Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

[Phil W]

When someone enters Christ, is He like a home, wherein the person is free to go, or is He like a prison, wherein the person is not free to go.

He is like a life-boat.
Get out to your own demise.

 

[Dave L]

He is like a life-boat.
Get out to your own demise.

If a person has a true relationship with Christ, he or she would rather die than lose touch with him. Getting out of the boat is furthest from their mind.

 

[Religiot]

If a person has a true relationship with Christ, he or she would rather die than lose touch with him. Getting out of the boat is furthest from their mind.

Are they free to get out, tho?

 

[Phil W]

If a person has a true relationship with Christ, he or she would rather die than lose touch with him. Getting out of the boat is furthest from their mind.

Agreed.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are they free to get out, tho?

It all depends on who is holding them in. If they are struggling to keep themselves in the boat then there is a high probability that they are not even in the boat but flailing in the water. If the Captain of the boat has them in his boat (sheepfold) then they rest assured that nobody can snatch them out of His hand.

 

[Hammster]

Hopefully we can see why the house/jail question was not a good way to handle this.

 

[GenemZ]

Why haven't you replied to my response to you in post #61?

Priorities...

 

[Religiot]

It all depends on who is holding them in. If they are struggling to keep themselves in the boat then there is a high probability that they are not even in the boat but flailing in the water. If the Captain of the boat has them in his boat (sheepfold) then they rest assured that nobody can snatch them out of His hand.

The analogy is Christ as the vessel, and it was proposed in response to questions about being in Christ.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The analogy is Christ as the vessel, and it was proposed in response to questions about being in Christ.

Even better. The boat (Christ) is incapable as well as entirely unwilling to lose any that are well and truly His.

 

[Religiot]

Hopefully we can see why the house/jail question was not a good way to handle this.

The home v prison question, was just a prelude to the ark question.

I believe that Noah's ark is a metaphor for Christ, and that Noah was simply the preacher calling out to the world, that the end was coming, and that this was the only way to be saved.

I believe the end is coming, and this time, it will be by fire, and only those who choose to obey the gospel will enter Christ, and keep the faith.

The ark, the house, the temple, etc., they are all just metaphors for Christ, Who is a real person, Who is my Master, Whom I love, because He first loved me.

Only Satan wants us to disobey Him, only Satan wants us to go away from Him...
----------
God has elected us according to His foreknowledge; thus, only those whom He foreknew He predestined: this salvation before the commencement of time is predicated on His knowing us before we knew Him, therefore, it follows, that He knew who would chose to obey the truth, and who would not; and so to remain in Christ is indeed a choice, otherwise, God did not predestine us according to actual foreknowledge, but has indeed prescribed some to life and others to death.

--Actual foreknowledge is required for the descriptive way God has predestined us... ...free will remains, and man, not God, is the one to blame.

--Fake foreknowledge is generated by prescriptive methods for generating outcomes: a thing anyone, with any power, over anything, can do. When this kind of foreknowledge is ascribed to God, it is equal to denying His omniscience, and omnipotence, among many, many, other things, not attributable to Him... ...there is no free will, and God, not man, is the only one to blame--and of great importance to my point in this thread, obedience is moot.

I'm confident that answers the descriptive v prescriptive question.

If not, please let me know, thanks.

 

[Hammster]

The home v prison question, was just a prelude to the ark question.

I believe that Noah's ark is a metaphor for Christ, and that Noah was simply the preacher calling out to the world, that the end was coming, and that this was the only way to be saved.

I believe the end is coming, and this time, it will be by fire, and only those who choose to obey the gospel will enter Christ, and keep the faith.

The ark, the house, the temple, etc., they are all just metaphors for Christ, Who is a real person, Who is my Master, Whom I love, because He first loved me.

Only Satan wants us to disobey Him, only Satan wants us to go away from Him...
----------
God has elected us according to His foreknowledge; thus, only those whom He foreknew He predestined: this salvation before the commencement of time is predicated on His knowing us before we knew Him, therefore, it follows, that He knew who would chose to obey the truth, and who would not; and so to remain in Christ is indeed a choice, otherwise, God did not predestine us according to actual foreknowledge, but has indeed prescribed some to life and others to death.

--Actual foreknowledge is required for the descriptive way God has predestined us... ...free will remains, and man, not God, is the one to blame.

--Fake foreknowledge is generated by prescriptive methods for generating outcomes: a thing anyone, with any power, over anything, can do. When this kind of foreknowledge is ascribed to God, it is equal to denying His omniscience, and omnipotence, among many, many, other things, not attributable to Him... ...there is no free will, and God, not man, is the only one to blame--and of great importance to my point in this thread, obedience is moot.

