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Featured Dinosaurs never existed!

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by hiwaystar, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. coffee4u

    coffee4u New Member

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    UOTE="Brightmoon, post: 73472358, member: 407594"]Evolution denial or science denial causes direct harm. It doesn’t matter who says it . The Soviets denied for decades that natural selection occurred and refused to adapt their agricultural practices to their local climates . Millions of Russians starved to death .
    Someone on here previously mentioned baby Fae who was given a baboon heart as a transplant during the 1980s. The doctor might have had a better outcome if he’d used a chimp heart but he didn’t believe in evolution. I cried with rage when I read the newspaper reports about that case . Extreme rejection of the heart along with other problems caused the death of that child . When the deaths number in the millions due to evidence denial , it is time to fight[/QUOTE]

    That is your opinion. I believe and stand by creationism. I also try to be respectful to those who believe differently but notice the speech directed towards those of us on this side tends to be condescending. You are entitled to believe what you believe but so are we. So disagree all you like but maybe check your (general your not aimed at you in particular) tone because it is disrespectful. I didn't come onto this thread to debate evolutionists anyway but to answer the OP who thinks dinosaurs are a satanic deception.
    Natural selection is not the same as evolution. I fully believe that creatures more suitable to the climate or surroundings will flourish, what I don't believe is the dinosaurs turned into birds.
    As to poor baby Fae, I highly doubt there would be a different outcome.

    If you want to save deaths into the millions, stop abortions. Those accounted for 913,000 in the US in 2016 alone.
     
  2. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    True that.
    And if you want to stop abortions, understand that in a democracy where half of the population lives hand-to-mouth, there will never be the political ability to stop abortion unless there is already in place first a robust social welfare net, so that every one of the babies of the poor, which is about 750,000 of those abortions, and his mother, has secure housing, food, health care, child care and income for the next 26 years of his life, and the rest of her life. He needs to have a full education - and his mother will never have the means to provide it - and if she lets him live and takes care of him, that's going to be 26 years in which she is not going to have the flexibility to climb out of poverty, because of the overwhelming burdens of child care on a single parent.

    People can moraliise all they want to, but the bottom line is that abortion cannot be, and will never ever be, stopped without substantial socialistic wealth redistribution from the top to the bottom, in the form of housing, food, education and health care on a permanent basis. Otherwise, the public will always keep abortion in place as an escape from calamitous poverty and endless suffering.

    And no matter how much that is verbally abused by the Christians who disagree with it, the needle will never move until the Christians agree that piety will not save the baby, hard coded legal wealth redistribution: socialism, is the only possible way to deal with it. Everything else has been tried, nothing else has ever worked, there is nothing new under the sun. If the lives of the babies are important - and they are - then Christians have to choose what is to many of them an unpalatable legal and tax structure. It's a question of what people love most: money and power, or babies and poor people.

    BECAUSE Christian societies, at their hearts, demonstrably love money and power more than they love babies or poor people, THEREFORE we will have abortion until the end of time. We always have the power to stop it, but in democracy, the only way to stop it is to redistribute enough wealth that the poor women can afford to raise the babies, not having their bare needs met, but to have a full fair shot at society - and THAT is massively expensive.

    Evolution is small, cheap beer compared to this issue. If Christians want to save lives, accept a heavy social safety net and redistributive taxation. Otherwise admit that you serve mammon and leave off the Christian moralising, because it's completely hypocritical and the substantial majority of people see it for what it is, see right through it, and take all the steps we see to marginalise what amounts to hypocrisy and deceit in society.

    Consider: No willingness to redistribute and have a social safety network AND a desire to suppress the teaching of scientific evolution AND a relentless moral pressure to marginalise gays and non-traditional relationships. In other words greed, ignorance and fanatical puritanism: that is what people suppress - by driving it from the schools, driving it from the public square, marginalising it, and ignoring it, on all fronts.

    And they're not completely wrong.

    If Christians want to turn the tide, they have to actually surrender their belief in unregulated free market capitalism, because THAT is serving mammon. To save the babies, you MUST have socialism, Nothing else ever has, or ever will, work, and it's just more self-deception to pretend it will. Raising children is enormously expensive and requires greater stability, for a lifetime, than low-IQ people who have made mistakes and who have marginal skills can achieve. That will ALWAYS BE dependents, and if you want to stop them from killing their babies to avoid deeper poverty, then you have to provide a working class lifestyle to them, securely, for life - THAT IS THE PRICE. It's high. Those who love money more than babies will refuse to do it - and that's every society on earth, including all of the Christian ones. Until that changes, we will always have abortion on demand in this country. And we will continue to prohibit prayer in public schools, and the gay agenda will continue to expand.

