Dinosaur footprints destroy flood geology.

[Danyc]

Perhaps. But I also like to avoid the Gish Gallop.

The Gish Gallop?

 

[Skaloop]

The Gish Gallop?

The Gish Gallop is a debate technique first used by the creationist Duane Gish. In this technique, he provides as many false claims as his alloted time will allow, knowing that his opponents will have to debunk each of his claims, one by one. This way, his opponents will have no time left to present their own points.

http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Gish_Gallop

 

[Chalnoth]

The Gish Gallop is a debate technique first used by the creationist Duane Gish. In this technique, he provides as many false claims as his alloted time will allow, knowing that his opponents will have to debunk each of his claims, one by one. This way, his opponents will have no time left to present their own points.

http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Gish_Gallop

Well, I doubt it was first used by him. But certainly he popularized the practice.

 

[beamishboy]

Well, I doubt it was first used by him. But certainly he popularized the practice.

But you've got to pity the Creationists. They really haven't got a leg to stand on. With so much compelling evidence, it's hard to pooh pooh everything and pretend there's no evolution. Creationists are an endangered species. Let them gish gallop away. At least we can put them on display when we need a good laugh.

 

[Chalnoth]

But you've got to pity the Creationists. They really haven't got a leg to stand on. With so much compelling evidence, it's hard to pooh pooh everything and pretend there's no evolution. Creationists are an endangered species. Let them gish gallop away. At least we can put them on display when we need a good laugh.

The thing is, I'm not so confident that ignorance will go down without a fight. A huge fraction of the citizens of the US believe in this stuff, and still more have no problem with teaching it in our schools alongside evolution. You see, science has died before due to religious extremism. And it may do so again if we are not vigilant against it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh0eM4tAISQ

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Can this geological effect be reproduced in a laboratory? (Under a smaller scale, of course.)

We can to a certain extent, most geological processes including diagenesis take long periods of time, one way we speed this up is through firing clays i.e. clays can either be classed as weak to stiff sediments or very weak rocks, but were formed when laid down as sediments.

In the act of firing we speed up the reactions of diagenesis and metamorphism to form pottery and bricks. Of course this processes is not identical, but we could take let’s say clayey sediments from an estuary containing bird foot prints, fire them in a kilm and preserve them for ever.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Below is an exposure of Permian sandstone, originally deposited in an aeolian environment (desert environment). YECs claim these are flood deposits, but they are not, proving YECs paradigms are completely wrong.

The highest (southern) part of the classic shore section at Corrie - Permian aeolian desert sandstones. Typical cross-bedding can be seen, and the sand grains are coarse and etched as found in a desert setting. This is the "doctor's bath", carved by an eccentric doctor in the early nineteenth century and complete with steps and overflow channel!

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Again Permian desert deposits proving beyond doubt that the YECs biblical flood never happened.

 

[Danyc]

Chordate, I have zero knowledge of geology myself, but could those have developed before a supposed flood happened?

 

[Baggins]

Below is an exposure of Permian sandstone, originally deposited in an aeolian environment (desert environment). YECs claim these are flood deposits, but they are not, proving YECs paradigms are completely wrong.

The highest (southern) part of the classic shore section at Corrie - Permian aeolian desert sandstones. Typical cross-bedding can be seen, and the sand grains are coarse and etched as found in a desert setting. This is the "doctor's bath", carved by an eccentric doctor in the early nineteenth century and complete with steps and overflow channel!

The Corrie foreshore on Arran, a geological classic Carboniferous to Permian , another site first described by James Hutton and teh site of my first proper Geological field trip Easter first year

happy days

 

[Baggins]

Chordate, I have zero knowledge of geology myself, but could those have developed before a supposed flood happened?

That's the problem creationists have, sections like the two above show the whole geological section can't be flood deposit, so then you have the problem of identifying a flood deposit, a world wide chaotic layer, that no one has been able to do.

That is the end of serious flood geology and it all happened 200 years ago.

 

[Tiberius]

I didn't understand a word of this.

Britian was already a sunken Island --- yet --- Britain was not cover [sic] by the flood?

I'm under the impression Britain wasn't even an island during the Flood.

I guess I'll just MYOB and let someone else handle this.

AV, if you had read it, you'd have noticed that he was pointing out a contradiction in the theory, thus illustrating that the theory must be wrong.

Britain was a sunken island at the time - yet the only way for those footprints to appear was if Britain was NOT a sunken island. Get it now?

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Chordate, I have zero knowledge of geology myself, but could those have developed before a supposed flood happened?

Well this is the point; creationists in their paradigm suggest that the flood deposits are everything from the Precambrian to K-T boundary. If this is the case then no terrestrial sediments would be found in the Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, Carboniferous, Permian, Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous.

