Dinosaur footprints destroy flood geology.

[Danyc]

If you took a fine swiss watch apart and put it in a bag; How many times would you have to shake it untill all the pieces fit back into their positions before you took it apart. And then how many shakes would you have to give to get all the pieces together and it also worked tic toc tic toc...
So how many times was the universe shook before one little planet called earth was born..? What are the odds. The odds dictate that there was a creator just based on percentages.......

No way, you're not seriously using the Watchmaker argument, are you? You know, the one that was debunked, say...decades ago?

Let me show you a little something about 'odds' in this situation.



Pretend I hold a 52 card deck of playing cards.

I draw 5 cards from the deck, and, without showing them to you, tell you what they are.

You don't believe me because a 2000 year-old book tells you not to. You ask:

"What are the chances of you drawing those 5 cards exactly? Almost nothing! Zero chance!"

And you would be quite right. But the distinction is-- now listen carefully, this is important-- it is not whether I drew those 5 cards, but whether I drew 5 cards at all.



To explain this analogy:

The Earth is that specific order of 5 cards, whatever they were.

A planet is any five cards, no matter what they are.


It is true, and I agree, that the chances of our earth forming are very low.

However. The chances of any earth-like bodies forming are very high.


This is because there are trillions and trillions of planet-like bodies in our universe. Sure, maybe the chances of our exact earth forming are very low. But with such a gigantic pool of opportunities, there isn't a chance in the world that one of those trillions upon trillions of planets won't be like our earth.


Take the lottery. Many will play, few will win. However, someone almost always wins. That somebody will win is never contested: the chances of there being a winner are very high. But the chances of YOU being the winner are very small.






Does that make sense?

 

[AV1611VET]

Does that make sense?

No.

Take that deck of cards --- assume that each of the 52 cards individually cannot produce a planet.

For a planet to occur, those five cards have to be drawn, and drawn in order.

This makes the odds 1 in 779,688,000 - (if I did my math right).

[5 x 52] x [4 x 51] x [3 x 50] x [2 x 49] x [1 x 48]

 

[Danyc]

No.

Take that deck of cards --- assume that each of the 52 cards individually cannot produce a planet.

For a planet to occur, those five cards have to be drawn, and drawn in order.

This makes the odds 1 in 779,688,000 - (if I did my math right).

[5 x 52] x [4 x 51] x [3 x 50] x [2 x 49] x [1 x 48]

You need to explain the analogy you're making.

Right now it makes no sense at all.

 

[flatworm]

All who seek the truth, if it is science, history, math always run right into the creator,

Actually, they don't.

Surley your are not saying that scientist seeking the truth have not found God.

Yes, that's it exactly.

that is a untrue statment called a blanket statement.

No, a blanket statement is when you make an assertion and claim it holds universally. A good example would be:

All who seek the truth, if it is science, history, math always run right into the creator,

The negation of a blanket statement is not necessarily a blanket statement, as it only requires the existence of counterexamples.

All who seek the truth by any honest means run right into the knowledge of God.

Again, actually they don't.

Now why is that...If you study percentages Math, you run right into God.

"Percentages" is not a branch of mathematics for anybody beyond the 6th grade.

If you took a fine swiss watch apart and put it in a bag; How many times would you have to shake it untill all the pieces fit back into their positions before you took it apart. And then how many shakes would you have to give to get all the pieces together and it also worked tic toc tic toc...
So how many times was the universe shook before one little planet called earth was born..? What are the odds. The odds dictate that there was a creator just based on percentages.

So, what are the odds of the earth forming as it did? What was the size of the sample you used to figure the odds?

 

[AV1611VET]

You need to explain the analogy you're making.

Right now it makes no sense at all.

Is your analogy, Dan --- not mine.

 

[Danyc]

Is your analogy, Dan --- not mine.

That's funny, because I don't remember switching around what the cards individually represented, as you did.

Now, you need to explain the analogy you're making.

Right now it makes no sense at all.

 

[Psudopod]

and standing in front of a port-a-potty?

That's the Tardis, though I suspect you guys over the pond missed out on Dr Who. Poor things.

 

[Chalnoth]

That's the Tardis, though I suspect you guys over the pond missed out on Dr Who. Poor things.

Well, not the new series, showing on Sci-Fi, which is excellent

Never saw the old one. But given from what I've heard of it from the Brits here, I seriously doubt I could get into it now.