I'm confident that answers the descriptive v prescriptive question.

If not, please let me know, thanks.

You’ll have to define what the Bible means by foreknowledge.

 

[GenemZ]

That’s a good one.

Religiot had ignored my answer to the same question previous to post #61.

Should I have to repeat myself? Again, and again?

Here is the key passage...


Matthew 7:21-23...

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say
to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your
name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will
tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

Jesus saying he never knew them?

Means? They were never saved.

These were never believers! Religious, yes. But, not saved.

Add to that? Jesus said that there would be MANY doing such a charade. Not a few. Counterfeiting being super Christians.

First of all.

One passage Religiot cited trying to prove that no one could cast out demons unless he be from God? He used a passage stated during the Jewish age. The new way of the Church age had not yet begun.

In contrast, Matthew 7:21-23 speaks of what was yet to come. To appear after Pentecost. A new age. Changes had been made!

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus was warning of what was to come later on. Later, after the Jewish age had ceased. Jesus was speaking of when the new way of the Spirit would begin as the Church entered into becoming God's Chosen people.

During the age of Israel? It would have never entered Satan's mind to cast out demons like Jesus manifested. He had no reason to do so. No one else could do it until Jesus came along. If Satan had done that at that time? Jesus said that Satan would be a kingdom divided against itself.

But that all changed....

When the church age burst onto the scene the apostles began drawing crowds with miracles and casting out of demons. And, after doing so? They were having audiences willing to hear the new teachings of Christ.

Satan's new problem? The more solid teachings believers accepted? The more Satan was losing his ability to influence people away from Truth. Truth that would make them free of Satan's influencing the minds of men. That had to cause Satan to panic initially. For he craves controlling the minds of men. Satan is the original socialist. The original control freak.

After Jesus ascended the church became the new age? Satan now needed to form a new combat strategy. One with a new offensive designed to counter what was being manifested in the church age. In doing so? Satan devised and created counterfeit Christianity.

To do so, Satan would have to introduce men as a double agents to mislead and deceive. Satan became the first "deep state" within the Church.

But Satan had to wait till after the apostles were all gone before entering certain ways. For the apostles while alive held the authority to expose and refute these fakers who preached in the name of Christ. With the apostles gone the only thing that protects us now is having a sure and sound grasp on the Scriptures. Sloppy thinking leaves the gate open for false doctrine to creep in.

Satan's illusion was being formed and was already beginning in Paul's day...

And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground
from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with
us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles,
deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder,
for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Cor 11:12-14​

Need we say more?

It was a new learning curve for Satan. It took Satan time to perfect new illusions. It took planning and organizing and training of his demons. Fake exorcisms done while using the name of Jesus to pull it off did not appear right away. First the church needed to be dumbed down by stifling sound doctrinal teachings. Peter warns us about that coming around the corner.

Over time Satan's deception has worked to fool many as we can see today with the likes of certain TV preachers who somehow become super filthy rich.

The plan? Satan had to deceive gullible people and draw them away from good Bible teaching into false doctrine. To do so? Satan was forced to create an illusion that he disliked doing. For he had to put himself down at times to make the illusion stick. Casting out demons is done by having certain demons agreeing to remove themselves on command from a demonic agent pretending to be a man of God. Men doing their works in the name of Jesus to fully cover their scheme. That way it blows wide open the minds of gullible souls into accepting all sorts of false teachings. For only having Truth will make a soul free from Satan's influence.

So, my point was..

Yes. Definitely..unbelievers (never saved) can be used of Satan to appear to know Christ. And, enabled to perform all sorts of false wonders done in Satan's powers. These men and women do sense an anointing. But its not God they sense. They have become the deceived deceiving the deceived.

Many (not a few) will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy
in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform
many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from
me, you evildoers!’" ​

That says these ones were never saved! They are unbelievers counterfeiting being Christians.

So, to answer anything else Rigolot had to say?

Would be for me to deny the point I had already made. One which has been cleanly resolved for those who do comprehend what is written. Reading carefully what is said.

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

That can not be speaking about someone who believed. Never means never!

Jesus did not say...

‘I no longer know you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

One false doctrine Satan loves is telling believers they can lose their salvation. If it were true? We would be reading how I rewrote that verse instead of what it says!

grace and peace....... GeneZ

 

[bbbbbbb]

Religiot had ignored my answer to the same question previous to post #61.

Should I have to repeat myself? Again, and again?

Here is the key passage...


Matthew 7:21-23...

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say
to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your
name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will
tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

Jesus saying he never knew them?

Means? They were never saved.

