Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[redleghunter]

Thanks for sharing what applies to you.

God Bless,
SBC

It applies to all the ekklesia. John wrote his letters to the ekklesia.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I have seen this verse posted Adnauseam.
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I believe it is time for clarification, we need to do some investigating and determine just "WHO" it is, John is actually speaking to.
1 John 1:1-5
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)
3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4) And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1) Christians
2) Non Christians

Normally it would be hard to believe someone who claims to know Scripture could think they may be addressed to unbelievers, buyt given the manifest level of deception exampled by those who imagine Scripture actually teaches believers cannot sin, then i can understand why they would need to contrive this text as only applying to the lost, contrary to context:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1)

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:1-2)

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

Here we see believers clearly identified as "we," with the other party, "you," also being believers, though secondarily would benefit seekers. Thus the only correct answer to your question is Christians.

 

[JIMINZ]

It applies to all the ekklesia. John wrote his letters to the ekklesia.

.
Who be dees Ekklesia, be day Christian Believer Ekklesia, or some other Unbelieving Ekklesia such as dee Jews an dee Gentiles be?

 

[SBC]

As you (if a actual believer) are also seated together with Christ in Heaven, (Ephesians 2:6; cf. Phil. 3:21) thus to be consistent with your one-dimensional position in which your positional status in Christ is the only reality, then you not only never sin against God, even if you commit adultery with your body and then commit murder ("[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Trespass AGAINST men? Yes. Sin AGAINST God? No.") [/FONT]but you never have to deal with being tired, or restricted to being in one place, etc.
(So-called) Christian Science anyone?

Yet you are accountable to God for what you do in your boy toward others.

No, that is not what Scripture teaches, as shown, and to assert that believers cannot sin is itself sin, since Scripture shows that they can sin, and are chastened for so doing, and exhorts them not to sin, and provides forgiveness for them when thy do, and denying that they they have sinned is condemned.

As said and shown before, contrary to you, mistreating others is sin against God as well as them, and obviously if born again believers do not and cannot sin then John would not be exhorting them not to, and to confess when they do, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they do, nor would God sometimes need to chasten them, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners.

None of the texts i quoted as evidencing that believers sin is addressed only to those not born of God, but these are actually who is being directly addressed.

But 2 Peter 3:16 applies to those who claim those who are born of God never can or do sin, as Scripture defines it.

No, that is not what Scripture teaches, as shown, and to assert that believers cannot sin

If you are going to attempt to lecture me....could you at least, NOT make assertions FOR ME. Otherwise, you are only lecturing yourself on what you say!

Surely you must know the difference between a BELIEVER and a BELIEVER who is born of God.

Surely you must know, I was speaking of men BORN OF GOD.

Surely you must know, there is that itty bitty thingy between BELIEVING, and COMMITMENT to God.

Any man can believe, then stop believing.... Good grief, did you MISS the whole chapters of Scripture with the disciples following Jesus around for three years?

Did you MISS, them believing, THEN doubting? Did you MISS, them believing, THEN denying? Did you MISS, Judas believing, THEN standing against Jesus and betray Him?

Did you MISS, them CONFESSING their Belief, TO CHIRST?

Did you MISS, them THERE AFTER, NEVER, AGAIN, doubting, denying, not believing?

Did you MISS, them receiving the Holy Spirit?

Did you MISS, the lesson?
Believers CAN, not believe, deny, reject, sin.
Men born of God, CAN NOT SIN.

You think God gives a man His HOLY SPIRIT, To DWELL IN A MAN...while the man SINS?

Because THAT IS WHAT YOU PREACH. And not in the least do I fall for your nonsense.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

level of deception exampled by those who imagine Scripture actually teaches believers cannot sin

Speaking of deception and imagination.... kudos to you.

Scripture says "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".

No one was deceiving or imagining, but you.

Scripture has clearly been given, "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".