 

[mrghost]

If one really seeks the whole truth, They will see it unless they have a hidden aggenda looking for a reason to continue in their sin and guilt. If you seek the Truth you will cross Gods path, But if you are tainted, God could be sitting right next to you and you would never see it, cause you don't want to. Your preconceived hidden aggenda is not of a pure unbiased Heart. Those who seek the Lord will find Him. If they want to, for His signature is written across billions of Stars..
And the odds are, there may exist 1000 planets like earth, with water, oxygen and life.
And this planet may have been destroyed many times because of sin, People Doing things against the wishes of the creator.....

Adam and Eve were not the first one's here.

And earth, most likely was not the first planet to be born in the Milkey Way system. And the Milkey way may not have been the first galaxy to be born either...Mrghost......Almost the Last Veteran to get Drafted during Nam. in 1969 after that the draft ended. Case closed LOL...

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

If one really seeks the whole truth, They will see it unless they have a hidden aggenda looking for a reason to continue in their sin and guilt. If you seek the Truth you will cross Gods path, But if you are tainted, God could be sitting right next to you and you would never see it, cause you don't want to. Your preconceived hidden aggenda is not of a pure unbiased Heart. Those who seek the Lord will find Him. If they want to, for His signature is written across billions of Stars..
And the odds are, there may exist 1000 planets like earth, with water, oxygen and life.
And this planet may have been destroyed many times because of sin, People Doing things against the wishes of the creator.....

Adam and Eve were not the first one's here.

And earth, most likely was not the first planet to be born in the Milkey Way system. And the Milkey way may not have been the first galaxy to be born either...Mrghost......Almost the Last Veteran to get Drafted during Nam. in 1969 after that the draft ended. Case closed LOL...

So you are one of those people that support the findings of science, but puts a caveat on the end of all scientific knowledge “GOD DID IT”.

In the light of this thread, you are in agreement them “the biblical flood is overwhelmingly proved wrong by geology”.

 

[Chalnoth]

If one really seeks the whole truth, They will see it unless they have a hidden aggenda looking for a reason to continue in their sin and guilt. If you seek the Truth you will cross Gods path, But if you are tainted, God could be sitting right next to you and you would never see it, cause you don't want to.

Oh, okay. If I truly and honestly seek the truth, I'll come to see that you're right. No, I'm sorry, that's not good enough. Try presenting an argument instead of just flatly claiming that you're right.

Because, you know, so far as I am aware, I have truly and honestly sought the truth. In fact, when it comes to these sorts of matters, the truth is all that I care about. There are certainly other things to care about in other aspects of my life, but we're talking about the nature of reality here, where none of this enters. And, in honestly seeking the truth to the best of my ability, I have come to quite a different conclusion. How can I not believe that if you honestly seek the truth, you will come to the same conclusion as I have?

The only way for there to be any resolution is to present a valid, evidenced argument for why your particular concept of god exists. Otherwise I am perfectly justified in failing to reject the null hypothesis that there is no such thing.

 

[mrghost]

So you are one of those people that support the findings of science, but puts a caveat on the end of all scientific knowledge “GOD DID IT”.

In the light of this thread, you are in agreement them “the biblical flood is overwhelmingly proved wrong by geology”.

Who said so..The great flood is even in the North American Indian Beliefs.
Geology proves the flood, There is lot's of evidence of the flood.
I work with a lot of Stones, Who said geology does not support the Great Flood, Bring forth you References....
You can prove any point you want Except for it does not exist, cause if that is the case then there are no facts to base your judgement on...Mrghost...

 

[Chalnoth]

I work with a lot of Stones, Who said geology does not support the Great Flood, Bring forth you References....

Um, basically every geologist on Earth? I think the better question is why you think that geology does support a global flood. Why do you think this? Where is the layer that represents the global flood, and why do you think it does?

 

[Molal]

Who said so..The great flood is even in the North American Indian Beliefs.
Geology proves the flood, There is lot's of evidence of the flood.
I work with a lot of Stones, Who said geology does not support the Great Flood, Bring forth you References....
You can prove any point you want Except for it does not exist, cause if that is the case then there are no facts to base your judgement on...Mrghost...

Geology does not support a global flood.......

 

[flatworm]

If one really seeks the whole truth, They will see it unless they have a hidden aggenda looking for a reason to continue in their sin and guilt.

