Dinosaurs on the Ark?

[AV1611VET]

OK, you are pointing out that you called the method "anti-Semitical", not that you called *a member* who was using that method in the conversation with you at the time on this thread "anti-Semitical" - that was in post #404. Yes, that's often an important distinction, so I give you that point - you didn't call a member "anti-Semitical". (if anyone wants to see the words used, here it is)

Thank you, Papias! You're a gentleman and a scholar!

 

[KWCrazy]

So your argument is with the theologians at the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism. So then why try to argue with them here - I don't think any of them are reading this thread.

You posted them as a reference. I pointed out that they have a credibility problem as a reference.

 

[Speedwell]

If you say, "I believe Genesis to be allegory," we might try to change your mind but in the end you have the right to your own opinion, and to accept or reject the evidence presented. If you proclaim that Genesis is allegory and the creation of man didn't happen that way then we are going to respond to what we see is an outright lie. I have my own thoughts on many things which the Bible neither confirms nor disproves, but without Scriptural backing these are only my ideas.

Remember, a lie is an intentional falsehood--so you are not responding as to a difference of opinion, you are responding as to a deliberate intention to deceive. And since you are thus branding all Christians who don't agree with you about Genesis as liars, deliberate deceivers, you might go just a little further and tell us our motive for that attempt to deceive. I would be interested to know what you think it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

And since you are thus branding all Christians who don't agree with you about Genesis as liars, deliberate deceivers,

I didn't get that impression.

 

[Papias]

[QUOTE="Papias, post: 71587465, member: 134921]"So your argument is with the theologians at the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism. So then why try to argue with them here - I don't think any of them are reading this thread. [\QUOTE]
You posted them as a reference. I pointed out that they have a credibility problem as a reference.

I posted them as a reference showing that it was not anti-semitic to use that argument, as they are Jews using that argument. I did not (and no one did) post them as a reference that their argument was correct, which is the only case in which their credibility would matter at all. This is basic logic. This is the third time it's been pointed out to you.

I can only recommend a course on basic logic at a local University. They aren't hard to find. I can look some up for you if you like, depending on what city you are near.

Best-

Papias[/QUOTE]

 

[Speedwell]

I didn't get that impression.

From KW's post:

"If you proclaim that Genesis is allegory and the creation of man didn't happen that way then we are going to respond to what we see is an outright lie."

A lie is a deliberate falsehood. We're not just wrong about Genesis, we know we're wrong and are lying about it. That is the clear meaning of the post.

 

[DawnStar]

I rejected the old earth teaching because no evidence for it could be provided through the Scriptures.

Maybe because at the time these scriptures were written they were not looking for such evidence and had no evidence to the contrary. People of that era had no reason to think otherwise.
For instance leprosy was considered incurable during that time and lepers were isolated. According to scripture, they had no reason to act or think otherwise. Thanks to science mankind can now cure leprosy. Since scripture states that lepers should be banned and isolated should we be doing that now even though we can cure it?

 

[Ronald]

Other people here are saying that dinosaurs were indeed on the ark. How do you know that they were not on the ark?

Then we would see them in the zoo, a Jurassic Park.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

I reported your actions and said closing this thread isn't going to help, as you'll just take it to another one.

You need staff action, in my opinion.

Fair enough. I await the staffs' judgement on both our actions.

However, all I did was defend myself from an insult.

 

[AV1611VET]

However, all I did was defend myself from an insult.

You have nothing to defend.

Making me out as an attacker is a cheap shot.

 

[Tutorman]

The Bible is silent on whether or not dinosaurs were on the ark. It is wrong to assume they were on the ark, just as it is wrong to assume that they were not on the ark.

Where the Bible is silent, it is wrong to assume either way.

Additionally, the Bible does not specify the age of the animals on the ark. They may have been 1 year old, they may have been 10 years old. We are simply not told.

This exactly. We have no idea about what animals were around at the time of the global flood

 

[KWCrazy]

From KW's post:
"If you proclaim that Genesis is allegory and the creation of man didn't happen that way then we are going to respond to what we see is an outright lie."
A lie is a deliberate falsehood. We're not just wrong about Genesis, we know we're wrong and are lying about it. That is the clear meaning of the post.

