Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

[Religiot]

As for Fred Carter: Again, if you believe Fred Carter has been wronged, then why is Fred said to be a long time friend of Jack Chick on the website? Why hasn't Fred Carter spoke up against this kind of thing in the past in his being wronged? Do you know that artists for Hallmark cards on most greeting cards do not have the name of the artist or artists who worked on them? Instead it has the company name on it (i.e. Hallmark). Do you think the artists there are upset because it has the name Hallmark on the card instead of their own name? Fred Carter willingly worked for Chick Publications. We did not see him quit on the account of his artwork being supposedly plagiarized. We did not see him speak out against Jack Chick and how he was wronged. Fred is said to be a lifelong friend of Mr. Chick. It's only you who says otherwise. Perhaps maybe somebody who wants to discredit Jack Chick's work and what he has done for the Lord is making stuff up. Again, I did a Google search and found nothing of what you said. If you can maybe provide a link for us to see?

As what is the norm with you, the obvious eludes you:

...My point exactly... ...can't you see, that it is by your definition that Mr. Chick is a plagiarist, and in-fact he is, for he passed off Mr. Carter's work as his own, for decades, for the tracts all bear his name.

You falsely equivocate Hall Mark with Jack Chick.

--If the tracts solely bore the name Chick Publications, then it would've been okay, but they don't, they bear his initials as the signature, without credit to anyone, but himself, without any distinction from one tract to the other; leading any reader to conclude that Mr. Chick was always the artist: this is simple plagiarism, regardless of Mr. Carter's acquiescence.

ONLY WHEN DAVID W. DANIELS TOOK OVER, DID CREDIT TO THE ACTUAL ARTISTS COMMENCE.

Fred Carter remains loyal to Jack Chick, and Chick publications--he never held Jack Chick's ACTUAL plagiarism as an offense, nor would he even consider it plagiarism, though it is in fact plagiarism, by any definition.

I don't care that you continue to pretend not to understand.

I don't care that you continue to pretend that the tract I'm promoting is not produced anonymously.

I don't care that you continue to twist most of what I have ever said to you.

What I really care about is simply exposing your version of obedience as fraudulent, like your arguments against the tract I'm promoting.

Your pretense at misunderstanding will not provide you with any excuse before God, for everyone will have to answer to Him with Whom they have to do.

So just keep it coming, cause my answers are no longer for you, but for the defense of what is true.

 

[Religiot]

You said that Fred Carter's name is now added to his tracts.
This is not true in regards to “It's Your life.” We can still see the COMPANY NAME .... Jack T. Chick LLC. (on the inside) or J.T.C. on the cover of the tract created by Fred Carter. So it seems you have bought into a lie from what somebody said (based on lies or half truths).

You continue to pretend that I didn't say that Mr. Carter's name did not start to appear on the tracts he illustrated until after Mr. Chick's death.

Anyone following this conversation will see your pretense.

You ignore--at this point, deliberately--that in order for an action to constitute plagiarism, it requires that someone else's work, be passed off, as one's own.

You also ignore--at this point, deliberately--what the fair use laws say about infringement.

And you also ignore--at this point, deliberately--all that I've told you concerning your false allegations against me, this thread, and the tract I'm promoting.

But above all, you have ignored, deliberately, what I have shown you from the scriptures, concerning your false conclusions about baptism, and the Lord's commands.

May God grant you repentance, in the name of Yehoshua Messiah. Amen.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You continue to pretend that I didn't say that Mr. Carter's name did not start to appear on the tracts he illustrated until after Mr. Chick's death.

Anyone following this conversation will see your pretense.

You ignore--at this point, deliberately--that in order for an action to constitute plagiarism, it requires that someone else's work, be passed off, as one's own.

You also ignore--at this point, deliberately--what the fair use laws say about infringement.

And you also ignore--at this point, deliberately--all that I've told you concerning your false allegations against me, this thread, and the tract I'm promoting.

But above all, you have ignored, deliberately, what I have shown you from the scriptures, concerning your false conclusions about baptism, and the Lord's commands.

May God grant you repentance, in the name of Yehoshua Messiah. Amen.

I tell you what. You talk to a copyright lawyer, and have him contact me on the forums by PM if he agrees with you. Talk to Fred Carter, and see if he agrees with you. If he does, have him contact me by PM also on the forums if he agrees with you. Until then, you are living in a fantasy world of your own imagining.

 

[Religiot]

I tell you what. You talk to a copyright lawyer, and have him contact me on the forums by PM if he agrees with you. Talk to Fred Carter, and see if he agrees with you. If he does, have him contact me by PM also on the forums if he agrees with you. Until then, you are living in a fantasy world of your own imagining.

Amazing: after what I said in post #881: Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!
--you still said the above... Post #881 is immediately preceding my last post, yet here you are, pretending as if it doesn't exist, lol, this is just incredible!

Are you even reading my posts?

I've gotta ask, because your present responses grow even more detached from what I'm actually saying, than your previous responses.

I must confess, I've never had such a pretentious conversation go for so long: usually the pretender signs off, permanently, but you, you just keep going, pretending more and more, as if no one else is really going to read this...

Now, I must admit, that since you've been on this forum for so long, you may very well know that not many other people will see this, especially on such a long thread, that had already been shutdown once; so I could be the fool here after all, because I'm hoping that others will see your pretense, and realize by it, that what you are teaching about obedience is as false as the claims and arguments you've been making in this conversation.

I pray, by the grace of God, that your false teachings about obedience be further exposed by this conversation, in Yehoshua's mighty name. Amen.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amazing: after what I said in post #881: Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!
--you still said the above... Post #881 is immediately preceding my last post, yet here you are, pretending as if it doesn't exist, lol, this is just incredible!

