Did humans descend from Apes?

[AnotherAtheist]

I was trying to show you that the only evidence is found in the Bible, which you seem to discount. What the best and only evidence shows is that your interpretation of Genesis is totally false. My interpretation agrees Scripturally scientifically and historically, thus refuting your truth as nothing but a half truth.

I am not in any way concerned about interpretations of Genesis unless there is some evidence that the major claims made by The Bible, e.g. that there is a God, are true. Without any God, then The Bible is just a collection of stone-age myths with no reason to take them as an authority over modern science.

 

[Speedwell]

I am not in any way concerned about interpretations of Genesis unless there is some evidence that the major claims made by The Bible, e.g. that there is a God, are true. Without any God, then The Bible is just a collection of stone-age myths with no reason to take them as an authority over modern science.

And even if there was a God and He in some manner wrote or otherwise exercised supervision over the composition of the Bible, there is no a priori reason to suppose that the Book of Genesis was meant to be an accurate factual account of our origins with which scientific discoveries need be reconciled.

 

[joshua 1 9]

We know that science exists.

The Bible exists also, just like the science book exists. The Bible has the answer for every question & the solution for every problem. Science can not make that promise. This is the difference between finite and infinite. God is infinite, He has no beginning and He has no end. He is the alpha and the omega he knows the end from the beginning. God does not change, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Hebrews 11:8 "10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11 No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more.”…"

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Bible is just a collection of stone-age myths with no reason to take them as an authority over modern science.

The challenge is to use science to understand those "myths" and how they apply to us today. God does not change so his message does not change over time. I received more of a classic high school education so we got more training in understanding Greek mythology and how to apply it to our lives. People like Fraud and Jung use a lot of mythology to explain things in science today. So if you think ancient myths have no modern application then you are wrong and looking for excuses. Human nature is a lot more consistent then you seem to realize. Jonathan Cahn's best selling book: "Paradigm" is a very good book to learn how to apply ancient stores to modern applications and events.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And even if there was a God and He in some manner wrote or otherwise exercised supervision over the composition of the Bible, there is no a priori reason to suppose that the Book of Genesis was meant to be an accurate factual account of our origins with which scientific discoveries need be reconciled.

All of science comes from the Bible even the first 32 verses in the Bible. The Bible is infinite there is no beginning and there is no end. We can spend our whole life to study and learn and in the end we would only be starting to understand. Science is finite and there is a limit to how much you can learn. Every book in the world would not be enough to teach, explain and understand the Bible. Or in some cases even just one word in the Hebrew Bible. The Bible is infinite so learning and understanding the Bible can go on forever.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

The Bible exists also, just like the science book exists.

Yes. The Bible exists.

The Bible has the answer for every question & the solution for every problem.

There's not much point in being concerned with The Bible unless God exists and The Bible is actually the word of God. (Even then we'd have to be interpreting it properly.)

Science can not make that promise.

It's not making promises that is important, it's whether those promises are fulfilled. Science has proved very effective in understanding the world. The Bible gives a complete explanation for the world. However, that explanation is wrong. Hence, the grand promises of answers are useless.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

The challenge is to use science to understand those "myths" and how they apply to us today.

No, we use science to understand the world/universe. Looking at creation stories etc. is the preserve of religious studies, Bible scholarship etc. Those are entirely different fields of scholarship.

 

[Aman777]

I am not in any way concerned about interpretations of Genesis unless there is some evidence that the major claims made by The Bible, e.g. that there is a God, are true. Without any God, then The Bible is just a collection of stone-age myths with no reason to take them as an authority over modern science.

God reveals Himself in Genesis chapter 1 in many ways. He shows the creation of a Multiverse in Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4. He tells us, thousands of years before Science, that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from water. Gen 1:21 Modern science confirmed this Fact recently.
Meet Luca, the Ancestor of All Living Things - The New York Times
Meet Luca, the Ancestor of All Living Things
Jul 25, 2016

Can you explain how anyone but God could have correctly told us these recently discovered scientific facts, more than 3k years ago? I doubt it, but go ahead and try and I'll show you more recently discovered scientific facts in Genesis. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

And even if there was a God and He in some manner wrote or otherwise exercised supervision over the composition of the Bible, there is no a priori reason to suppose that the Book of Genesis was meant to be an accurate factual account of our origins with which scientific discoveries need be reconciled.

