Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[SBC]

That could only pertain to a believer. Correct?

Now, if you could never sin?

How could any believer grieve the Holy Spirit?

Using Scripture, in an attempt to make a false accusation against another believer.
Using Scripture, in an attempt to make a false accusation that sin is acceptable.
Using Scripture, in an attempt to make a false accusation that Gods forgiveness fails.
Using Scripture, in an attempt to make a false accusation that Gods saving fails.

IOW - Using Gods TRUTH, and attempting to present it as a lie.

God bless,
SBC

 

[JLB777]

Are we to think of ourselves as sinners or not...?

If we are to not think of ourselves as sinners, how does that work? When all of us do sin...?

My assumption for people who think that we should not think ourselves sinners, when we do sin, must be that somehow the sin is not charged against us or held to our account, or that our sin is not longer sin somehow any longer, when we do commit a sin...?

God Bless!

A sinner is a person who practices sin.

Example:

If a person puts a bandage on a person, he is not a doctor, because a doctor is one who "practices medicine" as a lifestyle.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is said to be separate from sinners.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


We who are Christ's, are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


Likewise, it is those who practice righteousness, that are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

JLB

 

[SBC]

And those who imagine they no longer sin based upon their specious wresting of Scriptures such as excludes mistreatment of others as being sin, or that the only reality is what one positionally is in Christ, are deceived and being deceived, against which 1 John 1:10 and 2 Peter 3:16 warns.
​

​

1 John 1:
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Your comment is curious.

First you identify one who claims "they no longer sin".
Then try to apply a scripture to them that says "have not sinned".

How is one who has sinned, then NO LONGER sinning, the same who is saying they "have not" sinned?

I have not seen one person claim; they no longer sin, being BASED upon;
wresting with scriptures...
mistreatment of others...
or that the only reality is what one positionally is in Christ

Yet you say, they WHO claim to NO LONGER sin are deceived and being deceived.

However Scripture says; a man born of God, does not commit sin, can not sin.

So, can you clear up your position?
Do you believe a man WHO IS born of God, Does commit sin, Can sin?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus came to save sinners from their sin.

I trust it worked!
I am forgiven my sins, saved, born again and sin no more.

God Bless,
SBC

You have not sinned since being saved?

 

[ToBeLoved]

A sinner is a person who practices sin.

Example:

If a person puts a bandage on a person, he is not a doctor, because a doctor is one who "practices medicine" as a lifestyle.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is said to be separate from sinners.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


We who are Christ's, are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


Likewise, it is those who practice righteousness, that are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

JLB

Hebrews 7:22 Jesse was and is separate from sinners because He never sinned.

And he who practices righteousness is righteous sounds right.

Now how do these show man can live a sinless life?

 

[Uber Genius]

Look up the phrase, "Positional, progressive, and final sanctification." Any article will help eliminate equivocal definitions of "sinner" with regard to this discussion.

 

[JLB777]

Hebrews 7:22 Jesse was and is separate from sinners because He never sinned.

And he who practices righteousness is righteous sounds right.

Now how do these show man can live a sinless life?

Where in my post did. I mention the phrase sinless life?

 

[SBC]

You have not sinned since being saved?

According to Scripture whosoever is born of God can not sin.
I did what Scripture teaches to become born of God;
I trust God is faithful.
Thus I claim I am born of God.
I trust Scripture is true.
Thus I claim I agree with Scripture;
That I can not sin.

Do you trust Scripture is true?

When your were naturally born did you believe in God?
Did you at some point choose to believe in God?
Did you confess your belief IN God, TO God?
Did God forgive you for not believing IN Him?
Did you become born of God?
Do you think Gods forgiveness and Seed to birth your new spirit failed, and you can still or again DENY belief in God?

I can't. His Power keeps me in standing WITH Him, thus I can not sin.

And the bottom line is; there are only two standings; WITH or AGAINST God.
Matt 12:30

There is no in-between. There is no pretense that men teach; that uh you can be saved, born again, but, but, but still kinda sorta stand against God.

And your view would be?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[ToBeLoved]

Where in my post did. I mention the phrase sinless life?

Maybe you didn’t and that’s what I took out of it after reading it. If I misunderstood, I apologize

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus came to save sinners from their sin.

I trust it worked!
I am forgiven my sins, saved, born again and sin no more.

God Bless,
SBC

Lying to self is a sin.

You should learn that if you want to stop sinning as much as you now do.

1 John 1:7-10

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."​

Why should we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin, if we no longer sin?