    There is an old and true military adage: to defend everything is to defend nothing. Traditional Christianity has been a moral failure on matters of money and power since the Fourth Century. It has sapped the strength of the Church everywhere, and ultimately led to its apparently terminal decline in those parts of the world that have the alternative of secular science in which to believe. IF Christians were good about money and power, it would be a very powerful attractor to their religion.

    But we're not good. We tolerate slavery in various forms. We secretly consider the domination of the rich over the poor to be the natural moral order. And in this belief, which is contrary to everything Jesus taught on the matter, and contrary to the thrust of YHWH's laws for the Hebrews in the Torah as well (and no, they didn't live up to the standards either), we doom our religion to its decline.

    Catholics, for example, can crow about our traditions and lines of authority leading back to Christ, but everybody else - and many Catholics (and former Catholics) only see rolling wave after rolling wave, generation after generation, of raped boys, and make the judgment that if the structures that have propagated that and protected it do not, cannot and will not change, it would be better that the Catholic Church utterly perish from the earth, than that for another five generations of boys be raped in order to protect a deficient and unworkable power structure, EVEN IF that was the way Christ did it. Christ did it that way, and it doesn't work. Change it, or - in this democratic age - face what you face: the abandonment of the Church, it's hollowing out and eventual death. The gates of Hell may never prevail against the Church externally, but people will walk away from the Church en masse rather than let their boys be raped. That's the way it is, and ultimately the people are right.

    That's true with Christianity as a whole.

    So yes, save the babies by stopping abortion. Which MEANS wealth redistribution through taxation and the erection of a much more robust social welfare state. That's the price for saving the babies, and for saving Christianity.

    For my part, I do not believe that Catholics will give up on priestly celibacy, and that it will be upon that stubborn rock that the seeds can find no root and the Church will die out. And I do not believe that the Christians as a whole will change their unholy love of money concentrations and traditional power structures, and that Christianity will dwindle to 10% of the population as it has in Europe.

    It doesn't have to, but ultimately God is not going to protect the rape of boys, and God is not going to protect the socio-economic structures of the West either. Both things are contrary to what Jesus taught, and therefore both things are poison at the root of the Church.

    That's the way it is. How the universe got here is really small beer compared to these things. But it's a lot easier to talk about.
     
  3. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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  4. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    The hypocrisy of wanting to save babies lives and then denying common descent! Look up the Blalock Taussig Thomas shunt . You don’t hear the term blue baby anymore because that medical procedure fixes it. Instead of dying at 6 months to a year, due to heart problems, they lead normal lives. the original experiments to do the surgery was done in dogs . Dogs have almost identical hearts to humans except for size.
     
  5. coffee4u

    coffee4u New Member

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    I only brought up the number of abortions in the US per year because somehow those of us who believe in creation were being blamed for millions of deaths. It's a far stretch to say because I believe in 6 literal days that I am responsible for people deaths. I used the abortion numbers because evolution played a large part in people accepting abortion. Haekel and his falsified embryo drawings saw many people believe that humans go through some glorified evolution process as they are formed in the womb. "It's only at the fish stage now" was the kind of language people used. Even evolutionist these days know that those drawings were all falsified. At the time though they were touted as proof and fact. 'Facts' change because only God is infallible.

    Can't come soon enough for me. The rich don't pay nearly enough taxation while those of us struggling and yes that does include my family (small business) as we are barely above the poverty line. I would love to see the rich taxed more heavily. Understand I am talking about my county here I have no idea on the US except I know minimum wage there is horrible and the health care is a disgrace. One of my American friends pays $300 per month for her medication and her insurance didn't cover her local hospital? (I didn't really understand that) That is shocking to me. My mother has been in hospital here for 3 weeks now. Care is wonderful and its free. Yes, we pay in for Medicare in our taxes and it isn't perfect, but it's darn site better than the US.

    I believe evolution played a huge part in slavery by classifying people by race or colour. https://evolutionnews.org/2018/07/evolutionary-psychology-grapples-with-racism-and-anti-semitism/
    When the Nobel Prize-winning biologist James Watson suggested in 2007 that some racial groups, such as black Africans, had lower intelligence because of their evolutionary history, he faced outrage and sustained criticism.