You are better off sticking with the original verbiage.
We are going to respond to what we see is an outright lie.
You may be wrong, but attesting that you are right and that your view is the truth when it is only an opinion reflects neither truth nor reality. You are countering the word of God, and in a tie, He wins.

 

[Speedwell]

You are better off sticking with the original verbiage.
We are going to respond to what we see is an outright lie.
You may be wrong, but attesting that you are right and that your view is the truth when it is only an opinion reflects neither truth nor reality. You are countering the word of God, and in a tie, He wins.

I have never presented my view of Genesis as "the truth" but merely as my interpretation and that of my faith tradition. I am not even trying to change your mind about your interpretation. I am explaining my own and seeking to find out why you and your "Bible-believing" colleagues are so intolerant of it.

 

[KWCrazy]

I am explaining my own and seeking to find out why you and your "Bible-believing" colleagues are so intolerant of it.

Oh, I can explain that.
I'm not susceptible to the lies of evolution. I've seen too much; learned too much. I don't have to believe in the supernatural, I've seen it close up and personal. I've seen corrupt and nasty people changed virtually overnight by the power of Christ's forgiveness. I've seen firsthand the peace that God can give those at the end of their lives. I have sought to validate an old earth and found instead that not only does the Scriptures teach a young earth, the events listed in the Scriptures are amazingly interwoven. However, there are others who are less strong in their faith; perhaps because they are new Christians or perhaps because they are young and are surrounded by teachers, professors and classmates who try on a daily basis to convince them that their Bible is wrong; that the stories are allegories.

This is the lie of our enemy and the lie against which Christians must stand for the sake of those whose faith is weak. They have to know that they can go online and find answers to the arguments the atheists and TE's throw at them. They need to know that although we are many people with many viewpoints we all worship the same unchanging God who is greater than any natural law. And so we stand together against the deception of the ungodly who pervert the words of God and convince many that maybe the creation didn't happen that way at all. In that respect we stand for you too. Put away the commentary of man and listen only to the words of God. Join us on the wall defending God's truth against man's lies.

That's why we're here.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Oh, I can explain that.
I'm not susceptible to the lies of evolution. I've seen too much; learned too much. I don't have to believe in the supernatural, I've seen it close up and personal. I've seen corrupt and nasty people changed virtually overnight by the power of Christ's forgiveness. I've seen firsthand the peace that God can give those at the end of their lives. I have sought to validate an old earth and found instead that not only does the Scriptures teach a young earth, the events listed in the Scriptures are amazingly interwoven. However, there are others who are less strong in their faith; perhaps because they are new Christians or perhaps because they are young and are surrounded by teachers, professors and classmates who try on a daily basis to convince them that their Bible is wrong; that the stories are allegories.

This is the lie of our enemy and the lie against which Christians must stand for the sake of those whose faith is weak. They have to know that they can go online and find answers to the arguments the atheists and TE's throw at them. They need to know that although we are many people with many viewpoints we all worship the same unchanging God who is greater than any natural law. And so we stand together against the deception of the ungodly who pervert the words of God and convince many that maybe the creation didn't happen that way at all. In that respect we stand for you too. Put away the commentary of man and listen only to the words of God. Join us on the wall defending God's truth against man's lies.

That's why we're here.

Wow. That's quite a statement.

I believe in evolution and take Genesis as allegory.

Yet, I am strong in my faith. I am stronger in my faith since discovering allegorical interpretation. I am neither young nor ungodly. How do you explain that?

 

[KWCrazy]

I believe in evolution and take Genesis as allegory.
Yet, I am strong in my faith. I am stronger in my faith since discovering allegorical interpretation.

