Did Men Really Walk On The Moon?

[Leaf473]

"Choose to believe". Now THERE is some nonsense!

I thu k it was some American philosopher who said
the unexamined life isn't worth living.

That's nonsense to you?

Hi Estrid, this is the conspiracy theory section, so I don't want to go into too much detail, but I in my experience, everyone chooses to believe something, including atheists.

One example is that most atheists choose to believe that other people are conscious the way they are. There's no objective evidence for that.

I'd love to talk more on the subject, if there's an existing thread or something in the ethics and morality section or something like that

 

[ozso]

Of course people choose what they believe and disbelieve in. And they have the right to believe and disbelieve.

It's ironic that those who preach so much about diversity, mock those who have beliefs diverse from their own. Who say people can identify with this and that and there's nothing wrong with it. But if they identify as a flat-eather, they're in idiot, they're insane etc. All that precious tolerance goes right out the window.

 

[The Liturgist]

No, i am not, you are confused. you are the one trusting in the lies of man.

I have provided you with two observations you can do, one of which, confirming the existence of artificial satellites and their artificial nature, can be done with the naked eye or with an inexpensive telescope, depending on what you are trying to see.

The other, flying over the south pole, is more expensive, but it is not beyond the realm of affordability if you and 200-300 flat Earthers wanted to put to the test your belief in a vast Edenic world hidden in the interior of Antarctica as depicted in the Flat Earth film The Next Level or an ice wall surrounding the Earth, or alternately see if there is a south pole after all.

 

[The Liturgist]

Of course people choose what they believe and disbelieve in. And they have the right to believe and disbelieve.

It's ironic that those who preach so much about diversity, mock those who have beliefs diverse from their own. Who say people can identify with this and that and there's nothing wrong with it. But if they identify as a flat-eather, they're in idiot, they're insane etc. All that precious tolerance goes right out the window.

Well I suppose its a good thing I don’t preach about diversity then. I mean to be clear, I am not a racist and I support freedom of religion (with some restrictions onn dangerous cults like Scientology, the Unitarian Universalists, Wahhabi Islam, Wicca and neo-Paganism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the FLDS and the regular LDS for that matter, and yes, I did just liken the UUA, which controls Harvard Divinity School, to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and it felt good), but I am not enthusiastic towards unbridled multiculturalism, and concerning all forms of sexual deviancy, including divorce and remarriage, I am actively intolerant of it.

That said I do begrudgingly support the First Ammendment, because it ensures that the Orwellian reprisals taken by various left-wing governments against clergy who teach what the Bible says about sexual morality. The cost of the First Ammendment is that it also facilitates the propagation of conspiracy theories, many of which are extremely offensive, for example, those theories which deny the Lunar landing or the Space Program, which have been very hurtful for astronauts and their relatives, especially when one considers the lives lost in the Apollo 1 capsule fire, and in the solid rocket booster malfunction that destroyed OV-99 Challenger in 1986, and the damaged heat shield which led to the breakup of OV-102 Columbia in 2003.

 

[Divide]

if you and 200-300 flat Earthers wanted to put to the test your belief

The flat earthers are funny. It's highly entertaining stuff! They almost make it sound sort of plausible, they make a good case for it. The problem I seen with the flat earthers are...people talk.

Ok so mankind used to think the earth was flat. Then Copernicus said maybe not so they killed him for that I think. But the short of it was that, it really is round. But...people talk.

So we was cool with accepting that the earth was a sphere for a couple thousand years or so, now ta-da Flat Earthers say the world is flat after all. Huge huge conspiracy! But then again, people talk!

So here I am going along my merry Christian way and I just love listening to people's Testimonies, don't you?! Visits from heaven. Visits to heaven. Testimonies of being taken above the Earth and translated to a different country for God's work. I love those tesimonies! But, People Talk...!!

I've heard prolly thousands of these type testimonies over the years and you know something? Not one them ever said, oh I saw that the earth was really flat when I was taken up! Not one of them. That would be a big thing to see and human inclination is to share about such extraordinary sights. Wow the earth really is flat! No One ever said that. Not one. People talk and no one mentioned it so I gotta go with, they didn't see a flat earth, it was round as expected!. With no test, no scientists no funding and no problems, Lol!

The r=earth is flat is a rabbit hole conspiracy that probably has it's roots in governmental black bag stuff stuff pubished to give people something stupid to focus on and not the truth of, what is about to happen any day now.

 

[ozso]

Well I suppose its a good thing I don’t preach about diversity then. I mean to be clear, I am not a racist and I support freedom of religion (with some restrictions onn dangerous cults like Scientology, the Unitarian Universalists, Wahhabi Islam, Wicca and neo-Paganism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the FLDS and the regular LDS for that matter, and yes, I did just liken the UUA, which controls Harvard Divinity School, to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and it felt good), but I am not enthusiastic towards unbridled multiculturalism, and concerning all forms of sexual deviancy, including divorce and remarriage, I am actively intolerant of it.