If you believe THAT ^ is deceiving and imagining....have at it....don't be shy....
make your claims that you DENY "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JIMINZ]

Normally it would be hard to believe someone who claims to know Scripture could think they may be addressed to unbelievers, buyt given the manifest level of deception exampled by those who imagine Scripture actually teaches believers cannot sin, then i can understand why they would need to contrive this text as only applying to the lost, contrary to context:

.
I only asked for opinions as to what others believed the verses were written to, nowhere in my post did I ask for personal attacks.

But I Forgive you your Trespass.

Mat 18:21,22
21) Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22) Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[SBC]

.
I only asked for opinions as to what others believed the verses were written to, nowhere in my post did I ask for personal attacks.

But I Forgive you your Trespass.

A man in understanding. How refreshing!

God Bless,
SBC

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Well, my, my .... It is bold of you to credit me with "a man born of God can not sin"..... when it is clearly scripture which says that, that I trust and believe.

It is not I that wrestles with Scripture, but you.

Which is just what cultist say when their own contrivances of Scripture are exposed, and you have even less of a leg to stand on than those who assert that since Jesus said "Take eat, this is my body that is broken for you," then it mean that Jesus was giving them His real body that would be crucified, to eat (though in the form of bread which actually ceased to exist, though it would scientifically test as being so, while the body of Christ that appeared as bread no longer exists in that from once the non-existent bread begins to decay).

Which is only correctly understood when examined in the light of other pertinent inspired texts, including the inspired record of how the NT church understood the gospels.
But your "misunderstanding" (to be charitable) of Scripture is far less excusable.

Look at your own words....accusations.
~ wrestling, damnable, exposing, unrighteous, no distinction between sin and trespass
Eph 2
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Whelp, someone made a distinction or a typo, that perhaps should have said:
trespasses and trespasses?

Which, as with the case with your mishandling of Scriprture, is another example of isolationist eisegesis, lifting what i said out of the context which defines what i meant by my charge:

Indeed look at what I said: "Yet the distinction btwn "sin" and trespass is artificial, as the same word (hamartanō) for sins against God is also used for sins against men, (cf. Luke 15:18,21; 17:3-4; 1Co. 8:12; 2 Peter 2:4)"

Thus "trespass" cannot be restricted to sins against men, while nowhere did I mention Eph. 2:1, yet nowhere does that even support the premise that trespasses simply refers to those against men, or makes a distinction btwn what sins are for a believer which need to be forgiven.

Instead, further searching of Scripture reveals that the word (paraptōma, a deviation...) used for "trespasses" in Eph. 2:1 is used for all sin, even in texts before and right below Eph. 2:1 as well as other places:

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins [paraptōma], according to the riches of his grace; (Ephesians 1:7)

Even when we were dead in sins [paraptōma], hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved (Ephesians 2:5)

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses [paraptōma]; (Colossians 2:13)

Who was delivered for our offences [paraptōma], and was raised again for our justification.(Rom 4:25)

The manifest reality is that, like as their are different words used in parallelisms for God, Israel, the law (as often in Psalm 119) etc, so also their are different words used for sin which refer to coming short of, breaking, deviating from the word of God as regard obedience. This can refer to what something is, or the practice of it, or by the evil which it is. When Isaiah 59:2, states, "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear," it is not saying that iniquities (moral evil) is different from breaking the law of God (sins), as the latter is the former, and the former is the latter.

Ya, gee, don't ya hate it what what you get from Scripture is artificial?

When is not what we see from Scripture but from thee.

Geeze, and me, I just trust Scripture is the Truth..............wow....

How...damnable.....wow.....what a wrestle.....wow.....laughable.

Sounds just like what the devil said in Mt. 4, "it is written," misconstruing Scripture as you do.

And whoever Robertson is, is not your key to understanding Scripture.

Such are helps, in contrast to your esoteric elitism.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

.
I only asked for opinions as to what others believed the verses were written to, nowhere in my post did I ask for personal attacks.

But I Forgive you your Trespass.

There was no individual named as holding to such, but the charge only applies to those for whom the shoe fits. Thus if it is your shoe size then you should own it.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Speaking of deception and imagination.... kudos to you.

