Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

[Hammster]

We are saved by God's grace, through our faith, and there is nothing that we can do to cause God to owe us anything. --We owe Him everything, so why not just obey Him?

Let me know what you think, thanks.

I’m good with that. And I’m not trying to argue. Yet.

I’m only trying to make sure I understand your position since you haven’t been as clear as you think, based on your use of Matt 7, which doesn’t fit in with the above post.

So, for you, can we say that works are descriptive of someone in Christ, rather than prescriptive of someone trying to remain in Christ?

 

[Dave L]

Do you not know that Lord means Master?

To claim that Christ is your Master, you must actually be His servant: this is not rocket science, folks...

The Lord Himself asks this very question, to you:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" --Luke 6:46

So instead of maintaining a pretense, why not just submit to Him, as your Lord, to obey Him, in all that He said?

If you love Jesus, you are already submitted to him in everything you think, say, and do. If you force yourself to submit legalistically, it's a waste of time. Either you love him or you don't.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I never take it apart from chapters 6 and 8, for meaning.

From reading some of your posts on this thread, I assume you're well aware, that chapter divisions are not present in the manuscript, and, of course, are only there now for ease of referencing.

The real meaning is in the harmony of all that he's saying, otherwise, Paul's writings are the easiest to twist.

Are you implying that in chapter 7 Paul laid out a thought line in contradistinction to those of the surrounding chapters and that if you put it into that context, Paul was actually not saying what he seemed to be saying?

So, taking it in its entirely context what do you think Paul meant when he wrote,

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

 

[Religiot]

If you love Jesus, you are already submitted to him in everything you think, say, and do. If you force yourself to submit legalistically, it's a waste of time. Either you love him or you don't.

Agreed.

 

[Religiot]

Are you implying that in chapter 7 Paul laid out a thought line in contradistinction to those of the surrounding chapters and that if you put it into that context, Paul was actually not saying what he seemed to be saying?

So, taking it in its entirely context what do you think Paul meant when he wrote,

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

No.

Here's what I mean, plainly:

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." --Romans 5:19-21; 6:1-23; 7:1-25; 8:1-13

 

[Religiot]

Are you implying that in chapter 7 Paul laid out a thought line in contradistinction to those of the surrounding chapters and that if you put it into that context, Paul was actually not saying what he seemed to be saying?

So, taking it in its entirely context what do you think Paul meant when he wrote,

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

To your second question:

Paul simply spoke about the problem that is common to all men, using himself as the example, and then thanking God for the solution, Jesus Christ (Yehoshua Messiah), through Whom we can be reconciled to God, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, by Whom we can mortify the deeds of the flesh.

Our ever growing love for God, and His Son, is the work of the Holy Spirit in us, and the result of this ever growing love for God, is the ever growing hatred for sin.

The more you love, the more you hate.

Anyone who claims not to hate anything, is without love.

I hope I've answered your questions, if not, please tell me, and I will try again.

Thanks, and Godspeed.

 

[bbbbbbb]

To your second question:

Paul simply spoke about the problem that is common to all men, using himself as the example, and then thanking God for the solution, Jesus Christ (Yehoshua Messiah), through Whom we can be reconciled to God, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, by Whom we can mortify the deeds of the flesh.

Our ever growing love for God, and His Son, is the work of the Holy Spirit in us, and the result of this ever growing love for God, is the ever growing hatred for sin.

The more you love, the more you hate.

Anyone who claims not to hate anything, is without love.

I hope I've answered your questions, if not, please tell me, and I will try again.

Thanks, and Godspeed.

Paul probably was as well on his way to sinless perfection as any person ever was, or could be, when he wrote those verses. He could have written in the third person in which it would have read, as follows:

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in them, those who want to do good. 22 For they joyfully concur with the law of God in their inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of their body, waging war against the law of their mind and making them prisoners of the law of sin which is in their members. 24 Wretched men that they are! Who will set them free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand they themselves with their minds are serving the law of God, but on the other, with their flesh the law of sin.

Or he could have written in the second person which would have read, as follows:

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in you, who want to do good. 22 For you joyfully concur with the law of God in your inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of your body, waging war against the law of your mind and making you prisoners of the law of sin which is in your members. 24 Wretched men that you are! Who will set you free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand you yourselves with your minds are serving the law of God, but on the other, with your flesh the law of sin.

Or he could have even written in the first person plural which would have read, as follows:

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in us, who want to do good. 22 For we joyfully concur with the law of God in our inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of our bodies, waging war against the law of our minds and making us prisoners of the law of sin which is in our members. 24 Wretched men that we are! Who will set us free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand we ourselves with our minds are serving the law of God, but on the other, with our flesh the law of sin.