Are you even reading my posts?

I've gotta ask, because your present responses grow even more detached from what I'm actually saying, than your previous responses.

I must confess, I've never had such a pretentious conversation go for so long: usually the pretender signs off, permanently, but you, you just keep going, pretending more and more, as if no one else is really going to read this...

Now, I must admit, that since you've been on this forum for so long, you may very well know that not many other people will see this, especially on such a long thread, that had already been shutdown once; so I could be the fool here after all, because I'm hoping that others will see your pretense, and realize by it, that what you are teaching about obedience is as false as the claims and arguments you've been making in this conversation.

I pray, by the grace of God, that your false teachings about obedience be further exposed by this conversation, in Yehoshua's mighty name. Amen.

 

[Phil W]

Phil, I've asked you before, have you sinned since the posting of this thread?

If not, would you please explain how you maintain that.

Thank you.

We need to go to PM-ing to further our discussion as House rules preclude talk of perfect sinlessness.

 

[Religiot]

We need to go to PM-ing to further our discussion as House rules preclude talk of perfect sinlessness.

Okay, no problem.

I'll await your response, thanks.

 

[Phil W]

1 John 5:16-17 talks about a sin that does not lead to death.
So there is such a thing that exists as I stated already.
We also do not see Paul condemned by God when he disobeyed the warning of the Spirit in not going to Jerusalem, as well.



I was converted the moment I accepted Christ. I was not even aware of baptism until many, many years later in my Christian life; Yet, I was changed spiritually and on fire for God and His Word was alive to me (Whereas it was a dead book to me before I accepted Christ). Water baptism did not change me when I did it many years later in my faith. I did not recognize a new change in my life as a result of being water baptized. I was already changed and enlightened to the things of the Lord when I accepted Jesus as my Savior (many years before), and I believed that He died for my sins, and He was buried, and He was risen for my salvation. I used to be an atheist, and when I accepted Jesus, it was like a light had went on inside of me in 1992. I was not baptized until 2013. But I now regard water baptism as an OT covenant ritual that is optional for the believer. Whenever you see the word “baptism” in the Bible, most likely you instantly think of water. I know. I used to think that way until I started to think outside the box of beyond what most in the church teach these days. I started to truly look at what Scripture was really saying vs. what I wanted them to say. But if you are not open to it, you are never going to see it.

Side Note:

I also was water baptized in a church that appeared to be for Once Saved Always Saved or a form of Belief Alone-ism. I was not aware of this fact until AFTER I was water baptized. If water baptism was something that would truly matter in my walk with God, I would need to find another group of believers who at least has the same view on Soteriology that I do. At the time, I really was looking for the right followers to be baptized by. Today, it just seems like we are in a spiritual wasteland. Nobody truly wants to follow the Lord and or take His Word seriously. The thing is that I was praying to find the right place to be water baptized. I did not find it. Why? Because I believe it is not an essential requirement to be changed by God and to be initially saved.



Then why did Cornelius and his family receive the Spirit before he was water baptized?

As for repentance: Well, many in the popular circles of Christianity today just blindly follow what other teachers say these days instead of them searching the Scriptures to see what they say instead. Some follow the teachings by others that repentance means to forsake sin and some follow the teachings by others that says that repentance is having a change of mind from one's old way of thinking.

After an extensive study of the Scriptures with God, here is...

My Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follows true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.​

Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance:
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

The only sins that don't lead to (second) death are those we repent of permanently.

 

[Phil W]

1 John 5:16-17 talks about a sin that does not lead to death.
So there is such a thing that exists as I stated already.

The only sins that don't lead to (second) death are those we repent of permanently.

We also do not see Paul condemned by God when he disobeyed the warning of the Spirit in not going to Jerusalem, as well.

Paul did exactly as God ordained.
He ended up bringing the gospel to Rome.

I was converted the moment I accepted Christ. I was not even aware of baptism until many, many years later in my Christian life; Yet, I was changed spiritually and on fire for God and His Word was alive to me (Whereas it was a dead book to me before I accepted Christ). Water baptism did not change me when I did it many years later in my faith. I did not recognize a new change in my life as a result of being water baptized. I was already changed and enlightened to the things of the Lord when I accepted Jesus as my Savior (many years before), and I believed that He died for my sins, and He was buried, and He was risen for my salvation. I used to be an atheist, and when I accepted Jesus, it was like a light had went on inside of me in 1992. I was not baptized until 2013. But I now regard water baptism as an OT covenant ritual that is optional for the believer. Whenever you see the word “baptism” in the Bible, most likely you instantly think of water. I know. I used to think that way until I started to think outside the box of beyond what most in the church teach these days. I started to truly look at what Scripture was really saying vs. what I wanted them to say. But if you are not open to it, you are never going to see it.

How did you account for the death of your flesh without baptism into Christ's death?

Then why did Cornelius and his family receive the Spirit before he was water baptized?

It was a one time event to shock the visiting Jews.
And Cornelius and friends were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins pretty soon after they received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

As for repentance: Well, many in the popular circles of Christianity today just blindly follow what other teachers say these days instead of them searching the Scriptures to see what they say instead. Some follow the teachings by others that repentance means to forsake sin and some follow the teachings by others that says that repentance is having a change of mind from one's old way of thinking.
After an extensive study of the Scriptures with God, here is...
My Biblical Case For Repentance:
At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

I don't agree with your conclusion.
Repentance means "turn from" or "change".
Those who repent of sin, specifically, don't commit more sin or the sin will show that their repentance was a lie.

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

"Forsakes sin..."
That I do agree with.