Wow, another nonsense blanket statement. They just keep coming. People who do not believe in God do not hold their views out of a desire to be free of moral restraint. The proof is in the pudding: look at the number of atheists in prison vs. in the general population. Look at rates of divorce, crime, and other signs of social disfunction in the Bible Belt vs. the more secular states, or in the United States vs. more secular countries.

Your attempt to tar unbelievers with various character flaws (not willing to seek the truth, wishing to continue in sin and guilt) with exactly zero evidence is not just false but libellous.

If you seek the Truth you will cross Gods path, But if you are tainted, God could be sitting right next to you and you would never see it, cause you don't want to. Your preconceived hidden aggenda is not of a pure unbiased Heart. Those who seek the Lord will find Him. If they want to, for His signature is written across billions of Stars.

I seek the truth without any preconceived agenda and the signature I see across billions of stars is called hydrogen. If you want to claim otherwise then pony up the evidence.

It's funny, you accuse nonbelievers of being blinded by a preconceived agenda, so maybe you'd like to explain why you do not believe in the Norse or Greek pantheons? Why should your argument apply to specifically the God you believe in? Why only one God? Why not a Goddess? Why not a race of advanced aliens running this universe as a computer simulation?

And this planet may have been destroyed many times because of sin, People Doing things against the wishes of the creator.....

There is absolutely no evidence for this.

Adam and Eve were not the first one's here.

Well, no, because the Biblical Adam and Eve are a fable; they never existed.

And earth, most likely was not the first planet to be born in the Milkey Way system. And the Milkey way may not have been the first galaxy to be born either...Mrghost......Almost the Last Veteran to get Drafted during Nam. in 1969 after that the draft ended. Case closed LOL...

Please note that your service record does not in any way make you an authority on cosmology or metaphysics.

 

[thaumaturgy]

How about I change it to look like a cowboy with blue hair beamed down to Gotham City from NCC 1701, holding a Stratocaster, and standing in front of a port-a-potty?

Um, that's not a stratocaster. That appears to be more along the lines of a hollow-body "jazz box", more like a Gretzsch 6120SH

 

[mrghost]

I use to own one of these and I wish I still Had it. The Brand is Gretch and the Model is Nashville It comes in Bright Orange, The Blue one is a custom But still a Gretch Nashville. That Model was played by allot of Famous people. in the Fields of Rock Jazz Blues and Bluegrass and Country.It now sells for 2,500.00..When I bought one of these in 1967 it was $ 600.00..
Gretch had 4 major Models 1. The white Falcon Mike Nessmith (The Monkeys) 2. The Country Gentleman ( Chet Akins) 3. The Nashville 4. The Tenneseen 5. one Solid body edition Don't remember the name. Each Model Had a Certain Shape. and Feature.
Mrghost...

 

[mrghost]

They were killed out from the Ice age, Due to a Giant event that Covered up the Sunlight, Comet, Meteror, Volcanic, Does not matter How,
This Happened way before the Flood.
The Earth is always Changing, Contients raising and some Falling Beneath the water levels, Contients Breaking Apart and Changing up all the patterns of Evidence. The Bible is a Historical Record of the Flood, The line of Time and Decendants is listed. The Dino's Were not present at the Great flood.
If you move the evidence around it's Truth Factor takes a Hit......
In the next 100 years to come; Islands will dissapear. Contients will sink, Mabey Atlantis will rise up again.
In calif, were I grew up 30 miles from the Beach, I could dig in my back yard and find a smorgarboard of Items, That have nothing in Common to each other in the Frame of Time, Seasheels, Dino's in the Tar pits, Fossils, Water and land Creatures.
In AZ they found a Cave with furniture it it. judgeing by the deminsions, the inhabitants were 9 to 12 feet tall...There are also seashells. in AZ, NM, TX. were most likely underwater at one time for long periods of time, not the flood, way before. parts of Texas could easly slip back under the ocean. One land mass pops up; one land mass pop's down under water.
To prove or disprove the flood is Moot Point in the ever changing World. Burn them Dino's Farts in your Car, Hi-Octane...Mrghost......