That said I do begrudgingly support the First Ammendment, because it ensures that the Orwellian reprisals taken by various left-wing governments against clergy who teach what the Bible says about sexual morality. The cost of the First Ammendment is that it also facilitates the propagation of conspiracy theories, many of which are extremely offensive, for example, those theories which deny the Lunar landing or the Space Program, which have been very hurtful for astronauts and their relatives, especially when one considers the lives lost in the Apollo 1 capsule fire, and in the solid rocket booster malfunction that destroyed OV-99 Challenger in 1986, and the damaged heat shield which led to the breakup of OV-102 Columbia in 2003.

Do you know how many more hundreds of people have died in taxicab accidents in the last 60 years than have in the space program? Does that make taxicabs sacred ground?

 

[The Liturgist]

Do you know how many more hundreds of people have died in taxicab accidents in the last 60 years than have in the space program? Does that make taxicabs sacred ground?

Certainly. There are many Christians who earn a living as chauffeurs, whether driving taxicabs, or hackney carriages as they are sometimes known, of the conventional metered variety, or livery services like executive sedans, limousines and airport shuttles, or for ride-sharing and food delivery services like Uber, Lyft, and Doordash, and many of them prayerfully suspend crosses or crucifixes from their mirrors, and the memory of taxi drivers and passengers killed in lethal accidents is sacred, and we have multiple agencies in the US that work to ensure safety of highways, traffic control devices, passenger cars and other vehicles, with the result being improvements in safety for taxi, livery and ridesharing passengers.

The difference between the taxi industry and the space program is that there does not exist a large number of people who angrily deny the existence of taxicabs, and thus ridicule the memory and insult the friends and relatives of chauffeurs and passengers. But if the tables were turned and there existed a conspiracy theory of hackney carriage denial, rest assured I would oppose it with all my might.

As it presently stands however, astronauts, engineers and technicians working for NASA and other industries have a unique job, in that it is a job that for astronauts and many technicians can be uniquely dangerous, and at the same suffers from people either denying its reality altogether, or the veracity of its most important accomplishments.

The latter special case concerning the lunar flights a bit like people admitting that hackney carriages exist but denying that they were ever motorized, insisting instead that taxicabs are powered by a team of mules harnessed to the cab, much like how the ridiculous ambulance on the Isle of Sark works, with the chaffeur holding the reins rather than a steering wheel.

 

[d taylor]

I have provided you with two observations you can do, one of which, confirming the existence of artificial satellites and their artificial nature, can be done with the naked eye or with an inexpensive telescope, depending on what you are trying to see.

The other, flying over the south pole, is more expensive, but it is not beyond the realm of affordability if you and 200-300 flat Earthers wanted to put to the test your belief in a vast Edenic world hidden in the interior of Antarctica as depicted in the Flat Earth film The Next Level or an ice wall surrounding the Earth, or alternately see if there is a south pole after all.

I do not need to do any looking into science claims. They can easily be seen as deceptive by a comparison to The Bible's account of God's creation.

But if this will satisfy you i have photographed the iss several times and it is not what they claim it to be 1. it is not 250 miles above the earth 2. it is not traveling at 17,500 miles an hour 3. It is not lit up by the sun but is lit up bu lights on this craft.

 

[d taylor]

The lies of men lay firmly at the feet of all those that spread untruths about a flat earth etc etc etc....

Well like i have said before i am looking forward to the return of Jesus The Messiah. Because the lies of this age will be cast out and i am 100% confident in the description's God has given of His creation in The Bible. That they will be found to be an accurate literal account. That the sun, moon and stars have been place in the dome separating waters from waters. To give light to the earth, that God did not create planets and forgot or failed to mention their creation in The Bible. That the earth has been set on foundations and can not move.

 

[prodromos]

But if this will satisfy you i have photographed the iss several times and it is not what they claim it to be 1. it is not 250 miles above the earth 2. it is not traveling at 17,500 miles an hour 3. It is not lit up by the sun but is lit up bu lights on this craft.

And how did you determine those 3 things?
Who did you collaborate with to do triangulation to get its distance?
The same goes for calculating its velocity as you would need at least 2 other points of reference from the earth's surface to triangulate its position in real time.
What method do you use to determine that light from the ISS is not reflected sunlight?

 

[d taylor]

-​

A person does not choose their beliefs. Beliefs come about by examining the evidence presented by a person, an origination, group, etc... so after examining the evidence, if they are persuaded by the evidence to be true. then they will believe if they are not persuaded by the evidence then they will not believe.

A person can not believe something is true and then choose not to believe it. They may after some time be persuaded by other point of views. That the evidence is not true and stop believing in what they once believed in.

