Different Public Schools for Different Faiths ?

[Tuur]

I don't know--it looks like the Right is making a good try at it.

Tthe Left sics the FBI on parents who complain at school board meetings, and it's supposed to the the Right's fault.

 

[BCP1928]

Tthe Left sics the FBI on parents who complain at school board meetings, and it's supposed to the the Right's fault.

The Left doesn't get it. They don't realize that the constitutional right free expression of your religion allows that "complaints" can include physical intimidation and threats of violence.

 

[A2SG]

Tthe Left sics the FBI on parents who complain at school board meetings, and it's supposed to the the Right's fault.

Wait...we can sic the FBI on people we don't like now? Why did no one tell me about this? There's a guy down the street who uses his leaf blower early on weekend mornings when we're trying to sleep...

-- A2SG, if that doesn't call for a full scale investigation, I don't know what does...

 

[DaisyDay]

Perhaps embarrassingly, I'll admit that it didn't cross my mind that drag queen story time would be compulsory for students. Little kids tend to go along with whatever the teachers tell them or what their friends are doing, but I wasn't under the impression that it was part of the required curriculum.

You were right, it isn’t. Your previous post was ambiguously worded.

Regardless, I perceive time, energy, and tax dollars being wasted fighting over issues like this. Resources that, in my opinion, would be better invested in teaching the kids academic and practical skills. Or maybe on school supplies and better infrastructure. Parents and teachers even fight about such issues, but there's less manufactured outrage and the potential benefits are more straightforward.

Reading books to children is considered educational and highly beneficial. I agree that the lawsuits and death threats are a waste.

 

[DaisyDay]

Tthe Left sics the FBI on parents who complain at school board meetings, and it's supposed to the the Right's fault.

It’s the Right’s fault for lying about the issue to gin up outrage which sometimes manifests as death threats and physical attacks on school personnel.

 

[Tuur]

It’s the Right’s fault for lying about the issue to gin up outrage which sometimes manifests as death threats and physical attacks on school personnel.

So you deny that the FBI has not been used as a threat to silence dissent. You could just as well claim it's the Right's fault for not being progressives. That's probably closer to the truth of the matter.

 

[keith99]

So you deny that the FBI has not been used as a threat to silence dissent. You could just as well claim it's the Right's fault for not being progressives. That's probably closer to the truth of the matter.

The instances I am aware of regarding school boards were limited to veiled or clear threats made against school board members.

That is law enforcement's business.

 

[DaisyDay]

So you deny that the FBI has not been used as a threat to silence dissent.

Yes. This is a right-wing talking point and a lie, at that.

You could just as well claim it's the Right's fault for not being progressives. That's probably closer to the truth of the matter.

No, that is not correct at all unless you are claiming that it is the Right that makes death threats to school personnel regularly enough to warrant an investigation. School personnel have not only been threatened but assaulted. It is not an accident that these school board meetings have been systematically disrupted these last couple of years often over weirdly bizarre allegations.

At one point, the Proud Boys started attending and disrupting.

A drag show canceled, a pastor filmed secretly: Roseville school board meeting erupts into chaos

A Roseville Joint Union High School District board meeting abruptly ended when remarks by a self-proclaimed "Proud Boy" disrupted many of the people in attendance.

www.kcra.com

Proud Boys Regroup, Focusing on School Boards and Town Councils

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/proud-boy-derails-school-board-meeting-in-norcal-17862657.php

‘All or nothing’: NHCS, NHSCO respond to legality of Proud Boys’ masks, disruptions at board meeting | Port City Daily

NEW HANOVER COUNTY — After the right-wing extremist group, the Proud Boys, attended a school board meeting last week — with one Proud Boy member arguing with an audience member — the public has…

portcitydaily.com

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article279050039.html

See Charles Rufo.

 

[Niels]

You were right, it isn’t. Your previous post was ambiguously worded.

Reading books to children is considered educational and highly beneficial. I agree that the lawsuits and death threats are a waste.

Reading books to young children is indeed educational and beneficial for their development. I wouldn't suggest that it isn't.

Fortunately, there were always adults around who liked reading to us. The school librarian even had a Paddington Bear puppet that she brought out at story time. Parents, teachers, neighbors, older siblings, and even firefighters and police officers read to us when they visited. It was fun and no drag queens were necessary. And I don't say this out of disrespect for the drag queens themselves. There simply wasn't a shortage of people around, typically parents and educators, who were willing to read to the kids. Apparently, we were spoiled for options.