Scripture says "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".

No one was deceiving or imagining, but you.

Scripture has clearly been given, "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".

If you believe THAT ^ is deceiving and imagining....have at it....don't be shy....
make your claims that you DENY "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".

God Bless,
SBC

And since Scripture has clearly been given that shows believers being called sinners, and exhorting them not to sin, and to confess when they do as needing forgiveness, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they confess, and that God sometimes needs to chasten them for sinning, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners, then it is
obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert. And to assert that is deception.

And since the issue is interpretation, then you are either exampling ignorance or sophistical insolence by arguing a text taken in isolation from what Scripture teaches, as shown, is what it means.

 

[redleghunter]

.
Who be dees Ekklesia, be day Christian Believer Ekklesia, or some other Unbelieving Ekklesia such as dee Jews an dee Gentiles be?

?

 

[redleghunter]

Here we see believers clearly identified as "we," with the other party, "you," also being believers, though secondarily would benefit seekers. Thus the only correct answer to your question is Christians.

Yes "we" and "us" sure does sound like a corporate group of like faith or belief. Which means John is addressing the ekklesia as we do not see any apostles preach the gospel to unbelievers via letter in the NT especially Acts. It is always personal contact in public or synagogue.

Now of course if we take "we" as outsiders then the preamble of the US Constitution must have been meant for the King of England. /s



We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

If you are going to attempt to lecture me....could you at least, NOT make assertions FOR ME. Otherwise, you are only lecturing yourself on what you say!

Surely you must know the difference between a BELIEVER and a BELIEVER who is born of God.

Surely you must know, I was speaking of men BORN OF GOD.

Surely you must know, there is that itty bitty thingy between BELIEVING, and COMMITMENT to God...

Did you MISS, them receiving the Holy Spirit?

Did you MISS, the lesson?
Believers CAN, not believe, deny, reject, sin.
Men born of God, CAN NOT SIN.

Stop the ignorance. I clearly stated, "Obviously if born again believers do not and cannot sin then John would not be exhorting them not to, and to confess when they do, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they do, nor would God sometimes need to chasten them, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners."

As is obvious from what i wrote and referenced, I was not referring to mere intellectual believers, and who departed from the faith, but born again believers whom you do assert cannot sin, but which Scripture teaches can and do.

You think God gives a man His HOLY SPIRIT, To DWELL IN A MAN...while the man SINS?

That is quite obvious, otherwise He would not be grieved and convicting the sinning believer to repent, or be in souls who were yet carnal and could even join Christ to a harlot:

And grieve [distress] not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:5-8)

The Corinthians were yet carnal, yet Paul stated in appealing them not to sin:

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (1 Corinthians 6:15)

David himself had the Spirit, "The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue," (2 Samuel 23:2) and thus prayed after he sinned, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." (Psalms 51:11)

Did you MISS, them believing, THEN doubting? Did you MISS, them believing, THEN denying? Did you MISS, Judas believing, THEN standing against Jesus and betray Him?

The believers Paul warns against grieving the Spirit, and states were carnal (1 Co. 3:3ff) and who could defile the church and join Christ to a harlot, were not mere believers.

That born again believers can deny the Lord is contrary to asserting born again believers cannot sin, while making those who were said to have the Spirit, yet were carnal, and are warned against sinning to merely being believers is contrary to the texts.

Because THAT IS WHAT YOU PREACH. And not in the least do I fall for your nonsense. SBC

What is non-sense is that you maintain your mantra despite Scripture after Scripture refuting you.

I have some important work to do before in the next 24 hours and you are not worthy of more time now.