These were never believers! Religious, yes. But, not saved.

Add to that? Jesus said that there would be MANY doing such a charade. Not a few. Counterfeiting being super Christians.

First of all.

One passage Religiot cited trying to prove that no one could cast out demons unless he be from God? He used a passage stated during the Jewish age. The new way of the Church age had not yet begun.

In contrast, Matthew 7:21-23 speaks of what was yet to come. Appear after Pentecost. A new age. Changes had been made!

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus was warning of what was to come later on. Later after the Jewish age had ceased. Jesus was speaking of when the new way of the Spirit would begin as the Church entered into becoming God's Chosen people.

During the age of Israel? It would have never entered Satan's mind to cast out demons like Jesus manifested. He had no reason to do so. No one else could do it until Jesus came along. If Satan had done that at that time? Jesus said that Satan would be a kingdom divided against itself.

But that all changed....

When the church age burst onto the scene the apostles began drawing crowds with miracles and casting out of demons. And, after doing so? They were having audiences willing to hear the new teachings of Christ.

Satan's new problem? The more solid teachings believers accepted? The more Satan was losing his ability to influence people away from Truth. Truth that would make them free of Satan's influencing the minds of men. That had to cause Satan panic initially. For he craves controlling the minds of men. Satan is the original socialist. The original control freak.

Because after Jesus ascended this became a new age? Satan now needed to form a new strategy to combat, with a new offensive that was to counter what was being manifested in the church age. In doing so? Satan devised and created counterfeit Christianity.

To do so, Satan would have to enter men as a double agents and mislead and deceive. Satan became the first "deep state" within the Church.

But Satan had to wait till after the apostles were all gone before entering certain ways. For the apostles while alive held the authority to expose and refute these fakers who preached in the name of Christ. The only thing that protects us now is having a sure and sound grasp on the Scriptures. Sloppy thinking leaves the gate open for false doctrine to creep in.

Satan's illusion was being formed and was already beginning in Paul's day...

And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground
from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with
us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles,
deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder,
for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Cor 11:12-14​

Need we say more?

It was a new learning curve. It took Satan time to perfect his new illusions. It took planning and organizing, and training of his demons. Fake exorcisms done while using the name of Jesus to pull it off did not appear right away. First the church needed to be dumbed down by stifling sound doctrinal teachings. Peter warns us about that coming around the corner.

Over time Satan's deception has worked to fool many, as we can see today with the likes of certain TV preachers who somehow become super filthy rich.

The plan? Satan had to deceive gullible people and draw them away from good Bible teaching into false doctrine. To do so, Satan was forced to create an illusion that he disliked doing. For he had to put himself down at times to make the illusion stick. Its done by having certain demons agreeing to remove themselves on command from a demonic agent pretending to be a man of God. Men doing their works in the name of Jesus to fully cover their scheme. That way it blows wide open the minds of gullible souls into accepting all sorts of false teachings. For only having Truth will make a soul free from Satan's influence.

So my point was..

Yes. Definitely..unbelievers (never saved) can be used of Satan to appear to know Christ, and to perform all sorts of false wonders done in Satan's powers. These men and women do sense an anointing. But its not God they sense. They have become the deceived deceiving the deceived.

Many (not a few) will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy
in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform
many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from
me, you evildoers!’" ​

These ones were never saved! They are unbelievers counterfeiting being Christians.

So, to answer anything else Rigolot had to say?

Would be for me to deny the point I had already made. One which has been cleanly resolved for those who do comprehend what is written. Reading carefully what is said.

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

That can not be speaking about someone who believed. Never means never!

Jesus did not say...

‘I no longer know you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

One false doctrine Satan loves is telling believers they can lose their salvation. If it were true? We would be reading how I rewrote that verse instead of what it says!

grace and peace....... GeneZ

 

[Religiot]

Religiot had ignored my answer to the same question previous to post #61.

Should I have to repeat myself? Again, and again?

Here is the key passage...


Matthew 7:21-23...

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say
to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your
name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will
tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

Jesus saying he never knew them?

Means? They were never saved.

These were never believers! Religious, yes. But, not saved.

Add to that? Jesus said that there would be MANY doing such a charade. Not a few. Counterfeiting being super Christians.

First of all.

One passage Religiot cited trying to prove that no one could cast out demons unless he be from God? He used a passage stated during the Jewish age. The new way of the Church age had not yet begun.

In contrast, Matthew 7:21-23 speaks of what was yet to come. To appear after Pentecost. A new age. Changes had been made!

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus was warning of what was to come later on. Later, after the Jewish age had ceased. Jesus was speaking of when the new way of the Spirit would begin as the Church entered into becoming God's Chosen people.