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

They were killed out from the Ice age, Due to a Giant event that Covered up the Sunlight, Comet, Meteror, Volcanic, Does not matter How,
This Happened way before the Flood.
The Earth is always Changing, Contients raising and some Falling Beneath the water levels, Contients Breaking Apart and Changing up all the patterns of Evidence. The Bible is a Historical Record of the Flood, The line of Time and Decendants is listed. The Dino's Were not present at the Great flood.

At the time of whatever local flood gave rise to the legend of the Great Flood described in the Bible the "dino's" had been dead for 65 million years.

If you move the evidence around it's Truth Factor takes a Hit......

If you mean there is no "Truth Factor" in creationist "flood geology" I agree.

In the next 100 years to come; Islands will dissapear. Contients will sink, Mabey Atlantis will rise up again.

Or Numenor maybe?

In calif, were I grew up 30 miles from the Beach, I could dig in my back yard and find a smorgarboard of Items, That have nothing in Common to each other in the Frame of Time, Seasheels, Dino's in the Tar pits, Fossils, Water and land Creatures.

Nonsense. There are no dinos in the California "tar pits".

In AZ they found a Cave with furniture it it. judgeing by the deminsions, the inhabitants were 9 to 12 feet tall...

Are you sure it wasn't from the set of "The Big Comfy Couch"?

There are also seashells. in AZ, NM, TX. were most likely underwater at one time for long periods of time, not the flood, way before. parts of Texas could easly slip back under the ocean. One land mass pops up; one land mass pop's down under water.

Everything is way before the global flood since it hasn't happened yet.

To prove or disprove the flood is Moot Point in the ever changing World. Burn them Dino's Farts in your Car, Hi-Octane...Mrghost......

Are you really as incredibly ignorant as your post indicates or are you just kidding us? Please tell us you're kidding.

 

[thaumaturgy]

In calif, were I grew up 30 miles from the Beach, I could dig in my back yard and find a smorgarboard of Items, That have nothing in Common to each other in the Frame of Time, Seasheels, Dino's in the Tar pits, Fossils, Water and land Creatures.

I currently live in California about 30 miles from the beach. The reason you find dinosaurs and Tar Pit animals is because a huge amount of time is represented. Dinosaurs were from >65 million years ago and the La Brea Tar Pits preserved animals from only about 10,000 to 40,000 years ago (SOURCE).

That's why you don't find any dinosaurs preserved in the LaBrea Tar pits, they had been dead for nearly 65 million years.

Also note where in relation to each other dinosaur bones are found versus higher mammals. You don't find Dire Wolf skulls associated with dinosaur fossils.

In AZ they found a Cave with furniture it it. judgeing by the deminsions, the inhabitants were 9 to 12 feet tall...

Please provide a reference for this.

Also, do keep in mind, that in Arizona people have found great spiritual energy in the Vortexes around Sonoma. Just because it's "found in Arizona" doesn't mean it's necessarily meaningful, real or what they think it is.

There are also seashells. in AZ, NM, TX. were most likely underwater at one time for long periods of time, not the flood, way before.

Thank you for that. It is a welcome change from the usual Floodian post. I did my paleontology class project in undergraduate on a sharks tooth I found in a quarry in Illinois. But not a sharks tooth like you find in sharks today.

To prove or disprove the flood is Moot Point in the ever changing World.

Actually it's only a "moot point" if one doesn't care if data to support the Noachian Flood is ever found. In point of fact the Noachian flood should leave ample and obvious evidence for itself, and since it was what most geologists believed in when the entire field started one would think they would have found something. But alas they didn't. In fact they found so much evidence to the contrary that ultimately serious geologists abandoned the Noachian Flood in geology.

Burn them Dino's Farts in your Car, Hi-Octane...Mrghost......

Two things:

1. Gasoline comes from petroleum which, in turn, comes largely from acquatic algal and planktonic marine biota. Dinosaurs need not apply.

2. Don't keep burning them because it will ultimately run out (it is a limited resource) and it will lead to global climate change as we are seeing already in effect.

And one last thing:
My sed-strat prof back in undergrad loved Gretsch guitars. He had one I believe was a "Las Vegas" model? I don't recall for sure. I'm personally more fond of solid-body guitars, but to be fair I've never really played around on a hollow-body. I'm kind of attracted to the Gibson Casino in red. That's a fine looking guitar.

But then I usually just use my guitars and keyboards to frighten the wife and dogs, preferring to see what strange noises I can get out of them through advanced electronic processing.