However, he chose to use the first person singular. Many seem to think that he used it merely as a rhetorical method when, in reality, he was so sanctified that it really did not reflect his actual relationship in Christ and that what he was merely doing was providing a helpful device for some who might be struggling with sin. That is rather peculiar given the fact that this same Paul sternly rebuked sin both in Romans and in his other letters.

It makes much more sense to me to take it at face value in its context that Paul really and actually meant what he wrote. After a lifetime of intimate and daily fellowship with God he remained a vile sinner whose only hope was the justification offered through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[GenemZ]

Sir, I simply agreed strongly with the comment, which included in the preface an exhortation to tolerance...

I personally regard myself as no one, that's why I refuse to appeal to myself in anyway.

In case you feel that you can despise me for perceived immaturity, I'll caution you with the following:

I do not despise immaturity in a Christian. Its a normal part of the process of growing.

Its when one who is yet immature presumes a position to be an authority on a matter, and deflects answers when they come. This becomes a battle of setting up a wall against truth that would lead to a little bit more growth towards maturity in the one who comprehends and receives it.

Its often times the other way around. Its those who needing to grow despising someone with answers that they have not thought of on their own. Wrong answers which they are determined to glory in and seek others to bond with.

We must learn humility if we are to have developed spiritual self esteem. Spiritual self esteem which human self esteem conflicts with.

Spiritual self esteem comes from being corrected by the Word of God. For God's ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. If I refused answers from those God has brought my way?
I would have resented them. For some of what the Word of God reveals when presented accurately and with understanding made me feel stupid and deceived for what I was naturally inclined to believe.

When we read the Word and go towards what we naturally are inclined to think? We easily end up transforming Christ into our image. That is why we see so many denominations today.

When an immature believer gets a notion and he finds a sense of human self esteem in it? Conflicts arise..

In a nutshell. That's why we see so many conflicts. Its why Jesus told his disciples that if anyone wants to follow Him they will need to deny self and take up their own cross. For when we find ourselves being corrected by accurate understanding? An old natural way of thinking (something we were even sure about) DIES!

Its fear inducing when that happens."How could I be so stupid and yet sure of myself?"

For the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." Prov 9:10

God's Word when properly taught must make us to feel stupid at times. That causes fear in not knowing how we can know anything. Pride either kicks in and fights it by piling on more and more false applications of Scripture to resist... Or, we surrender. Realizing we need to start our life all over again in that area.

Very few are qualified to teach with great accuracy. Yet, we have with us today many teachers having things to teach to reinforce the thinking of those who want to transform Jesus Christ into theor own image.

Very few are qualified to teach what is needed to bring others to maturity. James 3:1.

Yet many believers will prefer instead a great number of teachers who say things to reinforce their desire for their own erroneous way of thinking. 2 Timothy 4:3

There you have it. Without humility God will not supply the believer the enabling grace power needed to grasp what is needed to be known and understood from God's Word to reach true maturity in Christ. James 4:6

Jesus also said... "Few find it." Just like only a few teachers will be genuinely presenting God's will.

If only ten were found in Sodom? It would have remained. Only a few find it.

 

[Religiot]

Paul probably was as well on his way to sinless perfection as any person ever was, or could be, when he wrote those verses. He could have written in the third person in which it would have read, as follows:

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in them, those who want to do good. 22 For they joyfully concur with the law of God in their inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of their body, waging war against the law of their mind and making them prisoners of the law of sin which is in their members. 24 Wretched men that they are! Who will set them free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand they themselves with their minds are serving the law of God, but on the other, with their flesh the law of sin.

Or he could have written in the second person which would have read, as follows:

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in you, who want to do good. 22 For you joyfully concur with the law of God in your inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of your body, waging war against the law of your mind and making you prisoners of the law of sin which is in your members. 24 Wretched men that you are! Who will set you free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand you yourselves with your minds are serving the law of God, but on the other, with your flesh the law of sin.

Or he could have even written in the first person plural which would have read, as follows:

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in us, who want to do good. 22 For we joyfully concur with the law of God in our inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of our bodies, waging war against the law of our minds and making us prisoners of the law of sin which is in our members. 24 Wretched men that we are! Who will set us free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand we ourselves with our minds are serving the law of God, but on the other, with our flesh the law of sin.

However, he chose to use the first person singular. Many seem to think that he used it merely as a rhetorical method when, in reality, he was so sanctified that it really did not reflect his actual relationship in Christ and that what he was merely doing was providing a helpful device for some who might be struggling with sin. That is rather peculiar given the fact that this same Paul sternly rebuked sin both in Romans and in his other letters.