During the age of Israel? It would have never entered Satan's mind to cast out demons like Jesus manifested. He had no reason to do so. No one else could do it until Jesus came along. If Satan had done that at that time? Jesus said that Satan would be a kingdom divided against itself.

But that all changed....

When the church age burst onto the scene the apostles began drawing crowds with miracles and casting out of demons. And, after doing so? They were having audiences willing to hear the new teachings of Christ.

Satan's new problem? The more solid teachings believers accepted? The more Satan was losing his ability to influence people away from Truth. Truth that would make them free of Satan's influencing the minds of men. That had to cause Satan to panic initially. For he craves controlling the minds of men. Satan is the original socialist. The original control freak.

After Jesus ascended the church became the new age? Satan now needed to form a new combat strategy. One with a new offensive designed to counter what was being manifested in the church age. In doing so? Satan devised and created counterfeit Christianity.

To do so, Satan would have to introduce men as a double agents to mislead and deceive. Satan became the first "deep state" within the Church.

But Satan had to wait till after the apostles were all gone before entering certain ways. For the apostles while alive held the authority to expose and refute these fakers who preached in the name of Christ. With the apostles gone the only thing that protects us now is having a sure and sound grasp on the Scriptures. Sloppy thinking leaves the gate open for false doctrine to creep in.

Satan's illusion was being formed and was already beginning in Paul's day...

And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground
from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with
us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles,
deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder,
for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Cor 11:12-14​

Need we say more?

It was a new learning curve for Satan. It took Satan time to perfect new illusions. It took planning and organizing and training of his demons. Fake exorcisms done while using the name of Jesus to pull it off did not appear right away. First the church needed to be dumbed down by stifling sound doctrinal teachings. Peter warns us about that coming around the corner.

Over time Satan's deception has worked to fool many as we can see today with the likes of certain TV preachers who somehow become super filthy rich.

The plan? Satan had to deceive gullible people and draw them away from good Bible teaching into false doctrine. To do so? Satan was forced to create an illusion that he disliked doing. For he had to put himself down at times to make the illusion stick. Casting out demons is done by having certain demons agreeing to remove themselves on command from a demonic agent pretending to be a man of God. Men doing their works in the name of Jesus to fully cover their scheme. That way it blows wide open the minds of gullible souls into accepting all sorts of false teachings. For only having Truth will make a soul free from Satan's influence.

So, my point was..

Yes. Definitely..unbelievers (never saved) can be used of Satan to appear to know Christ. And, enabled to perform all sorts of false wonders done in Satan's powers. These men and women do sense an anointing. But its not God they sense. They have become the deceived deceiving the deceived.

Many (not a few) will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy
in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform
many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from
me, you evildoers!’" ​

That says these ones were never saved! They are unbelievers counterfeiting being Christians.

So, to answer anything else Rigolot had to say?

Would be for me to deny the point I had already made. One which has been cleanly resolved for those who do comprehend what is written. Reading carefully what is said.

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

That can not be speaking about someone who believed. Never means never!

Jesus did not say...

‘I no longer know you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ​

One false doctrine Satan loves is telling believers they can lose their salvation. If it were true? We would be reading how I rewrote that verse instead of what it says!

grace and peace....... GeneZ

Well, since it's obvious you're not going to respond to my reply to you in post #61, then I'll just move on and reply to this post also.

I appreciate some of what you've said, but I think the main issue between us has to do with the subject of foreknowledge, which is obviously not the point of this thread, but in an attempt at solidarity, I will demonstrate why I think you, and others, are having such a hard time with comprehending my use of Matthew chapter 7 as part of the basis for this thread.

Foreknowledge just means to know before, and it is an intrinsic part of omniscience: the following will show that foreknowledge is one of the ways God chooses to see things, and is the way He predestined us:

"I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." Psalms 139:14-16

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." --Jeremiah 1:5

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." --1 Peter 1:1-2

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?" --Romans 8:28-31

CONCERNING MATTHEW CHAPTER SEVEN:

Without understanding that we are predestined from the foundation of the world, it will perhaps be impossible to see why the Lord said He 'never knew' them:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." --Ephesians 1:4-6

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." --Matthew 25:31-46

MOREOVER:

I think perhaps you have forgotten that the Lord says He doesn't 'know' someone in other ways too:

"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." --Matthew 25:1-13

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last." --Luke 13:24-30

WHEREFORE:

It becomes plain to see that what the Lord said in Matthew 7 is in harmony with what He said about the same thing elsewhere; and it all only makes sense, if you accept that we are predestined by His foreknowledge, before the foundation of the world.