 

[Leaf473]

-​

A person does not choose their beliefs. Beliefs come about by examining the evidence presented by a person, an origination, group, etc... so after examining the evidence, if they are persuaded by the evidence to be true. then they will believe if they are not persuaded by the evidence then they will not believe.

A person can not believe something is true and then choose not to believe it. They may after some time be persuaded by other point of views. That the evidence is not true and stop believing in what they once believed in.

I hear what you're saying. I think a person can choose to value some sources of information over others, and that way effectively end up choosing what they believe.

Peace be with you, my man!

 

[Astrid]

Of course people choose what they believe and disbelieve in. And they have the right to believe and disbelieve.

It's ironic that those who preach so much about diversity, mock those who have beliefs diverse from their own. Who say people can identify with this and that and there's nothing wrong with it. But if they identify as a flat-eather, they're in idiot, they're insane etc. All that precious tolerance goes right out the window.

Of course some- many if not most- are into self deception.
There are psychological reasons, and it's super easy.
Often, no effort at all is needed.

What does take an effort is learning to practice
some self control, self discipline.

Self deception is bad practice.

I was taught very early that self indulgence-
letting feelings run my life, not thought.
Self deception is one of many sunsets of indulgence.


If you and your pals actually choose something,
any old thing, and fool yourself into believing it,
so much the worse for you, so much less credible
are any "truths" that you choose, and believe with
no analysis, believe regardless of any proof that
it's false.

Worse, it's a Virtue! Faith, no matter what.


If this is how you wish to live, go for it.
The effects won't reach the shores of Singapore.


You can even think that everyone is similarly
benighted and go about picking out things
to believe. It's not true, but you can trick yourself into
believing it.

 

[Astrid]

I hear what you're saying. I think a person can choose to value some sources of information over others, and that way effectively end up choosing what they believe.

Peace be with you, my man!

That's a lot different than choosing a god to
believe in, or that Australia is a myth.

JUST FOR ONE THING, the belief you speak of
comes from observation.

For another all but the most insensible have some
OBJECTIVE reason for preferring one info source
over another.

 

[Leaf473]

That's a lot different than choosing a god to
believe in, or that Australia is a myth.

JUST FOR ONE THING, the belief you speak of
comes from observation.

For another all but the most insensible have some
OBJECTIVE reason for preferring one info source
over another.

Estrid, good morning! I think it's morning where you are.

I plan to write more soon, but I just wanted to say good morning

 

[d taylor]

I hear what you're saying. I think a person can choose to value some sources of information over others, and that way effectively end up choosing what they believe.

Peace be with you, my man!

-
​

Well it is the wording, would value be the correct word to use in speaking of beliefs. I value a painting i have done, but it seems like beliefs are based of truth. Does the person believe what they are (reading, listening to, etc..) taking into consideration as being truthful.

Now that does not mean is what a person is believing actually true, but that they perceive it to be true.

 

[d taylor]

And how did you determine those 3 things?
Who did you collaborate with to do triangulation to get its distance?
The same goes for calculating its velocity as you would need at least 2 other points of reference from the earth's surface to triangulate its position in real time.
What method do you use to determine that light from the ISS is not reflected sunlight?

We have discussed this before no need to do it again. It may have actually been on this thread.

 

[Leaf473]

That's a lot different than choosing a god to
believe in, or that Australia is a myth.

JUST FOR ONE THING, the belief you speak of
comes from observation.

For another all but the most insensible have some
OBJECTIVE reason for preferring one info source
over another.

Well, I see things differently. But at this point, I think we're talking more about philosophy than the thread topic.

If you'd like to adjourn to a different thread, please let me know

 

[Leaf473]

-
​

Well it is the wording, would value be the correct word to use in speaking of beliefs. I value a painting i have done, but it seems like beliefs are based of truth. Does the person believe what they are (reading, listening to, etc..) taking into consideration as being truthful.

Now that does not mean is what a person is believing actually true, but that they perceive it to be true.

I was thinking things like how much a person values intuition or some other interior sensation. But I hear what you're saying

 

[The Liturgist]

We have discussed this before no need to do it again. It may have actually been on this thread.

Forgive me, but no we haven’t. At least not in any thread I participated in. Perhaps you could provide a URL to where you discussed it?

And also, that is just one of the two tests I proposed.

By the way, there is nothing in Scripture that supports the idea that the world is actually flat. Every sentence in Scripture that appears to do so can also be read in a manner that supports a round Earth. Nor does Scripture anywhere even remotely suggest it is sinful not to believe in a flat Earth, or that belief in a Flat Earth is required for salvation.

But more importantly for the purposes of this thread, even if the Earth was flat, that would not preclude space travel, since the ISS could easily orbit around a flat Earth.