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Featured Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Religiot, May 23, 2020 at 1:22 PM.

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  1. Religiot

    Religiot Member

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    Do you not know that Lord means Master?

    To claim that Christ is your Master, you must actually be His servant: this is not rocket science, folks...

    The Lord Himself asks this very question, to you:

    "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" --Luke 6:46

    So instead of maintaining a pretense, why not just submit to Him, as your Lord, to obey Him, in all that He said?
     
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  2. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Okay.
     
  3. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    I’m a bondservant. I enjoy my fetters. I have a deep regard for surrender. He nurtures it through holiness and holy work. Both enrich my spirit.

    But I had the same disposition when I wasn’t a believer. I directed my passion and surrender to other areas. Now its yielded to Him.

    I don’t believe submission comes easy for most. I don’t believe you can say ‘just do it’. It isn’t that simple. Obeisance is a process. The acquiesce doesn’t happen overnight. You lower gradually.

    ~Bella
     
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  4. .Mikha'el.

    .Mikha'el. Mod Queue Spam Troll Banner Extraordinaire! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Explain to me why you would post a thread like this in this section? I don't see why it would qualify as controversial.
     
  5. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    True. We go from acquiescence to assent. So while we "receive the word with all gladness" it takes awhile to strap on the yoke.
     
  6. Religiot

    Religiot Member

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    The controversy is spelled out by the Lord:

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." --Matthew 7:21-23

    It is because there are so many who claim Messiah as Lord, but deny obedience to Him, that there is such a great controversy: this is a common theme amongst those who profess faith in Christ: this faith without works is the prevailing doctrine preached today; wherefore it is truly a matter of great controversy.
     
  7. TLSITD

    TLSITD Conservative Christian

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    Why not?

    Well because...
    • I'm "free" in Christ to do what I will as long as I have good intentions
    • Obedience to all of Christ's commandments is "legalism"
    • I believe that the love of God is warm feelings and not what God says the love of Him is
    • I'm still the master of my life; Jesus Christ is just my "co-pilot"
    • I don't understand that the grace of God is the God-given power and desire to obey God, not an excuse not to obey Him
    • I don't really care what the Lord's will is
    • I don't even read the Bible. I don't know what it says
    • None of the Christians I know are that concerned about obeying the Lord in all things, so why should I be?
    • A loving God wouldn't want to burden me with His rules; He just wants me to be happy

    There are probably other reasons/excuses, but remember this: Jesus' yoke is easy and His burden is light because of grace: He is on one side of the yoke and we on the other, so that we can do what God desires us to do, which we couldn't by ourselves.

    God's commands are not a "burden" to the one who has the Spirit of Christ to help him or her and whose mind has been renewed by God to think and desire as He does. (They are a "burden" to the one whose heart is still set on himself and the things of this world.)

    Bonus: The original Greek word translated as "servant" by English translators is actually "slave", as in a person who is the property of his master. We are not our own. If you're living as though you are, you're falling short of God's will and receiving His powerful grace in vain.
     
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  8. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Servant is a better rendering of the Greek word (there are three definitions). The term slave conjures up some pretty onerous images for us in the West.
     
  9. TLSITD

    TLSITD Conservative Christian

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    Whether it conjures up unpleasant images for us or not is irrelevant to the appropriateness of the word translated. A person who has been bought and who belongs to someone else as their property is a slave.

    Jesus Christ is not a cruel slave master and His slaves are people who have been mercifully delivered from the cruel slave master, Satan, and from bondage to sin, with its terrible reward.

    The Greek word translated as "respect" by English translators in the verses about wives being subject to their husbands (who are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church, to the laying down of His life) is not "respect" either, but "fear"---as in the fear of being punished by God for not submitting to the authority He has put over them.

    That translation would undoubtedly be offensive to many Christians, like the word slave is, but it still is what it is.

    (We should strive to understand the true meaning of Scripture and God's intentions in what is written instead of altering words to make ourselves feel better because we don't see things from His perspective as we ought.)
     
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  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    There were very few actual "slaves" i.e. literally owned by another in the NT narratives. Most were hired servants.
     
  11. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Matthew 7:21

    Berean Study Bible
    Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

    Psalm 119:11
    I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.

    Psalm 119:105
    Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

    Psalm 119:18
    Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law.

    James 1:22
    But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

    Proverbs 2:1-5
    My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

    Revelation 1:3
    Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

    2 Timothy 3:16

    All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

    Ephesians 6:17
    And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,

    Matthew 4:4
    But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
     
  12. TLSITD

    TLSITD Conservative Christian

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    That's irrelevant to the fact that Christians are literally owned by Jesus Christ, body and spirit, purchased with His own blood, to live no longer for themselves but to do the will of God. So yes, "slave" is the appropriate term for our relationship to Him.

    I'm a black American with ancestors who were slaves and I don't have a problem distinguishing the cruel form of human slavery that was used against my ancestors from the slavery of love, mercy and salvation to my Lord. If anyone ought to be offended by the term slave it should be a descendant of slaves, and I'm not offended by it in the slightest. I am proud and blessed to be a slave of Christ, just as the apostle Paul was.
     
  13. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    It can happen "overnight".
    If one is sorry enough for their past sins.
    It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
    A "turn from" sin is immediate...or it is false.
     
  14. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    I feel well treated by God and by Jesus, not at all like a slave but like a valued servant. Also God and Jesus are more concerned about me than you might think. Sacrificing yourself for another is a zero sum game. I try to do things so that everyone wins, including myself. To me that is a true servant. The bible translators chose rightly the term servant. Who are we to argue with them.
     
  15. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Repentance from sin is basically obedience to the ten commandments. Conversion is what the new covenant is all about. This might take a lifetime to accomplish (old habits die hard). Abstaining from evil is just the first baby step toward doing good.
     
  16. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    You operate in submission in every area of your life? You obey without question or hesitance?

    ~Bella
     
  17. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    A good servant doesn't need supervision, especially one who does their job better than is required and more than he or she is being paid to do (one of my success methods). ;)
     
  18. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    Exemplary servants are self-correcting. The best anticipate the other’s needs before they ask. They learn their habits and they’re meticulous. The majority are deferential (towards the one they serve) without hesitance or complaint. They view their position from a place of honor and trust. Their submission isn’t a gift. Its a privilege to serve him. ;)

    ~Bella
     
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  19. TLSITD

    TLSITD Conservative Christian

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    The term slave only has negative connotations if it applies to human slavery, not to the love slavery of Christians to Jesus Christ.
     
  20. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    Or to Jesus' two commandments.
    But if it is a real repentance from all sin, it can be permanent.

    If the person doesn't change from being a sinner to a non-sinner, there wasn't any conversion.

    Those old habits will die with the death of the flesh.."with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
     
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