THEREFORE:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." --Matthew 7:21-23

"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." --2 Timothy 2:19

CONCERNING YOUR CONJECTURES ON POST ASCENSION DEMONOLOGY:

The following scripture contradicts your conjectures, directly:

"Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified." --Acts 19:13-17

Please reconsider the freedom you have taken with God's word, especially on such sensitive matters as demonology.

(I'm well aware of the fraud perpetrated by many commercial churches, and their false teachers, but it is not what you have purported.)

I hope my responses have been of service to you.

I wish you well, and I look forward to your reply, thanks.

 

[Religiot]

You’ll have to define what the Bible means by foreknowledge.

Please see my latest response to genez, post #134, the sections on foreknowledge, and Matthew 7, thanks.

 

[GenemZ]

Well, since it's obvious you're not going to respond to my reply to you in post #61, then I'll just move on and reply to this post also.

I appreciate some of what you've said, but I think the main issue between us has to do with the subject of foreknowledge, which is obviously not the point of this thread, but in an attempt at solidarity, I will demonstrate why I think you, and others, are having such a hard time with comprehending my use of Matthew chapter 7 as part of the basis for this thread.

Do you still believe those Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7:21-23, speaks these men using God's power to heal and cast out demons? That it was by God's power?

Here is what you said in post #61.

Many things, however, do concern me greatly about your post, first of which is your assertion that the non-believers Jesus spoke about had power to do miracles that were not from God. This is highly problematic, because in the short list of miracles they performed was the casting out of devils, which is specifically from God, as explained by the Lord:

Its not problematic if you know enough doctrine to put it together.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say
to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your
name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will
tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
​

Jesus *never* knew them. They were *never* saved. Satan is shown in the book of Revelation having powers to perform miracles. He has powers. Looks what he did with Job!

 

[GenemZ]

Please see my latest response to genez, post #134, the sections on foreknowledge, and Matthew 7, thanks.

You keep moving away from the original point I made, and now want to create brush wars as diversions.

You want to create a wild goose chase? Keep running. I am standing on the Word that you refused to deal with. Until you do? You have no right to demand answers about other things that will only serve to divert away from what you failed to properly address.

 

[Religiot]

Do you still believe those Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7:21-23, speaks these men using God's power to heal and cast out demons? That is was by God's power?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say
to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your
name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will
tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

Yes.

Balaam was a real prophet, who could actually speak to, and hear God, yet he was wicked, and made himself an enemy to Israel, and caused Israel to sin, etc.

The scriptures warn against the doctrine of Balaam, and his actions repeatedly.

Brother,
Satan hates us too much, to alleviate even the slightest affliction--he's not in the business of providing anything good, not even for a while. His only desire is to kill us, or harm us, anyway that he can, so much so, that if it wasn't for God limiting his actions in the world, he would immediately commence wholesale torture in the public forum, to a degree not imaginable by anyone: now he does this within the constraints presently keeping him at bay, so most horror still takes place in the dark places of our world, by the grace of God. Sadly, Satan's rule is ever increasing as we approach the end of days, and the full manifestation of his wickedness will blossom during the new dark age.

May God continue to have mercy on us, in Yehoshua Messiah's mighty name, amen.

 

[Religiot]

You keep moving away from the original point I made, and now want to create brush wars as diversions.

You want to create a wild goose chase? Keep running. I am standing on the Word that you refused to deal with. Until you do? You have no right to demand answers about other things that will only serve to divert away from what you failed to properly address.

I don't know what you're talking about, sincerely.

Feel free to elaborate, cause I'm not following what you're presently saying.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes.

Balaam was a real prophet, who could actually speak to, and hear God, yet he was wicked, and made himself an enemy to Israel, and caused Israel to sin, etc.

The scriptures warn against the doctrine of Balaam, and his actions repeatedly.

Balaam was saved. Jesus knew him. Balaam also chose to walk after the desires of greed. God only provided power when Balaam was being overwhelmed with the Spirit of prophesy from God. Balaam even said that he could not help but say the truth when God speaks through him. Balaam was a prophet of God who was most obviously saved by grace. For his works surely did not get him saved.

Now, you keep drifting because you still fail to see what Matthew 7:21-23 speaks of. That unbelievers will charade as Christians, using a counterfeit power from Satan to deceive. For false doctrine does rob and steal from a believer. It also murders the spiritual life that God wants the believer to walk in.

Are you so reluctant to admit that Satan has been granted a certain amount of power of his own? Look what Satan did to Job and his family? That was not God's power at work.

Why you want to start about God's foreknowledge? It is irrelevant to the point I keep trying to get you to nail down and stop zig zagging.