Did the Baptist get it right?

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Indeed!

I was raised in a Southern Baptist congregation (more than one on the life journey). Just for the record, the So Baps were more concerned with state's rights than slavery, AND the slavery discussion has been over since the Civil War ended. I'm a bit weary of being confused with the Westboro bunch as well. Of course, identifying as a Christian leads to accusations ranging from starting the Crusades to hating women. But, like Jesus said in John 15:18 ...

I'm Southern Baptist (though iffy about OSAS) and I thought the whole reason for our denomination's existence was because some slave owners wanted to be able to be pastors.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I'm Southern Baptist (though iffy about OSAS) and I thought the whole reason for our denomination's existence was because some slave owners wanted to be able to be pastors.

There seems to many stories involved and some degree of difficulty sorting out which ones are closest to reality - if any - and what any of that may or may not mean. The story I was told, by a pastor who is a history buff, is a man who was already commissioned as a Missionary inherited a small farm in one of the Carolinas (as I recall). At the same time (between his commissioning and his departure) he inherited the 'equipment' belonging to the farm: among other normal for the time 'farmy' stuff were two slaves. This caused a furor, of course.

According to some SoBap sites, prior to the formation of the SoBap Convention, a great deal of disagreement existed over the formal appointing and support of missionaries. No doubt other groups have alternate histories, one expects that.

Two of my direct-line ancestors (my great- grandfather and my GG-grandfather) served as infantrymen in the Civil War. Both in the same unit of Pennsylvania Volunteers. (They were NORTHERNERS, for all those who attended school in PDSR California and other locales where History and Geography are considered a waste of time.) I was born in Kansas - a free state in the antebellum days - about 85 years after the end of the Civil War. Just for the record, I have never owned a slave and never really wanted to own a slave. Nor have any of the people with whom I've attended church.

Realistically, the denomination was founded some 171 years ago (1845). Any anger over the issue of slavery, state's rights and the Union are pretty much gone in the denomination.

 

[BABerean2]

iffy about OSAS

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Hyper-Calvinism has been destructive to the modern Church.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Hyper-Calvinism has been destructive to the modern Church.

I wouldn't call SBC hyper-Calvinist. Yes, there has been a strong Calvinist surge recently, but the denomination doesn't take an official stance on the Arminiocalvinisn spectrum other than OSAS.

In fact, it would be more accurate the call Southern Baptists classical Arminians only with unconditional eternal security instead of conditional security.

The Calvinists believe in the perseverance of saints, which depending on who you ask, is or is not the same thing as eternal security.

The doctrine is that true believers will persevere until the end and will not die in their sins. If one shows the signs of a genuine repentance and faith, but later backslides, they were not really saved to begin with.

 

[BABerean2]

I wouldn't call SBC hyper-Calvinist. Yes, there has been a strong Calvinist surge recently, but the denomination doesn't take an official stance on the Arminiocalvinisn spectrum other than OSAS.

In fact, it would be more accurate the call Southern Baptists classical Arminians only with unconditional eternal security instead of conditional security.

The Calvinists believe in the perseverance of saints, which depending on who you ask, is or is not the same thing as eternal security.

The doctrine is that true believers will persevere until the end and will not die in their sins. If one shows the signs of a genuine repentance and faith, but later backslides, they were not really saved to begin with.

Being of the Baptist persuasion in holding to believer's baptism and from the South I have found the biggest problem with the SBC is the tendency to promote John Nelson Darby's doctrine, which was brought to America about the time of the Civil War.

Most of those sitting in the pews have no idea about its true origin.

A few are now seeing the truth of the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31:34, and spoken at the Last Supper by the One who would fulfill the New Covenant at Matthew 26:28. On the day of Pentecost 3,000 of the "house of Israel" accepted the New Covenant at Acts 2:36. It is found fulfilled at Hebrews 8:6-13 and Hebrews 12:24 and is "everlasting" at Hebrews 13:20. It is found in those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11.

Once one comes to understand the New Covenant, John Darby's doctrine comes apart.

 

[DeaconDean]

I wouldn't call SBC hyper-Calvinist. Yes, there has been a strong Calvinist surge recently, but the denomination doesn't take an official stance on the Arminiocalvinisn spectrum other than OSAS.

In fact, it would be more accurate the call Southern Baptists classical Arminians only with unconditional eternal security instead of conditional security.

Actually, since the big split back in 2000, the SBC has been under attack for its "Calvinist" viewpoint.

There is a big push by liberals to move the SBC back to a liberal, Arminian viewpoint.

Being of the Baptist persuasion in holding to believer's baptism and from the South I have found the biggest problem with the SBC is the tendency to promote John Nelson Darby's doctrine, which was brought to America about the time of the Civil War.

If you read the 1925, Baptist Faith and Message, and the Baptist Faith and Message of 2000, I fail to see a promotion of a "pre-millennial" rapture.

Since 1742, and the Philadelphia Baptist Association Baptist Confession down to today, Baptists (exception of Northern Baptists) have taken a Calvinist viewpoint on Election and Perseverance of the Saints.

At the founding of the SBC, the standard for Southern Baptists was "Abstract of Principles" by James P. Boyce written in 1858.

Sorry, I don't see a promotion of a "rapture" theory that is associated with J.N. Darby in the 1858, 1925, or the 2000 Baptist Faith and message.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[BABerean2]

Actually, since the big split back in 2000, the SBC has been under attack for its "Calvinist" viewpoint.

There is a big push by liberals to move the SBC back to a liberal, Arminian viewpoint.



If you read the 1925, Baptist Faith and Message, and the Baptist Faith and Message of 2000, I fail to see a promotion of a "pre-millennial" rapture.

Since 1742, and the Philadelphia Baptist Association Baptist Confession down to today, Baptists (exception of Northern Baptists) have taken a Calvinist viewpoint on Election and Perseverance of the Saints.

At the founding of the SBC, the standard for Southern Baptists was "Abstract of Principles" by James P. Boyce written in 1858.

Sorry, I don't see a promotion of a "rapture" theory that is associated with J.N. Darby in the 1858, 1925, or the 2000 Baptist Faith and message.

God Bless

Till all are one.

A Baptist speaks on the History of Dispensationalism in America
Ernest Reisinger
http://founders.org/fj09/the-history-of-dispensationalism-in-america/

.

 

[DeaconDean]

A Baptist speaks on the History of Dispensationalism in America
Ernest Reisinger
http://founders.org/fj09/the-history-of-dispensationalism-in-america/

.

Be that as it may, I speak from the Historic Confessions of Faith from Baptists.

As a matter of fact, one of the biggest propoents of Dispensationalism was Dwight L. Moody.

But what has that to do with the historic Baptist confessions?

Nothing.

Like I said, from 1742 until 2000, I see nothing in the SBC confessions that promotes the theology of one J.N. Darby.

God Bless

Till all are one.