    Point being some evolutionists think they are justified in their racial views because they believe Europeans are more 'evolved'.

    Again, this has nothing to do with believing God formed the world in 6 days and I am slightly confused how you are putting these things together. I am beginning to wonder what evolutions think us creationists believe because it isn't accurate. We believe God created in 6 days, that is it at the core. We do not believe one creature gradually turned into another creature, but that each kind was made with great gene diversity and that the fossil record was mostly created by a worldwide flood. Anything outside of that is a person's own views.

    I do take exception to experiments on animals though because much of what has gone on has been inhumane. If any experimentation is to take place it needs to be done as humanely as possible. This though does not seem to be what you are implying, the implication here seems to be you think believing in 6 days somehow equals us being against learning through experiments on animals? I am only against it if the animals were not treated with care.
    Like any group, we are not one homogenous group, same way evolutionists or any other group do not have some kind of hive mind.
     
  6. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    You have no evidence for your views . Abortion only became illegal when doctors began to take patients away from midwives. The Bible story of Ham was the justification for darker people being enslaved long before Darwin was even born. There’s also no verifiable evidence for any of the tales in Genesis being historically correct . Separate creation is a religious myth . Living organisms show common ancestry by genetics , fossils, biochemistry, developmental biology, and anatomy. Each science shows the conclusion of common descent without being corroborated by the others. But they do corroborate each other! Here’s just developmental information 8F5FFA02-688B-457E-B1CD-3FFD4F658E2D.jpeg
     
  7. Haydee

    Haydee Member

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    Dinosaurs as we call them today are mentioned in the bible in Job. If the Behemoth had a tail like a Cedar it would be quite a large beast. Job mentions both the Behemoth and the Leviathan.

    Job 40-15:18 Behold, Behemoth,
    which I made as I made you;
    he eats grass like an ox.
    Behold, his strength in his loins,
    and his power in the muscles of his belly.
    He makes his tail stiff like a cedar;
    the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
    His bones are tubes of bronze,
    his limbs like bars of iron.

    Job 41:1-34 Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook
    or press down his tongue with a cord?
    Can you put a rope in his nose
    or pierce his jaw with a hook?
     
  8. coffee4u

    coffee4u New Member

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    That Haekel's falsified embryo drawings didn't influence people? Of course they did. It made abortion acceptable to regular people because they could believe that they were getting rid of just clump of cells or a fish. https://www.newscientist.com/articl...d-embryo-illustrations-led-to-drawn-out-lies/

    The curse of Ham being upon dark-skinned people is nowhere in the Bible. Noah cursed Canaan and no mention is made of Ham's looks at all. That is a separate issue to 6 day creation. Creationism teaches that all people came from Adam and Eve. White supremacists will use the argument that black or natives or anybody not themselves are less evolved. That is directly from evolution. Race science it's called.
    There’s No Scientific Basis for Race—It's a Made-Up Label

    Morton’s “craniometry” showed, he claimed, that whites, or “Caucasians,” were the most intelligent of the races. East Asians—Morton used the term “Mongolian”—though “ingenious” and “susceptible of cultivation,” were one step down. Next came Southeast Asians, followed by Native Americans. Blacks, or “Ethiopians,” were at the bottom. In the decades before the Civil War, Morton’s ideas were quickly taken up by the defenders of slavery. Today Morton is known as the father of scientific racism.

    Inflammatory wording will not win you any points.

    Living organisms show that they were designed by the one God. The fossil record should show thousands of intermediate steps if evolution is to be believed. The displays should be full of intermediates gradually blending from one to another so that you could hardly tell where the invertebrates ended and the vertebrates began. That is what Darwin expected to find, yet he didn't and it hasn't. Organisms appear suddenly and completely. The missing links are called missing links for a reason- they are all missing.
     
  9. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to give you some list of transitional fossils, but the CF said to me that I am limited to 18000 characters.

    So, not that they "are all missing", but they are so many of them that I cannot do copy + paste of some list.

    Therefore, here are the lists:
    Transitional Fossils
    List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia
    (A few) transitional fossils
    List of transitional forms - RationalWiki
     
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  10. KomatiiteBIF

    KomatiiteBIF Well-Known Member

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    Nobody could ever really find every single fossil that exists on planet Earth. We have thousands of transitional fossils, but there are endless number of fossils in total, in the earth.

