way that helps the world. Not bog us down in pointless ritual and demanding reverence and respect for being God.

Why does God care if we worship him or hold a particular day as holy?

 

[Skavau]

Well... if you want to know then ask. You keep telling me why you don't believe, and I'm stating you don't believe because you haven't asked Jesus. If you honestly want to know... ask Jesus.

I don't believe that Jesus exists. Your advice to me is like a Muslim telling you to try and talk to Allah.

 

[oi_antz]

Did God know what this free will would deliver in man, or was he unaware of the same?

I am sure He knew. I am sure He knew that He would produce a Noah and more like him.