 

[SBC]

And since Scripture has clearly been given that shows believers being called sinners,

And since that has already been acknowledged....
Kinda hard not to notice, sin, forgiven with animals blood, sin, sin, sin, he sins, she, sins, everybody, sin, sin, sin, for 4,000 years, taught, spoken, sin, sin, sin.

and exhorting them not to sin, and to confess when they do as needing forgiveness, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they confess,

Exhorting them not to sin? Gee, what a concept. And the forgiveness....oh yes, don't forget that, "yearly" festival!! Forgive, forgive, forgive. TRADITIONS! ANIMALS BLOOD!
And what? How did the majority of the men do? Obviously not so good, since they "practiced" sinning, and forgiving with ANIMALS BLOOD!

and that God sometimes needs to chasten them for sinning, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners,

Awe, a consequence for SINNING. Gee, what a concept. Certainly not like the WORLD today, whereby NOT doing right, and doing WRONG, is routinely, rewarded!

then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.

Now, see what happens when, you attempt to speak on behalf of God, when you do not know or understand the Truth? Referring to your comment....

then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.

First of all, you are not speaking on behalf of me. Because what I was speaking of, was in direct relationship to Scripture. You are speaking on behalf of God.

Secondly, as you skipped on past, men for 4,000 years, were SINNING, being forgiven, with ANIMAL'S BLOOD.

Even at the time of Jesus' arrival on earth; Men were still sacrificing ANIMAL'S BLOOD.
Even after Jesus' departure; Men were still sacrificing ANIMAL"S BLOOD.

Apparently, you are unaware of HOW Scripture it taught. Because IF you knew, you would KNOW, it is taught, to men by association of what MEN in their little pea brain can relate to.

Do you think God arrived on scene, and ANNOUNCED, He is the "FATHER" of all men?
No, that was Moses, who was taught, "A" Father, is the head of a family, a people, a tribe. It was Moses, who FIRST declared God in Heaven, is the "FATHER" of all.

So about the Disciples/ Apostles, the men Jesus chose to go and teach.
Who WERE they "teaching"? Gee...
Oh ya, MEN who were STILL, making BLOOD ANIMAL Sacrifices, for forgiveness of WHAT? "their sins"!!

And Paul, who was he teaching? Oh ya, the Gentiles, WHO HAD NEVER, practiced Animal Sacrifices, for forgiveness of their sins!

So, WHO is the scripture speaking TO, about committing SINS?

The answer IS; Everyone who; continues to "get" their forgiveness from Animals Blood, and everyone who, is not committed to Christ.

And why does the concept of committing SINS, being spoken to THEM, resonate with them? Gee, does 4,000 years of tradition, ring a bell?

So, WHY, 70 years after Jesus ascended, did the Jews STOP, sacrificing Animals Blood?
Because, they all of a sudden, believed Jesus was their Messiah?

No, Because ALL OF A SUDDEN, their Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. And according to Jewish Law, the sacrifice must be made, in the Temple in Jerusalem.

So, WHY, didn't the Gentiles, immediately, get the concept of Jesus' BLOOD, replacing, Animals' Blood?

Gee, hummm. Oh ya, duh. Gentiles were NOT STEEPED in knowledge of the "Jewish" God, they hadn't been making ANY blood sacrifices. WOW, what a new concept. Getting WASHED in another mans BLOOD!! Sounds inviting doesn't it?

So what a JOB for Paul, eh? Paul, a Jew with a Jewish mother, himself a Jewish Pharisee, and himself a Roman citizen, with a Roman father..... Teaching Gentiles, OLD LAWS, that do not APPLY, while teaching a NEW WAY, that does APPLY.

Many Gentiles were eager to listen to Paul, and believe in Christ. But then, do not forget, their own history. Steeped in the knowledge of God, right? Wrong.

So, were some Gentiles BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit.....without knowing all the "do's and don't's". Gee, HOW COULD THAT BE? Doesn't God require a man to be perfect, BEFORE, he is Baptized with the Holy Spirit? No.

So, do you WONDER why Paul Continued and Kept teaching Gentiles, in submission to Christ, HOW to serve Christ, according to His Way?

Are you, a NEWLY converted saved and born again person? Did you learn HOW TO serve the Lord, BEFORE, you converted? Were you an ADULT, before you had heard anything ABOUT the Jewish God? Because THAT was the times, in which Paul taught Gentiles: and they were taught by familiar terms.