And?

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."​

You are in a very dangerous place. Dangerous only to yourself.

 

[SBC]

Lying to self is a sin.

You should learn that if you want to stop sinning as much as you now do.

Seems you need keep searching to discover what it means to grieve the Holy Spirit, then maybe you would learn trying to use Scripture to justify you making false accusations, is grievous to the Holy Spirit.

1 John 1:7-10

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."​

Why should we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin, if we no longer sin?

Perhaps you require multiple cleansings. One was sufficient for me.

And?

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."​

​

And?
Since your repeatedly quote this scripture, I'll presume it is your testimony of yourself.

You are in a very dangerous place. Dangerous only to yourself.

By the scripture you keep quoting, it looks like you are the one in danger.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JIMINZ]

A sinner is a person who practices sin.

Example:

If a person puts a bandage on a person, he is not a doctor, because a doctor is one who "practices medicine" as a lifestyle.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is said to be separate from sinners.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


We who are Christ's, are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


Likewise, it is those who practice righteousness, that are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

JLB

.
But we are, the Righteousness of God in Christ.

2Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[GenemZ]

Seems you need keep searching to discover what it means to grieve the Holy Spirit, then maybe you would learn trying to use Scripture to justify you making false accusations, is grievous to the Holy Spirit.

Are you saying? That I can sin? But, you can not?

 

[rjs330]

.
What is it about Cannot commit sin, or Not at all anymore that you don't understand, that you would ask, "What happens if you do...?"

Cannot and Anymore are the operative words.

Now, when did it happen?

Were you Baptized, that is the when.

Rom 6:4-7
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Yes you are freed from sins control. Sin has no power over us. But we are not free from sin. Please read the rest of the chapter. Sin has no Dominion over us, but we still can choose to sin.

 

[GenemZ]

.
But we are, the Righteousness of God in Christ.

2Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That speaks of imputed righteousness. Not imparted.

God declares us righteous (imputes) because He alone sees our bodies having been crucified in Christ.

Yet? For the time being? We are stuck in out bodies of corruption...

If God made us now to FUNCTION in righteousness? That would be imparted righteousness. It would become part of us.

The only way now that we can walk in righteousness is to walk in the filling of the Spirit. When we do? We then become the righteousness in Christ... not in ourselves. For, its the Spirit who suppresses our sin nature when filled with the Spirit. But, if we are lured away? We can choose to sin. That is when we need to use the meaning of 1 John 1:9, and confess our sins.

If God now made us to be righteousness? We would have our perfect resurrection bodies. Since we do not have our own righteousness? We must be CAUSED (grace) to function is if we were righteous in our bodies.

 

[rjs330]

Between you and I ~
I believe an unsaved, un born again men -
IS dead, by and because of in his sins and trespasses.

ONLY God can forgive Sin - and
Men and God can forgive Trespasses.

I believe SIN is the transgression THAT is personally AGAINST GOD.
naturally born - is Against God
doesn't believe - is Against God
corrupts his soul - is Against God
no faith - is Against God
doesn't know God - is Against God
no spiritual connection to God - is Against God

These are the THINGS, a man WHO begins learning and believing are AGAINST God,
ARE the THINGS, the SINS AGAINST God, that God FORGIVES, when a man repents and submits to God.

(also included in that forgiveness, IS mans TRESPASSES against other men)

Once FORGIVEN - God does the restoring, changing, fixing, so that nothing whatsoever, of the man can ever again STAND AGAINST God, which WAS Sin Against God, is forgiven, and shall be forever, forgiven, covered, forgotten SIN, and the man shall NEVER again be ABLE to SIN.

Now about the TRANSGRESSIONS of men TRESPASSING AGAINST men?
Sure thing ~ happens all the time - intentionally and unintentionally.

And? Run and whine to God about it? Beg his forgiveness? pfft, no.
Go to the person you trespassed Against, ask "their" forgiveness!
And? What if a man trespasses Against you?
He asks you for forgiveness....Give it to him.
He doesn't ask you for forgiveness.....Forgive him anyway.
And? Why?
Because all trespasses of men against men, whom men forgive, so too has God forgiven that forgiving mans own trespasses.

Do you have to run to God and tell him about it? No. It's a given He knows all things, and has already FORE-TOLD, all trespasses a man forgives, his own trespasses against men ARE forgiven.