It makes much more sense to me to take it at face value in its context that Paul really and actually meant what he wrote. After a lifetime of intimate and daily fellowship with God he remained a vile sinner whose only hope was the justification offered through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

I truly love how you broke it all down: it makes such a controversial topic much easier to understand, thank you.

Unfortunately, I do object strongly to your conclusion.

1. Faith alone is dead.

2. Christ is not alone, nor did He advocate Himself, but His Father: eternal life is to know God, and Jesus Christ, whom He sent. The knowledge of the correlation between Father and Son is how we can understand, and appreciate, the Gospel.

3. Paul's writings, like the rest of the scriptures, must be taken in harmony with the whole of what God said.

I think my points are well made in my other posts on this thread, please reconsider them, thank you.

 

[Religiot]

I do not despise immaturity in a Christian. Its a normal part of the process of growing.

Its when one who is yet immature presumes a position to be an authority on a matter, and deflects answers when they come. This becomes a battle of setting up a wall against truth that would lead to a little bit more growth towards maturity in the one who comprehends and receives it.

Its often times the other way around. Its those who needing to grow despising someone with answers that they have not thought of on their own. Wrong answers which they are determined to glory in and seek others to bond with.

We must learn humility if we are to have developed spiritual self esteem. Spiritual self esteem which human self esteem conflicts with.

Spiritual self esteem comes from being corrected by the Word of God. For God's ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. If I refused answers from those God has brought my way?
I would have resented them. For some of what the Word of God reveals when presented accurately and with understanding made me feel stupid and deceived for what I was naturally inclined to believe.

When we read the Word and go towards what we naturally are inclined to think? We easily end up transforming Christ into our image. That is why we see so many denominations today.

When an immature believer gets a notion and he finds a sense of human self esteem in it? Conflicts arise..

In a nutshell. That's why we see so many conflicts. Its why Jesus told his disciples that if anyone wants to follow Him they will need to deny self and take up their own cross. For when we find ourselves being corrected by accurate understanding? An old natural way of thinking (something we were even sure about) DIES!

Its fear inducing when that happens."How could I be so stupid and yet sure of myself?"

For the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." Prov 9:10

God's Word when properly taught must make us to feel stupid at times. That causes fear in not knowing how we can know anything. Pride either kicks in and fights it by piling on more and more false applications of Scripture to resist... Or, we surrender. Realizing we need to start our life all over again in that area.

Very few are qualified to teach with great accuracy. Yet, we have with us today many teachers having things to teach to reinforce the thinking of those who want to transform Jesus Christ into theor own image.

Very few are qualified to teach what is needed to bring others to maturity. James 3:1.

Yet many believers will prefer instead a great number of teachers who say things to reinforce their desire for their own erroneous way of thinking. 2 Timothy 4:3

There you have it. Without humility God will not supply the believer the enabling grace power needed to grasp what is needed to be known and understood from God's Word to reach true maturity in Christ. James 4:6

Jesus also said... "Few find it." Just like only a few teachers will be genuinely presenting God's will.

If only ten were found in Sodom? It would have remained. Only a few find it.

Why haven't you replied to my response to you in post #61?

 

[Hammster]

Why haven't you replied to my response to you in post #61?

That’s a good one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you love Jesus, you are already submitted to him in everything you think, say, and do. If you force yourself to submit legalistically, it's a waste of time. Either you love him or you don't.

Jesus said in John 14:15 if you love me, keep my commandments.

Yes, a person cannot truly obey or love God unless they are born again spiritually, and they have a pure love for the Lord, but if there love is true, they will seek to keep His commandments. That's the test of their love. If they are not seeking to keep His commandments, then they do not love Jesus.

Most today think you can disobey God's commands on some level and still be saved. However, that's not how things work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No one can earn salvation, the mere suggestion is absurd.

We are saved by God's grace, through our faith, and there is nothing that we can do to cause God to owe us anything. --We owe Him everything, so why not just obey Him?

Let me know what you think, thanks.

