Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[ToBeLoved]

Yes. I think some want to think of themselves as Christ sees them, as they will be in the new heavens and new earth. Seems like salesmanship to me; presenting a product as more than it is, ignoring its defects and unsuitability, just to make the sale.

So are we selling to ourselves then?

Because whose opinion besides Christ really matters.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have consistently said I do not commit willful sins in all threads.

I used to believe that before I studied how God views sin. He's the one that matters. You believe sin is sin, He doesn't.

There are even sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death.

I hope you steer clear of those sins unto death then.

 

[GenemZ]

I sin no more, any kind of sin.

God Bless,
SBC

That's foolish to say...

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."​

You are simply confessing your spiritual bankruptcy. That was 1 John 1:8.

There is no sense arguing with you. For you continuously sin over this issue.

"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."​

That was 1 John 1:10.

I am not here to argue with you. For I know... You'll fight it and take passages out of their context to make your stand appear to be standing.

But, the Word of God can not contradict itself... Like you do to the truth.

 

[JIMINZ]

You haven’t said that you do not sin in this thread?

Everyone that makes that argument comes up with a willful vs non willful sin or some variation to give themselves a net.

The fact is that the Bible talks about sin. God is Holy and any sin is sin. And we all repent for sins we don’t realize we do, but to work that into sin theology does not recognize that any sin against God’s Holiness is sin. And that is how God defines it.

.
If you would, could you please quote the Scripture where it says, "Any sin is against God's Holiness"

This is sin.
1 Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You are correct in one aspect though, Sin is Sin, there aren't degrees of sin, there aren't Willful sins, and Unknowing sins.

Jas. 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[GenemZ]

.
If you would, could you please quote the Scripture where it says, "Any sin is against God's Holiness"

This is sin.
1 Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You are correct in one aspect though, Sin is Sin, there aren't degrees of sin, there aren't Willful sins, and Unknowing sins.

Jas. 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If anyone driving down the road swerves into the wrong lane into oncoming traffic, either.. "willfully"...or unknowingly... are still finding them self breaking the law.

Likewise... sin has the same result in breaking fellowship with God no matter if it was intended, or not. But the one having done so willfully, when standing before the judge has also compounded his sins. For swerving into the lane of oncoming traffic intentionally is breaking the law in multiple ways. Unintentional is only in one way. But, both are sin.

 

[JIMINZ]

That's foolish to say...

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."​

You are simply confessing your spiritual bankruptcy. That was 1 John 1:8.

There is no sense arguing with you. For you continuously sin over this issue.

"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."​

That was 1 John 1:10.

I am not here to argue with you. For I know... You'll fight it and take passages out of their context to make your stand appear to be standing.

But, the Word of God can not contradict itself... Like you do to the truth.

.

Would you please explain HOW verses in Chapter 1 below, are able to refute subsequent verses in Chapter 3 which hadn't even been written yet by John.
1 Jn. 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

How do those verses above refute subsequent verses in Chapter 3 below?
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[JIMINZ]

If anyone driving down the road swerves into the wrong lane into oncoming traffic, either.. "willfully"...or unknowingly... are still finding them self breaking the law.

Likewise... sin has the same result in breaking fellowship with God no matter if it was intended, or not. But the one having done so willfully, when standing before the judge has also compounded his sins. For swerving into the lane of oncoming traffic intentionally is breaking the law in multiple ways. Unintentional is only in one way. But, both are sin.

.
If your going to answer a question not addressed to you, then don't sidestep the question asked.

 

[GenemZ]

.

Would you please explain HOW verses in Chapter 1 below.
1 Jn. 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

How do those verses above refute subsequent verses in Chapter 3 below?
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That is because translators do not take the time to give an exhaustive translation of 1 John 3:9.

Here is closer rendition to how it would have read to the Greek thinking mind...

"Whosoever at the moment he is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (continue) sin, because he is born of God."

Being able to not sin by God's grace was unheard of prior to the Church age. John was giving an example of how his listeners could be sin free. For at the moment they first believed (Spirit Filled) they knew that they could not sin.. So? That proved it can be done! And, that now that they have been given this grace from God they are made able not to sin because they are now born of God.

You have to understand the background for what that was said.

Before the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to all who believed OT saints were always in a state of impotence not to sin in their minds. They may have not sinned overtly because of the fear of reprisal as found in the Law. But, mentally they would sin. John was telling them...

"Now its different! Remember when you were first saved? You could not sin at that point in time. And, that same grace continues being available... for anyone born of God will now not continue to sin like he had been doing before the Church age began.

"Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow." (1 Peter 1:10-11)​

We (in Christ) now have been given grace power not to sin! Before the Holy Spirit was given to indwell every believer? That could not be said about their sins.

John was teaching them a new way of living in the Spirit. And, used their first moment of believing as proof of the power not to sin.

If that does not explain it? You have John contradicting himself. If you want to hear lessons being taught from the Greek by a pastor who was a Greek scholar, please PM me. The Word of God can not lie against itself. You make John to contradict his own teachings. Translations are a problem from time to time. This is one of those examples.

 

[JIMINZ]

We should distinguish between serious mortal sin and lesser venial sin.

Our souls in the spiritual realm are tangled up with both God's Spirit and the powers of darkness; that is the human condition. Only in the new heavens and new earth will the powers of darkness be gone.

.
There are no degrees of sin.

1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

All sin is sin, not different types.

 

[GenemZ]

.
If your going to answer a question not addressed to you, then don't sidestep the question asked.