It appears SIN, is a familiar term to you, "since", you appear content to "own it", and "appears" you are in agreement with some others, who, CONTINUE to sin.

Apparently, you MISS, the importance of CHRIST'S BLOOD. It was a ONE TIME event, that He gave HIS BLOOD, for forgiveness of ALL SIN.

See, His BLOOD, has a FOREVER Power, unlike the temporary and necessity to repeat, Animal's Blood.

Jesus' BLOOD is the LAST Sacrifice, for forgiveness of SIN.

When a man submits to the Lord, to be washed IN JESUS' BLOOD - it's a done deal.
The man is forgiven ALL of His SINS. THAT is why Scripture teaches;

Matt 26
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 3
[28] Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Luke 1
[77] To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luke 5
[20] And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Acts 2

1. [38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out

Acts 22
[16] And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 4
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Eph 2

1. [1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Col 1
[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Heb 1
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 8
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

1 Pet 2

1. 
   
   
   • [24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 John 1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Rev 1 [5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And to assert that is deception.

then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.

Cannot mean...."whosoever is born of God, can not sin"....???

It really is of NO CONSEQUENCE to me, that you reject what Scripture teaches.

And while what I have said may benefit you, it is moreso, for bystanders; since it has escaped your notice. I am not the one objecting to Scriptures, you are.

And since the issue is interpretation, then you are either exampling ignorance or sophistical insolence by arguing a text taken in isolation from what Scripture teaches, as shown, is what it means.

It is not about "interpretation", and solely, is about understanding, specifically Gods Understanding. Not mine, not yours.

And to assert that is deception.

Mark 7
[13] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Stop the ignorance. I clearly stated,

I clearly stated;



I truly BELIEVE and TRUST Gods Word. He says I CAN NOT SIN. I trust, HIS TRUTH.

you clearly stated; post # 759

No, that is not what Scripture teaches, as shown, and to assert that believers cannot sin is itself sin

Try to keep up, with which post you are responding to.

As is obvious from what i wrote and referenced, I was not referring to mere intellectual believers, and who departed from the faith, but born again believers whom you do assert cannot sin, but which Scripture teaches can and do.

Obviously, you have difficulty with repeating EXACT language of what someone else says. Highlighted, in the scripture itself.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I have some important work to do before in the next 24 hours and you are not worthy of more time now.

God Bless you.
I hope you do find something more worthy to do then preach against Scripture.
SBC

 

[GenemZ]

Scripture claims IF one is born of God he can not sin. I agree with Scripture.
There is no therefore. I don't testify for you.

God Bless,
SBC

So... Are you saying then? ...

That from the way you read it? I can not be saved if I sin. Correct?

That only people who no longer sin can be the saved. Correct?

I would like to understand the thoughts and intents of your heart, please.

Thank you.

 

[GenemZ]

Thanks for sharing what applies to you.

God Bless,
SBC

There is a false doctrine for every evil desire a believer may have to be snatched out from the Scriptures.

The one that appeals your pride? Is thinking you can not sin... And, that those believers who know they can sin, are not saved.

Pride is a terrible sin. You must have a very limited scope of what sins are if that be the case. Very limited.

 

[JIMINZ]

Col 2:8-15
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.



Rom. 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal. 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


When Sin is the Transgression of the Law, how does someone who is DEAD to the Law, Sin?

 

[GenemZ]

Col 2:8-15
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.



Rom. 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal. 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


When Sin is the Transgression of the Law, how does someone who is DEAD to the Law, Sin?

You are confusing the forgiveness for sins, with there being no consequences at all for sins.

The problem with our sins is not that we will not be forgiven for all our sins. We have been on the Cross. No believer is going to lose his salvation for that reason!

But? Even though our sins are forgiven? God can not make Himself one with sin. That's the problem! For when a believer commits a "forgiven" sin? The Holy Spirit must instantly stop being one with that believer! God can not be one with sin! That is why Jesus says in Revelation that he must stand outside of believers who sin and "knock." The knocking is discipline to get that slidden believer's attention that something is wrong.