    Therefore, some are referred to as missing links, because of the impossibility to find every single fossil on the planet. At the same time though, with the thousands of transitional we have, we can still demonstrate common descent with the fossil succession.
     
  11. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    so called scientific racism was made up pseudoscience. Missing links is an ignorant laymen’s terminology for the fact that they misunderstand how transitional organisms are determined . The so called gaps in the fossil record are filled in with genetics . Developmental biology doesn’t have anything to do with Haeckel . Those are anatomically correct pictures of the juvenile “worms” all bilaterians develop from ( bilaterians-animals, including humans with a head,anus and left and right sides sometimes during their life) Also showing diploblastic animals like sponges and jellyfish .( diploblast- animal with two body layers during early development) Genetics also confirms common descent as the same genes control body formation in all bilaterians and even bacteria use some of them . The same genes control biochemistry in all organisms and we share some of those with plants. Creationists like to pretend that scientists don’t have the information that they do. If you get more detailed information about life and how it functions, common descent only gets more and more obvious. Whoever told you that evolution is being dismantled or disavowed by the scientific community, simply lied to you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  12. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    that humans and other vertebrates descended from fish is a fact. Fish have 2 skulls -an inner braincase which covers the brain and an outer skullroof that basically makes up the face. We humans have retained both of these as our skulls are derived from ectoderm ( skin forming layer) just like a fish’s and what’s left of the inner braincase sits at the top of our spines and is derived from mesoderm ( the muscle/bone forming layer which uses cartilage as a base) . That’s just one fact that demonstrates that humans share a common ancestry with fish . I could give you a lot of others but somehow I don’t think you’d be interested as you’d rather pretend common descent isn’t true.

    This is never been the justification for abortion. Pregnancy is toxic for women’s bodies and some women’s bodies cannot handle the stress of a pregnancy . Some women would rather not go through the stress of pregnancy, . The biochemical toxicity can cause anything from morning sickness to diabetes or preeclampsia to hormone induced psychosis. And then there’s going through labor. Some women cannot afford to feed themselves, let alone raise babies Some women simply don’t want children . Each answer for why a woman would terminate a pregnancy is individual. I’m quite sure it has nothing to do with the fact that human great great .....great grandparents were fish .
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  13. Debbie3832

    Debbie3832 New Member

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    I believe dinosaurs did indeed exist and I saw some of their tracks in a shallow stream in the Texas hill country. Dinosaur bones have been discovered and are on display in museums around the world. Some have been unearthed in deep ice with fresh grass still in their stomach, meaning some type of flash-freeze took place. If you look closely at alligators and crocodiles it is clear they descend from some type of reptilian creature, though on a much smaller scale, and also they haven't evolved the ability to chew food. I think the giant lizards are also descendants of dinosaurs.
     
  14. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Not two of every kind ... take two ... each after their kind. Could have been a couple of small "dinosaurs", of "their kind" that was on the ark who knows.

    Dinosaurs definitely did exist. That doesn't prove the evolution theory (how they came into existence), but they did in fact exist and to deny that is goofy.
     
  15. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    Dinosaurs existed... they lived at the same time, as the bible states, of man. There is fossils but there is not near enough transitions in the fossils to support billions of years of evolving. Bones tell you one thing.. this creature lived and died.. .They do not say what it's offspring became, how many brothers or sisters it had, if it even mated.... how old it was... just that it existed and died.

    One scientist has taken a certain type of dinosaur and shown how bones from younger to older have been used to show evolution when in fact its just the same animal at different stages of its life.

    Fossils are always assumed to me the mature beast.

    Here is a biblical account of dinosaurs and man existing at the same time:
    Job 40:15-18 King James Version (KJV)
    15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

    16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

    17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

    18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
     
  16. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Dinosaurs did exist. Scientist did their fossilized bones out of the rock deposited by the flood of Noah.
    The interesting thing is they find soft biomaterial in some of the fossils. This biomaterial should have fossilized or decayed away in 65+ MY's...but it's still there.

    Here's a great web site if you want abundant proof dinosaurs and man were once contemporaneous.
     
  19. RageOfAngels

    RageOfAngels Member

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    Are dinosaurs real? Yes, they are.
    Is Abortion morally indefensible? Yes, it is.
    Did dinosaurs exist millions of years ago? No, they didn't.

    These are my opinions. Are they right? I can only hope so.

    If they aren't then the world has just become a lot scarier to me!
     
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