Simple. You have been deceived by the lies of man. You let a well constructed and widely accepted con job override what you know to be true. Increasing complexity doesn't exist anywhere in the world. Order cannot come from chaos. Proteins cannot form from random amino acids. Man cannot be both evolved and created. God cannot be perfect and be represented by a book of mistruths. The son of God could not have been tricked into accepting allegory as fact when Christ himself walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden. Genesis isn't an allegory for anything. There would be nothing gained by creating a creation myth when there was no need to explain creation at all. You know this. Why persist in siding with the godless who believe nothing?

 

[Speedwell]

Oh, I can explain that.
I'm not susceptible to the lies of evolution. I've seen too much; learned too much. I don't have to believe in the supernatural, I've seen it close up and personal. I've seen corrupt and nasty people changed virtually overnight by the power of Christ's forgiveness. I've seen firsthand the peace that God can give those at the end of their lives.

Do you understand that everyone here agrees with you about that? This is a Christians-only forum. ALL of us are Christians. We all believe that God created the Earth and man, that man fell into sin and is in need of redemption through the life, death and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ as revealed in divinely inspired scripture.

I have sought to validate an old earth and found instead that not only does the Scriptures teach a young earth, the events listed in the Scriptures are amazingly interwoven. However, there are others who are less strong in their faith; perhaps because they are new Christians or perhaps because they are young and are surrounded by teachers, professors and classmates who try on a daily basis to convince them that their Bible is wrong; that the stories are allegories.

If a Bible story is an allegory that doesn't mean it is "wrong." The Bible is the inspired word of God, whatever the literary genre of any particular text.

This is the lie of our enemy and the lie against which Christians must stand for the sake of those whose faith is weak. They have to know that they can go online and find answers to the arguments the atheists and TE's throw at them. They need to know that although we are many people with many viewpoints we all worship the same unchanging God who is greater than any natural law. And so we stand together against the deception of the ungodly who pervert the words of God and convince many that maybe the creation didn't happen that way at all. In that respect we stand for you too. Put away the commentary of man and listen only to the words of God. Join us on the wall defending God's truth against man's lies.

That's why we're here.

To defend the Christian faith? Or to defend your particular interpretation of Genesis?

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Simple. You have been deceived by the lies of man. You let a well constructed and widely accepted con job override what you know to be true. Increasing complexity doesn't exist anywhere in the world. Order cannot come from chaos. Proteins cannot form from random amino acids. Man cannot be both evolved and created. God cannot be perfect and be represented by a book of mistruths. The son of God could not have been tricked into accepting allegory as fact when Christ himself walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden. Genesis isn't an allegory for anything. There would be nothing gained by creating a creation myth when there was no need to explain creation at all. You know this. Why persist in siding with the godless who believe nothing?

You misunderstand the science.

Also, allegory does not mean lies or mistruths. It means truths told by way of stories. There is value in allegory because it teaches us who created everything and in whose image we are created. These lessons do not require a literal interpretation nor are they precluded by an allegorical interpretation.

I ask again, though: if my faith in God and His Son Jesus is enhanced by allegorical interpretation, as opposed to a literal one, how can it be godless?

 

[Papias]

However, there are others who are less strong in their faith; perhaps because they are new Christians or perhaps because they are young and are surrounded by teachers, professors and classmates who try on a daily basis to convince them that their Bible is wrong; that the stories are allegories.
This is the lie of our enemy and the lie against which Christians must stand for the sake of those whose faith is weak.

So..... You think Billy Graham was young and weak in his faith?

"I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. ... whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man's relationship to God." -Billy Graham From his book "Personal Thoughts of a Public Man" , 1997 page 74

 

[KWCrazy]

So..... You think Billy Graham was young and weak in his faith?

No, but I believe he became much more "politically correct" as he grew older. Regardless, Graham never said evolution was true and Genesis was not. He contended that it made little difference. Graham was perplexed by the contradictions from what he read in the Bible and what the "experts" were telling him. He was never an evolutionist, but like many others believed that the earth very well could be old.

On the flip side, Ray Comfort takes it to the evolution believers aggressively. His weapon of choice; the Scriptures. So is one man of God superior to the other, or do they each have the right to be wrong? The difference is, Graham never contradicted the Bible; not ever. Whatever his doubts he never stood against what was written.