Once we acknowledge our sins (which will never condemn us!)... Then Jesus enters and sups with us on truth in the power of the Spirit. The Spirit who has returned to being one with us after "acknowledging" our sin! (1Jn 1:9)

Please! Don't confuse all our sins having been forgiven for being totally free of any consequences for wrong behavior. No wrong thing a believer can do can get God to forsake him in the Lake of Fire. But, that believer will lose fellowship with God when he sins, because God can not remain one with a believer who is walking according to his flesh. That is why believers are admonished not to walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit! Believers! Not unbelievers! Believers can walk after their flesh if they so choose. And? Their sins will never condemn them! They will be going to heaven.

If I commit a sin? It can not condemn me before God because of the blood of Jesus! But, it sure can cut me off from God's grace! For God opposes the proud believer!

"But he gives us greater grace. That is why Scripture says:

“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.”
​

James 4:6, was speaking about two kinds of believers!

 

[SBC]

So... Are you saying then? ...

That from the way you read it? I can not be saved if I sin. Correct?

That only people who no longer sin can be the saved. Correct?

I would like to understand the thoughts and intents of your heart, please.

Thank you.

I said, Scripture says, a man born of God can not sin.
I said I believe scripture.

That is what I said.

I would like to understand the thoughts and intents of your heart, please.

The thoughts of my heart:
is I believe in the Lord, and TOLD Him.
is I trust the Lord is Faithful.
is I trust what Scripture says is true.
is ONCE, I became born of God, I am forever, WITH, the Lord.
is God has made me WHOLE, body, soul, spirit.
is God has given me FULL faithfulness to Him only.
is God KEEPS me in FULL faithfulness to Him only.
is I can never again SIN, stand against the Lord.

The intents of my heart:
is to reveal the truth of what the Lord has done for me
is all men sin, and some men might choose to be freed from SIN.
is all men who choose to be freed from SIN, and be in standing WITH the Lord, can do
...so, by also calling on the Lord and confessing their belief in Him, and He shall also
...free them from Sin, and their standing be WITH the Lord forever.

It appears, some men choose, to call on the Lord, submit to the Lord, be forgiven their Sins, and yet testify, they CONTINUE, to stand against the Lord, by CONTINUING to Sin.

Scripture says, IF they are born of God, they can no longer Sin, they can not Sin.
Yet some men claim, they are born of God, and continue to Sin.

Some men, will defy Scripture, call it wrong, misunderstood, attempt to change what it says, accuse others who trust to believe Scripture.........IN AN ATTEMPT, to justify, their own claims, of being born of God, and continuing to Sin.

I do not believe, men born of God, continue to Sin......
THEY testify THEY DO continue to Sin.

So, we have men, WHO are speaking, WHOM anyone can hear or read what they say -
So, a man in disbelief, a man just submitting to Christ, a man with little knowledge and understanding of Scripture ~ listening to such testimonies....

Understands what?
Gods Christ's BLOOD, is no different than Animal's BLOOD?
NOTHING CHANGED?

But the TRUTH IS, everything within a man changed.
Christ's BLOOD, given ONCE, forgives all sin of a man, who believes and trusts Him.
And the Seed of God, within a man, changes a man, forever.

WHAT CHANGE? By some men's teaching, WHAT changed within a man? Nothing!
They continue to Sin, stand against the Lord, and repeatedly ask God to forgive them.

So, only such men, can explain, to an other, HOW Christ's BLOOD, the Seed of God, fails in KEEPING a man FREED from Sin, and WHY, since nothing changes, they should bother to convert.

Explain that Gene -
Explain WHY a man should become forgiven, converted, freed of sin, when you teach; you don't believe it.

What I am asking YOU, is, Why should a man, listen to you, become interested in conversion, when you give them two opposites, of your belief?

Freed from sin, but not really?

God Bless,
SBC