Well, at one point time, I used to be confused on this topic because of Protestant churches or the majority evangelical view on Salvation. But not anymore. There are two main aspects or stages of salvation for the believer. Justification (God's grace), and Sanctification (Holy living). For according to the Bible: The salvation process includes both:

#1. “God's Grace through faith in Jesus Christ and the gospel” (Note: The gospel is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) (This is the 1st aspect of salvation without the deeds of the Law) (Initial and Ultimate Salvation) (Note: This can include seeking forgiveness of one's sins with a godly sorrow by way of prayer towards the Lord Jesus Christ, as well) (Note: I believe Paul and some of the other apostles fought against Law Alone Salvationism (without God's grace) via by the 613 Laws of Moses - See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

#2. “Sanctification by faith” (Living Holy by God's power) (This is the second aspect or stage of salvation) (This is putting away sin, doing good works, and living holy in this life) (This is following the commands that come from Jesus, and His followers, and this is not following the 613 Laws of Moses, things like the Saturday Sabbath, holy days, circumcision, and the dietary laws are no longer in effect anymore). In my study of the Scriptures, I discovered that there are three verses that say we need both Justification and Sanctification as a part of salvation (See: John 5:24, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and James 2:24). I have also discovered a long list of verses that teach that we need to live holy as a part of salvation, as well.​

Granted, we are saved ultimately by God's grace and not works because if we happen to stumble into a sin unintentionally, we need to confess of that sin to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of that sin (i.e. God's grace) (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Luke 15:18-21, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 10:13, Hebrews 4:16). Only his grace and forgiveness can cleanse us of sin.

While we cannot earn salvation (in the sense like trading dollars for hours sort of like at a job), we do have to maintain our salvation by continuing in both Justification (God's grace through faith), and moving on or continuing in the Sanctification Process (Which is living holy only by the power of God working in us to do good according to His Word). We have a free gift, but we have to maintain that free gift by being responsible with it.

For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Religiot]

That’s a good one.

LOL!!!

Brother, I'm truly sorry, but I did forget!

You know, I simply started thinking about it while responding to others, and I simply imagined that I had answered you, but, of course, I did not! Thanks for the reminder, it was truly a good one, lol.

Brother, I think perhaps a series of loaded questions from me will help me to reconcile what I perceive to be our difference, so please bear with me as I ask you some questions, and please bear with some of the delays in my responses--unless I forget.

First loaded question:

Which of these two resembles Jesus (Yehoshua) the most, a house or a jail?

 

[Phil W]

And they weren’t ever saved. Which is my point.

I agree with your point.
Until they repent of iniquity, permanently, they will have no hope of salvation.

 

[Hammster]

LOL!!!

Brother, I'm truly sorry, but I did forget!

You know, I simply started thinking about it while responding to others, and I simply imagined that I had answered you, but, of course, I did not! Thanks for the reminder, it was truly a good one, lol.

Brother, I think perhaps a series of loaded questions from me will help me to reconcile what I perceive to be our difference, so please bear with me as I ask you some questions, and please bear with some of the delays in my responses--unless I forget.

First loaded question:

Which of these two resembles Jesus (Yehoshua) the most, a house or a jail?

Since I have no context, I cannot answer.

 

[Religiot]

Since I have no context, I cannot answer.

When someone enters Christ, is He like a home, wherein the person is free to go, or is He like a prison, wherein the person is not free to go.

 

[Religiot]

Since I have no context, I cannot answer.

Okay, More Context:

Is Christ like a new home, that you have freely chosen to enter, and are free to leave, if you so desire?

OR

Is Christ like an old prison, that you were made to enter, and are not free to leave, no matter what you tried?

I truly believe the answer to this loaded question will show exactly where our difference lies.

 

[Hammster]

When someone enters Christ, is He like a home, wherein the person is free to go, or is He like a prison, wherein the person is not free to go.

I’d say a home. But that’s possibly going to have a different meaning for me than it does for you. And there is other theology to consider.

It probably would have been best for you to just answer my post plainly.

 

[John Helpher]

Do you not know that Lord means Master?

To claim that Christ is your Master, you must actually be His servant: this is not rocket science, folks...

The Lord Himself asks this very question, to you:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" --Luke 6:46

So instead of maintaining a pretense, why not just submit to Him, as your Lord, to obey Him, in all that He said?

Most people understand that it's important to at least say the right thing. They will agree that obedience and faithfulness is important. The trick always comes when we talk about what Jesus told us to do. What are his commands to his followers?

For example, did you know Jesus said we should not use special titles of flattery for one another like Father, Sir, Mr, etc? He said we're all brothers (and sisters) with the same father and that people who use these special titles for one another do so as a way of flattering (or exalting) themselves one above the other. He concluded that people should, instead, humble themselves (i.e. by not using these special titles).

Most professing Christians in the world today think this is very foolish. They have many reasons for why Jesus didn't really mean this, for why it really is okay to continue using the special titles of flattery, so long as you believe the best about your intentions for doing so. In other words, in order to justify using the titles, you must believe you are a good person for doing so.