God's Holiness is his immutable righteousness. Only those who reflect back righteousness in how they walk will not be sinning. Anything not of "faith" is sin! That means? "Faith comes by hearing the Word of God." (Romans 10:17). Faith is what we come to "believe" in agreement with the Word of God. The Word of God tells us what God expects from us. What He expects must be synchronized with His Holiness! His immutable integrity of being!

 

[JIMINZ]

"Whosoever at the moment he is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (continue) sin, because he is born of God."

.
Ok, for the sake of argument, I will ask.

If what you now say is in fact true, at what point the does the born again believer begin again to sin, because the Holy Spirit is still remaining in the believer, and it is still said that, that is the reason he doesn't sin, and also that he cannot sin because he (the believer) is born of God, even in your authority's rendition of said verse.

So then, there are two reasons why a believer does not and cannot sin.
1) The Born Again Believer has the Seed of God remaining in him.
2) Because he is born of God.

 

[SBC]

Then I will ask you the same question as the : So are we do assume that you have arrived at the stage in which you do not sin, but keep the command to love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and your neighbor as yourself, without fail day by day?

Very simply - Yes I love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, strength and mind.

Very simply - Yes I love all people.

More complex - At times there are people that I love that I also have a dislike for.
The complexity of that is: is understanding love is not interrupted; the love is constant; and dislike comes and goes, from time to time.

How long as it been since you achieved this status,

Years in achieving; Years since achieving; Content daily, but not satisfied, that I believe more can be accomplished.

and what will be the end of penitent believers who over practice righteousness but never attain to the sinless level?

No such thing, IMO, as "over practice".
No such thing, for a man "to attain sinless level" in this current life;
Men who sin no more, are not sinless. The are forgiven their sins.
Perhaps, a gift from God, after all is restored; IDK.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Tayla]

So are we selling to ourselves then?

Yes, pretending we are something we are not.

Because whose opinion besides Christ really matters.

The truth matters. Jesus is the way, truth, and life. He doesn't say we are without sin, perfect, and flawless once we become Christians.

 

[Tayla]

There are no degrees of sin.

Tell that to the pope.

 

[SBC]

That sir is rank unScriptural heresy.

You are without understanding.
No it is not heresy.

Sin by definition is "the transgression of the law," (1 John 3:4) which, as seen in the 10 commandments themselves, deals with both offenses directly against God, as well as against men. "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Galatians 5:14)

You quoting a law, is irrelevant, in that; men who do not believe, can not keep the law.
Men who believe and are born of God can only keep the law by Gods Power.

So then - When you transgress against the Law, concerning God, concerning men -
WHAT is your standing?

Your standing is AGAINST God! Period.
For your standing to be WITH God, one MUST BELIEVE in God & BE submitted to God.
Believe IN MEN? No. Believe in God.
For your standing to be WITH God, one MUST REPENT to God, for NOT Believing in Him.
You can NOT, love the Lord, with all your being. You only have the power to BELIEVE.
God gives you the POWER to love the Lord with all your being, and to Love your neighbor as yourself. And that POWER is only effected WHEN your standing is WITH the Lord.

It is not about the LAW - pay attention. Men alone fail, they can not keep the law.

It is ABOUT God and where a man stands - precise and to the Point.

Matt; 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me.

And which is the very thing John himself refers to in the same chapter as "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (which refers to what one characteristically "doeth") as an example of what sin is:

Sin is standing against God. Period.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [see 334]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:9-15)

Thus rather than being able to fail to love his brother as himself yet say he has kept the faith, "if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." (1 Timothy 5:8)

The contrast John sets forth is btwn the believer who practices righteousness (which includes repentance) versus the wicked who practice sin, with how one treats others being what manifests sin. But according to your perverse definition, if a believer murders his brother than he has not sinned!

Among others, Godly Joseph reproves you saying when tempted by the seductress, Potiphar's wife,

There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness [adultery], and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9)

Likewise David in doing what Joseph would not:

And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. (2 Samuel 12:13)

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. (Psalms 51:4)

And consistent with this, the Law saith,

If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the Lord, and lie unto his neighbour in that which was delivered him to keep, or in fellowship, or in a thing taken away by violence, or hath deceived his neighbour...Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty, that he shall restore that which he took violently away...(Leviticus 6:2,4)

And in the NT, to sin against the brethren is to sin against Christ:
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:12)

Meaning that what Scripture clearly teaches can be denied under the premise of esoteric elitism, with the Antinomianism that John actually countered

A man standing WITH the Lord or a man standing AGAINST the Lord is final division.

And a major purpose of Jesus coming to earth; was to cultivate the division, stir it up, get it underway, for the Jews who had been lax, for the Gentiles to begin hearing, and men to make their decisions of where they would STAND; with or without God.

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

God Bless,
SBC

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, pretending we are something we are not.

The truth matters. Jesus is the way, truth, and life. He doesn't say we are without sin, perfect, and flawless once we become Christians.

I didn’t say He does.

You joined a conversation I was having with someone who does. Not me.

 

[redleghunter]

I sin no more, any kind of sin.

God Bless,
SBC

Please explain.

 

[SBC]

The truth matters. Jesus is the way, truth, and life.

Agree.

He doesn't say we are without sin, perfect, and flawless once we become Christians.

Agree. He never says a man is, without sin, flawless or Christian.

However what Scripture does say; a man born of God, can not sin. 1 John 3:9
However what Scripture does say; a man with the Lord, is perfect. Deut 18:13

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JIMINZ]

Tell that to the pope.

.
Pope are you kidding, really?

 

[JIMINZ]

That sir is rank unScriptural heresy.

.
Are you able to define Heresy?