If terrestrial sediments and associated trace fossils (burrows, foot prints, mud cracks) are found in any of these deposits, then this is overwhelming evidence that the flood never occurred, this is why geologists and other open minded people know for a fact that the YECs biblic flood paradigm is completely and utterly WRONG.

Permian red sandstone desert deposits. Terrestrial

This is a fossil tree trunk from a Pennsylvannian / Carboniferous age sandstone in southern West Virginia. The tree was apparently buried by a river splay and subsequently filled in with sand. We found roots elsewhere along this outcrop, which were also associated with this splay sand or the shale beneath it

Terrestrial

Root casts in paleosol(?), south of Mexican Hat, Utah

All terrestrial and the geological record is full of such examples; the flood never happened, it is just magical mysticism.

 

[Chalnoth]

Granted, it's not quite overwhelming evidence that the flood never occurred so much as it's overwhelming evidence that those particular layers are not flood layers. Of course, the absence of any worldwide flood layer is overwhelming evidence that the flood never occurred.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Granted, it's not quite overwhelming evidence that the flood never occurred so much as it's overwhelming evidence that those particular layers are not flood layers. Of course, the absence of any worldwide flood layer is overwhelming evidence that the flood never occurred.

Also, terrestrial deposits and trace fossils are found throughout the geological record, so no matter where the YECs say the flood occurred, there are terrestrial deposits that counter their paradigm.

CAMBRIAN

[FONT=ARIAL, VERDANA]Generalized paleogeography of Ohio and adjacent areas during late Middle Cambrian time. Arrows indicate direction of sediment deposition. The subsiding Rome trough south and east of Ohio accumulated a great thickness of Cambrian sediments. East of the Rome trough was the continental edge and the Iapetus Ocean. From Hansen (1997).

Ordovician

Ordovician Caradocian Caradocian rocks that include andesitic lavas (TERRESTRIAL), pillow lavas, ash and graptolitic shales and silts

Silurian

Black Range: Aeolian cross-bedded quartz sandstone of the Grampians Group, Black Range. Terrestrial

Devonian

Cooksonia fossil specimen Terrestrial

Carboniferous

Newhay Quarry was originally used for building stone, the Milnrow Sandstone which can be seen above as the thick yellow bed has been used throughout Milnrow and Newhay for construction. Above this, a thick coal seam can be found. These are all of the Langsettian (Westphalian A) group of the Carboniferous. Between the Milnrow Sandstone and Marine Bed, Mudstones and Siltstones yield insects and fossil tree roots (TERRESTRIAL).
​

The geological evidence for terrestrial environments right through geological time goes on and on.

It is not good enough to say we have not found the biblical flood layer of YECs, we also have to show evidence for what geologists believe, and lets face it the evidence is overwhelming, only the foolish and religiously indoctrinated would believe that the global biblical flood ever occurred.


[/FONT]

 

[Shadrach76]

i think the bible needs a really good editor to fix the mistakes.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Bird-like fossil footprints from the Late Triassic LINK

a, View of part of the lower trampled horizon, showing footprints preserved as natural moulds. Note an increase in footprint density at the upper left of the photo. Scale, 10 cm. b, Detailed view of a track preserved as a natural cast and composed of three tetradactyl footprints (arrowed). Note the high pace angulation and rotation of foot axis toward the midline. c–f Close-up of four footprint preservational variants, as natural moulds (c,d) and casts (e,f). All footprints except e correspond to the left hind limb. I to IV refer to first to fourth digit imprints. c, Deeply imprinted footprint lacking pad impressions (note remains of matrix within the footprint). d, Footprint with well-defined pad impressions and rounded ends of digit prints II to IV. Digit I shows claw mark and a single pad impression. e, Footprint with pad impressions, small rounded sole, distal curvature of lateral and medial claw marks away from the foot axis, and shallow hallux impression. Part of a second footprint is shown in the upper right corner. f, Probable undertrack that exhibits an elliptical sole and a moderately large hallucal impression. Lighting is from the top except for b, illuminated from the bottom.


Again excellent evidence for terrestrial sediments in the Triassic, gleaned from the fact that they are full of bird like foot prints.

These sediments are defiantly not biblical flood deposits. YECs are wrong again.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

New species turns up at Natural History Museum.
LINK

Insect experts at the Natural History Museum thought they'd seen it all - they do have 28 million specimens in their collection, spanning roughly half a million species.
That was until a tiny red and black bug, no bigger than a grain of rice, turned up in their own back garden.
Despite a year's efforts from specialists across Europe, the mystery insect has defied all attempts to identify it.

 

[Chalnoth]

Again excellent evidence for terrestrial sediments in the Triassic, gleaned from the fact that they are full of bird like foot prints.

But those can't be birds, right? Triassic is too old.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

But those can't be birds, right? Triassic is too old.

If you go to the link it is all explained, but yes you are right, they are not birds.