I'm glad you agree that the lawsuits and death threats are wasteful. I hate to think what you might do if you thought they weren't. As you see, I can also read absurdities into your own ambiguously worded posts, but I'd rather not. We both agree that reading to children is beneficial, and neither of us thinks making death threats is appropriate.



To be fair, I understand why some might assume that anybody who wouldn't recruit drag queens to read to kids is a right-winger or endorses groups like the Proud Boys. Rest assured, that isn't the case. An increasing number of us (the general population, not specifically Christians) are fed up with both left and right wing extremism. The way I see it, extremism poses a threat to our Western liberal values. Disagreement can be productive, as we work things through by sharing our perspectives and bouncing ideas off each other. Even if folks ultimately agree to disagree. For the best results, we need to keep it civil. Ideally, giving benefit of the doubt where there's room for misunderstanding. Yes, I'm well aware that this is an anonymous political thread on the internet and all that entails. lol

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Bottom line. If the government cannot provide an education to children and also preserve their First Amendment rights at the same time.... then they have no business being in the education business. Kids do not hang up their faith at the school door. Your rights are not for sale; they are not negotiable and are not dismissable for the "greater purposes" of the state. And under no circumstances should a child be subject to harassment and attack by state workers or policy. The state should never dismiss, suppress, or ridicule their faith.

 

[KCfromNC]

Bottom line. If the government cannot provide an education to children and also preserve their First Amendment rights at the same time.... then they have no business being in the education business. Kids do not hang up their faith at the school door. Your rights are not for sale; they are not negotiable and are not dismissable for the "greater purposes" of the state. And under no circumstances should a child be subject to harassment and attack by state workers or policy. The state should never dismiss, suppress, or ridicule their faith.

I guess we're left to imagine which, if any, of these hypothetical situations are supposed to represent the reality in actual public schools?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I guess we're left to imagine which, if any, of these hypothetical situations are supposed to represent the reality in actual public schools?

Just consider it the counter scenario where students and teachers talking about their faith in school is somehow the establishment of religion. It is not. It is normal human discussion and learning how to live with each other and their various faiths. The extreme anti-religion approach of secularists is designed to do one thing, and that is suppress and silence all expressions of faith. If we want our children to grow up "tolerant" and knowledgeable of the beliefs of others, they have to be free to openly and freely express and share without the paranoia and oppression of the secular supremacists. As it is, kids go through school thinking there must be something wrong with their beliefs. It must be dangerous, and it must be silenced. Not so. Again, if secular institutions cannot allow the free and open practice and discussion of the sundry faiths, then they need to get out of the business.

 

[BCP1928]

Just consider it the counter scenario where students and teachers talking about their faith in school is somehow the establishment of religion. It is not. It is normal human discussion and learning how to live with each other and their various faiths. The extreme anti-religion approach of secularists is designed to do one thing, and that is suppress and silence all expressions of faith. If we want our children to grow up "tolerant" and knowledgeable of the beliefs of others, they have to be free to openly and freely express and share without the paranoia and oppression of the secular supremacists. As it is, kids go through school thinking there must be something wrong with their beliefs. It must be dangerous, and it must be silenced. Not so. Again, if secular institutions cannot allow the free and open practice and discussion of the sundry faiths, then they need to get out of the business.

Yes, it's too bad. Many of us see value in such discussions and would even want to have comparative religion classes and study of the Bible as literature. But the Bible Christians won't stand for that kind of thing. They want their version of Christianity taught as the only real true one or bust.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Just consider it the counter scenario where students and teachers talking about their faith in school is somehow the establishment of religion. It is not. It is normal human discussion and learning how to live with each other and their various faiths. The extreme anti-religion approach of secularists is designed to do one thing, and that is suppress and silence all expressions of faith. If we want our children to grow up "tolerant" and knowledgeable of the beliefs of others, they have to be free to openly and freely express and share without the paranoia and oppression of the secular supremacists. As it is, kids go through school thinking there must be something wrong with their beliefs. It must be dangerous, and it must be silenced. Not so. Again, if secular institutions cannot allow the free and open practice and discussion of the sundry faiths, then they need to get out of the business.