So, WHEN Scripture teaches, only God forgives SIN, and a man IS Forgiven his SIN AGAINST GOD, and God restores and changes the man; that the man CAN NEVER AGAIN STAND AGAINST GOD - it is to say, the man CAN SIN MORE. The man CAN NOT SIN, He can NOT EVER again Stand Against God. Future SIN of that man IS NOT POSSIBLE!

Transgressions of Trespassing of men against men? Yes.

So why is Scripture "seemingly" confusing, calling SIN and TRESPASSING the same thing?

It started in the BEGINNING, when men first learned about SIN being against God.
Then teaching men (Moses' laws) of men against God, against men; every violation was called a SIN.

The "doing" good, was known, to "do" as God taught was "doing" right.
The word "sin" was introduced, as the word, of NOT doing good or right.

Gen 4
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

Then the word "trespass" was introduced.

Gen 31
[36] And Jacob was wroth, and chode with Laban: and Jacob answered and said to Laban, What is my trespass? what is my sin, that thou hast so hotly pursued after me?

Forward through the OT of laws, between man and God, and between men and men; Sin and Trespass, were words used interchangeably, sometimes for the same things, sometimes not.

Forward from the beginning, THRU, 4,000 years, of tradition and man needing Gods forgiveness of SIN against God and TRESPASSES against men....God provided times, dates, festivals, dinners, temples, alters, etc. that men could work and do, to have places and things specific to BE forgiven their Sins against God and Trespasses against men.

Jesus arrives - The Word of God in the FLESH. Having many things to accomplish -
Fulfilling prophecy, fulfilling mans laws, teaching by example, showing, among other thing....AND revealing Wisdom and Understanding according to God.

Inanutshell and brief -

Every thing OF a man NOT in belief - IS AGAINST GOD, thus that, man is IN SIN and the man COMMITS SIN.

He may ALSO trespass AGAINST other men.

HOWEVER - every thing of a man IN belief, SAVED, BORN AGAIN, IS NEVER again AGAINST GOD. Such a man CAN NOT SIN, can never again, not believe, never again, stand Against God.

Trespass against other men? Yes. Is that a SIN? No. It is a transgression of a Trespass against a man.

What you are calling - "wilful sin" - IS what the unbelieving do. They willfully choose to stand against God. A saved and born again man, can never stand against God, He can not sin.

Think about it - what you think and do against men - is what you are calling "sin". It isn't. It is trespassing against men. It is the man you trespass against you are told to forgive.

Since it is revealed ONLY God can forgive SIN; then you should have discovered, you can not SIN against men, nor could a man forgive you of a sin against him. And tells you to go ask men, and give men forgiveness. Of what? Trespasses.

Does the NT, still mix the traditions of men, calling Sin and Trespass the same thing?
Sure. Tradition of 4,000 years, didn't disappear overnight, nor does "understanding" according to God, come to a man overnight.

However there is enough revealed in Scripture for one to realize the difference between SIN being man against God, and TRESPASSES being man against man.

And when a man IS reconciled unto God, become born of God, the man NO LONGER CAN SIN. He IS freed from SIN. He can not SIN. He IS in standing WITH the Lord forever.

YOU WERE dead, IN trespasses and sin, and forgiven, and can SIN no more.
And any future Trespasses - YOU forgive, and deal with.

Eph 2
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Matt 6
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mark 2
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke 5
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A man "born of God", CAN NOT SIN. He can not stand against God.
God KEEPS the man faithful to God FOREVER, BY HIS POWER.

Can the same man TRESPASS against other men? Absolutely. It is a SIN? No.

All the talking about wilful sin, oops sin, is simply men without understanding of the difference between SIN is Against God, and TRESPASSES are Against Men.

Stick with the facts revealed. Not so much what men KNEW, but rather the UNDERSTANDING of the knowledge revealed.

And keep in mind, OT men, even early NT men, and many today, ARE without "understanding" of the knowledge of the Scriptures.

Understanding "according" to Gods understanding; IS a GIFT, from God TO, men who have become sons of God........AND whom such men, continuously seek , knock, call out, ask God to give them His Wisdom and His Understanding. God is faithful, He will give, to those who seek.



Continue reading and ASK HIM, that you may understand the Scriptures according to His Wisdom and Understanding. That is Gods WILL, that his servants serve God on His behalf, according to His wisdom and Understanding.

God Bless,
SBC

You find yourself in a position that many do. The key to the verses in John are the verb tenses. The verses are not simple one time action verbs. They are verbs of a present tense which referred to an in going continuous action. It is not saying whomever is born if God does not sin ever. The tense is better understood by saying whomever is born of God does not sin in a continuous fashion. It's an important distinction if you are going to reconcile all the verses in I John. When you understand that the rest of John all fits.

