Did the Baptist get it right?

[Albion]

So, you don't see, "... do this in remembrance of me," in Luke 22:19 as a command to be obeyed?

What's the argument in favor of adhering to only part of what Christ said on that occasion? Just about every church that observes the Lord's Supper believes that it's a remembrance; the question is whether that's ALL it is.

 

[Mudinyeri]

What's the argument in favor of adhering to only part of what Christ said on that occasion? Just about every church that observes the Lord's Supper believes that it's a remembrance; the question is whether that's ALL it is.

You misunderstood my "argument"? My question was not an either/or question but rather an, "Isn't it both?" question. @ViaCrucis seems to be suggesting that there is no component of obedience whatsoever.

 

[Albion]

My apologies and I did indeed just drop into the thread without catching up on all that's been written. However, and as I read your most recent post, I see that you seem to have switched to "obedience" from "remembrance."

While just about all churches consider the Lord's Supper to be a remembrance, it's only a certain segment that emphasize observing it as a matter of obedience. And the justification for that POV I cannot find in the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper.

 

[Mudinyeri]

My apologies and I did indeed just drop into the thread without catching up on all that's been written. However, and as I read your most recent post, I see that you seem to have switched to "obedience" from "remembrance."

While just about all churches consider the Lord's Supper to be a remembrance, it's only a certain segment that emphasize observing it as a matter of obedience. And the justification for that POV I cannot find in the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper.

Hmmm ... I think my point may still be unclear. Does, "Do this," not equal a command to be obeyed (obedience)?

 

[Albion]

Hmmm ... I think my point may still be unclear. Does, "Do this," not equal a command to be obeyed (obedience)?

More apologies. Of course that's so; I was thinking of the familiar Baptist contention that the main reason for observing either of the sacraments is as a show of obedience to the Lord, any other benefit to the recipient being considered superstitious. Yes, my belief is that it is commanded of us.

 

[Mudinyeri]

More apologies. Of course that's so; I was thinking of the familiar Baptist contention that the main reason for observing either of the sacraments is as a show of obedience to the Lord, any other benefit to the recipient being considered superstitious. Yes, my belief is that it is commanded of us.

Whew! Finally made my point clear.

Interestingly, I am a member of a Baptist church where I lead an adult Bible fellowship on Sunday mornings. We are currently going through The Baptist Faith and Message and I'm teaching on the topics of baptism and the Lord's Supper this week. My poor group members are going to get a workout tomorrow.

 

[Albion]

Thanks for being patient with me.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Thanks for being patient with me.

I've heard it said that patience is a virtue ... sometimes I struggle with remembrance, though.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hmmm ... I think my point may still be unclear. Does, "Do this," not equal a command to be obeyed (obedience)?

It's a gift. It's a means of grace. It's what Christ gives to us, not what we give to him.

How much obedience does it take for you to drink a thimble of grape juice and eat a glutten-free cracker?

 

[Albion]

It's a gift. It's a means of grace. It's what Christ gives to us, not what we give to him.

How much obedience does it take for you to drink a thimble of grape juice and eat a glutton-free cracker?

If my doctor said to do this for some beneficial medical reason, and I then did it every morning, I would indeed say that I'm being obedient. But if I did this only because I was showing him that I'd engage in some meaningless act simply as a gesture of my allegiance to him, that wouldn't be the same idea. IOW, when we talk about the sacrament/ordinance and use the word obedience we have to be sure what, exactly, we mean by it.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If my doctor said to do this for some beneficial medical reason, and I then did it every morning, I would indeed say that I'm being obedient. But if I did this only because I was showing him that I'd engage in some meaningless act simply as a gesture of my allegiance to him, that wouldn't be the same idea. IOW, when we talk about the sacrament/ordinance and use the word obedience we have to be sure what, exactly, we mean by it.

Yes.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I've been to many, many Baptist churches, and in my experience, there is a paranoia about anything that might get within 100' of even the appearance of something Catholic.

Yet, they subscribe to belief in the same Hell as the Catholics...well, except for the No-Hell Baptists.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yet, they subscribe to belief in the same Hell as the Catholics...well, except for the No-Hell Baptists.

There are also some no-hell Catholics floating around, too.

 

[Lazarus Short]

There are also some no-hell Catholics floating around, too.

Interesting! I had not heard or even imagined of such.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Interesting! I had not heard or even imagined of such.

There is a strand in modern Catholic theology which goes like this - if a person is a faithful member of his religion and has never heard of Christ God cannot condemn him to hell simply because he is ignorant of Christ or of the Catholic church. Taken to an extreme this theology denies hell because nobody in their right mind would choose to go to hell.

 

[Lazarus Short]

There is a strand in modern Catholic theology which goes like this - if a person is a faithful member of his religion and has never heard of Christ God cannot condemn him to hell simply because he is ignorant of Christ or of the Catholic church. Taken to an extreme this theology denies hell because nobody in their right mind would choose to go to hell.

My position is that God cannot condemn anyone to Hell, because for conscious torment to be a reality, the body must reunite with the Spirit of Life (part of God, one of the Seven Spirits). It's like, dead body + Spirit = soul. If that soul is sent to Hell, the Spirit must necessarily be a part of it for conscious torment to be possible. God would not do that, so Hell is excluded. I have many, many other reasons to dismiss the Hell Theory.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

My position is that God cannot condemn anyone to Hell, because for conscious torment to be a reality, the body must reunite with the Spirit of Life (part of God, one of the Seven Spirits). It's like, dead body + Spirit = soul. If that soul is sent to Hell, the Spirit must necessarily be a part of it for conscious torment to be possible. God would not do that, so Hell is excluded. I have many, many other reasons to dismiss the Hell Theory.

Hell theory? What do you replace God's word on the subject with, your theory?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hell theory? What do you replace God's word on the subject with, your theory?

Actually, it is not his theory, but something he picked up along the way from some unorthodox folks. If you go over to that board you will easily find such odd speculations and more.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Actually, it is not his theory, but something he picked up along the way from some unorthodox folks. If you go over to that board you will easily find such odd speculations and more.

Oh, what board is that? I do not seek to "replace God's Word," but to clear up some basic mistranslations and to point to some markers most folks fail to see. It is not easy, for too many people lack the ability to see what they are looking at. There is more involved, of course, but I see that a lot of people on many forums seem to fail to comprehend what I am trying to clearly say.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Oh, what board is that? I do not seek to "replace God's Word," but to clear up some basic mistranslations and to point to some markers most folks fail to see. It is not easy, for too many people lack the ability to see what they are looking at. There is more involved, of course, but I see that a lot of people on many forums seem to fail to comprehend what I am trying to clearly say.

That would be here - http://www.christianforums.com/forums/controversial-christian-theology.130/

Whether or not you picked your notions up here at CF or somewhere else in your life I cannot say, of course. However, you ought to be pleased that you are hardly the first person to come up with this conclusion nor, might I add, the last.