What about the kids that *don't* want to talk about faith or religion at school?

 

[BCP1928]

What about the kids that *don't* want to talk about faith or religion at school?

That's why it should be an elective class, if offered at all. I for one, don't think much of the idea (although the Bible definitely has a place in AP literature). The subjects taught in public school are all secular in nature and I see no reason why religion should come into it at all.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That's why it should be an elective class, if offered at all. I for one, don't think much of the idea (although the Bible definitely has a place in AP literature). The subjects taught in public school are all secular in nature and I see no reason why religion should come into it at all.

Frankly I was talking about just chit chat about religion. That's what I thought that the post was about. Religion was about the last thing I wanted to be a topic of discussion at school. I'm glad my school didn't have any religious clubs (except the FCA, but I wasn't an A so it didn't matter, nor did I even realize they were present until some award night) associated with it.

 

[KCfromNC]

Just consider it the counter scenario where students and teachers talking about their faith in school is somehow the establishment of religion. It is not. It is normal human discussion and learning how to live with each other and their various faiths. The extreme anti-religion approach of secularists is designed to do one thing, and that is suppress and silence all expressions of faith. If we want our children to grow up "tolerant" and knowledgeable of the beliefs of others, they have to be free to openly and freely express and share without the paranoia and oppression of the secular supremacists. As it is, kids go through school thinking there must be something wrong with their beliefs. It must be dangerous, and it must be silenced. Not so. Again, if secular institutions cannot allow the free and open practice and discussion of the sundry faiths, then they need to get out of the business.

I can't help but notice another post which is long on rhetoric but short on the specifics of anything bad actually happening in public schools back here in reality. Is there a specific policy that is objectionable or is this just venting about, well, I don't know what?

 

[sprknjc]

That's why it should be an elective class, if offered at all. I for one, don't think much of the idea (although the Bible definitely has a place in AP literature). The subjects taught in public school are all secular in nature and I see no reason why religion should come into it at all.

As electives when I went to a public state university in Virginia before year 2000, they offered single classes in the Old and New Testaments which I took, as well as a few other faith classes in other religions other students took. Even with a Bachelor of Science degree, you were required to take a few liberal arts classes, which could be secular or religious, which I also took one in philosophy. People then in public colleges took these faith and non faith electives, open discussion between us classmates and also professors, with respect for each other and no widespread hostility on campus if you or a group believed a bit differently, Today I can only imagine the environment at public state colleges is not as favorable for people of faith. I sadly read stories from time to tine such as at Christian Post | Christian News & Commentaries students of faith even at private a bit liberal Christian colleges are faced with hosttility fron students having other than traditional man-woman preferences, though know much worse at public state colleges. If you have not, watch the movie God's Not Dead that takes place on a college campus for encouragement, but times have changed.

 

[Arcangl86]

As electives when I went to a public state university in Virginia before year 2000, they offered single classes in the Old and New Testaments which I took, as well as a few other faith classes in other religions other students took. Even with a Bachelor of Science degree, you were required to take a few liberal arts classes, which could be secular or religious, which I also took one in philosophy. People then in public colleges took these faith and non faith electives, open discussion between us classmates and also professors, with respect for each other and no widespread hostility on campus if you or a group believed a bit differently, Today I can only imagine the environment at public state colleges is not as favorable for people of faith. I sadly read stories from time to tine such as at Christian Post | Christian News & Commentaries students of faith even at private a bit liberal Christian colleges are faced with hosttility fron students having other than traditional man-woman preferences, though know much worse at public state colleges. If you have not, watch the movie God's Not Dead that takes place on a college campus for encouragement, but times have changed.

I went to a public college in the 2010s in conservative state and took classes on the Tanakh, early Christian writings (both NT and some stuff that got left out) and Buddhism, as well as a class on the history of the Middle East which necessarily went pretty deeply into Islam. It's been 10 years, but the kind of hostility you are speaking of, even in a state known as being one of the most conservative in the country, didn't exist.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I can't help but notice another post which is long on rhetoric but short on the specifics of anything bad actually happening in public schools back here in reality. Is there a specific policy that is objectionable or is this just venting about, well, I don't know what?

Have a look at our current culture, you know that "reality" you mentioned. Tell me nothing bad is happening.