 

[GenemZ]

You find yourself in a position that many do. The key to the verses in John are the verb tenses. The verses are not simple one time action verbs. They are verbs of a present tense which referred to an in going continuous action. It is not saying whomever is born if God does not sin ever. The tense is better understood by saying whomever is born of God does not sin in a continuous fashion. It's an important distinction if you are going to reconcile all the verses in I John. When you understand that the rest of John all fits.

Good post!

God will not allow any believer to sin on a continuous basis....

For, God will take that believer home early if he persists! All believers sin after salvation. Those who are moralistically self righteous have a hard time with this.

God guarantees that no believer... if he should choose to try to return to his old ways... will be able to continue in his quest. 1 John 5:16, tells us that even the most determined will not be able to continue in sin.

"If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death,
he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not
leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he
should pray about that."
​

Any believer who persists in wanting to recapture his old fleshly glories of sin, will be sentenced by God to the sin unto death. No one continues after they are saved. No one.

 

[redleghunter]

According to Scripture whosoever is born of God can not sin.
I did what Scripture teaches to become born of God;
I trust God is faithful.
Thus I claim I am born of God.
I trust Scripture is true.
Thus I claim I agree with Scripture;
That I can not sin.

Do you trust Scripture is true?

When your were naturally born did you believe in God?
Did you at some point choose to believe in God?
Did you confess your belief IN God, TO God?
Did God forgive you for not believing IN Him?
Did you become born of God?
Do you think Gods forgiveness and Seed to birth your new spirit failed, and you can still or again DENY belief in God?

I can't. His Power keeps me in standing WITH Him, thus I can not sin.

And the bottom line is; there are only two standings; WITH or AGAINST God.
Matt 12:30

There is no in-between. There is no pretense that men teach; that uh you can be saved, born again, but, but, but still kinda sorta stand against God.

And your view would be?

God Bless,
SBC


God Bless,
SBC

I take your answer to be you have not sinned since born of the Spirit.

Do you have this view because when you do stumble the Father sees the Son instead of you and you are automatically covered by the Blood of Christ?

Or you truly believe you can't sin?

If the second, how do you know for sure? Have you not had angry thoughts? Gossiping? Coveted?

 

[SBC]

Are you saying? That I can sin? But, you can not?

"You" can do what you choose to do. As well, I can choose what "I" choose to do.
You appear to support sin. I choose otherwise.
And you flat out, make accusations against my choices, against me personally.
To each his own!

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

The key to the verses in John are the verb tenses. The verses are not simple one time action verbs. They are verbs of a present tense which referred to an in going continuous action. It is not saying whomever is born if God does not sin ever. The tense is better understood by saying whomever is born of God does not sin in a continuous fashion.

Thanks for your mindful perspective and understanding.

It is not saying whomever is born if God does not sin ever.

Correct. It does not use your words. So lets use Scriptures words.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You only need to figure out IF YOU, are "whosoever", like some are.
Then you can "understand" WHY.

The WHY, is plainly told; for and because

The tense is better understood by saying whomever is born of God does not sin in a continuous fashion.

Better understood? Better understood by what men's minds concoct and add to scripture. "continuous fashion" ?

How convenient, for men to CHANGE "CAN NOT SIN", to "continuous fashion".

What nonsense! You are basically saying, CAN NOT SIN, "really" means, you can continue to sin, in a "different" fashion.

What you have said is from minds of men, and understanding of men; NOT Gods.
What you have said, CHANGES Gods TRUTH into a lie.
Trust God, in what His words provide for you to know; His Truth.

Rom 1
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

rjs330

The key to the verses in John are the verb tenses. The verses are not simple one time action verbs. They are verbs of a present tense which referred to an in going continuous action. It is not saying whomever is born if God does not sin ever. The tense is better understood by saying whomever is born of God does not sin in a continuous fashion.

I don't know what "fashion" of sin you think IS better understood, that one, born of God, CAN DO, that God forgot to forgive and cover and remember no more, and apparently also forgot to sanctify them; and sits in the wings, waiting, (because He doesn't know), what men, (submitted to His Power) will do. He probably, is bewildered at your teaching, of your mindful understanding of scripture is BETTER than His! ugh!

The KEY, is to trust Gods Word, and seek God for His Understanding.

God Bless,
SBC