False, since God has promised to reveal His Truth to ALL FLESH in the last days. He's doing it by confirming what He told us in Genesis, scientifically and historically. God wrote His Truth so that ONLY the Christians of the last days, with the increased scientific knowledge available today, could possibly understand. Daniel 12:4

 

[AnotherAtheist]

God reveals Himself in Genesis chapter 1 in many ways. He shows the creation of a Multiverse in Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4. He tells us, thousands of years before Science, that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from water. Gen 1:21 Modern science confirmed this Fact recently.
Meet Luca, the Ancestor of All Living Things - The New York Times
Meet Luca, the Ancestor of All Living Things
Jul 25, 2016

Can you explain how anyone but God could have correctly told us these recently discovered scientific facts, more than 3k years ago? I doubt it, but go ahead and try and I'll show you more recently discovered scientific facts in Genesis. Amen?

The Genesis chapter makes many claims about God, but that is of no consequence unless there is reason to believe that the claims are accurate and God actually exists.

The Bible description does not in any useful way confirm to modern theories of the origin of life, or evidence about how it may have occurred. Saying that life came 'from water' matches is in no way specific enough to be in any way notable.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No, we use science to understand the world/universe. Looking at creation stories etc. is the preserve of religious studies, Bible scholarship etc. Those are entirely different fields of scholarship.

Our interpretation of the Bible has to line up with science. We know that Noah's flood was what we would call a "local" flood because that is what we learn from science. IF we did not have science, if all we had was the Bible then our interpretation would be totality different from what it is using science as a guide in our understanding of the Bible.

 

[joshua 1 9]

There's not much point in being concerned with The Bible unless God exists and The Bible is actually the word of God. (Even then we'd have to be interpreting it properly.)

The Bible has been proven to be true for every generation sense the time of Moses. There is nothing you can do to show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true when properly understood the truth will away be true and this does not ever change.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Bible description does not in any useful way confirm to modern theories of the origin of life, or evidence about how it may have occurred. Saying that life came 'from water' matches is in no way specific enough to be in any way notable.

Of course the Bible does not confirm science, science confirms and explains the Bible. Science is far to often man made so we do not expect man to confirm God.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Of course the Bible does not confirm science, science confirms and explains the Bible. Science is far to often man made so we do not expect man to confirm God.

No. Science contradicts The Bible. E.g. The Bible claims that the diversity of modern life was created within days. While science shows that this didn't happen like that all.

The Bible has been proven to be true for every generation sense the time of Moses. There is nothing you can do to show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true when properly understood the truth will away be true and this does not ever change.

The Bible is littered with scientific and historical errors, as well as contradictions. So, it is not 100% accurate. By 'properly understood', I guess you mean that the Bible is interpreted to say something quite different from what the text says, and/or reality is re-interpreted to match The Bible even though it doesn't.

Our interpretation of the Bible has to line up with science. We know that Noah's flood was what we would call a "local" flood because that is what we learn from science. IF we did not have science, if all we had was the Bible then our interpretation would be totality different from what it is using science as a guide in our understanding of the Bible.

No, our interpretation of The Bible does not have to line up with science. We can simply make the obvious conclusion that The Bible is incorrect, as it was written thousands of years ago by people who weren't guided by a God, but wrote the texts that became The Bible out of their limited and often incorrect understanding of the world.

Noah's flood is described as being a global flood. Was the Flood of Noah Global or Local in Extent? We know that no such global flood did or could have occurred. Therefore, The Bible is wrong.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No. Science contradicts The Bible.

Not at all. Although I am sure that YOUR understanding is a contradiction. You may even be able to write A book telling us what YOU understand about the Bible. We could write hundreds of thousands of books about the Bible and we would just be getting started. So an atheist has one drop of understanding, barely anything of any substance. But we could fill the ocean with our understanding.

Habakkuk 2-14
"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Bible is littered with scientific and historical errors, as well as contradictions.

Not at all, none, zip, zero. But I would be glad to have a conversation with you about the Skeptics Bible. Because every single objection he brings up in his book is a product of a reprobate mind that does not have a true understanding of the Bible. This is the thinking that people have that are dead in sin and not alive onto God in the spirit. This is why people talk about being born again and a new creation in Christ. Man apart from God has a body and a soul (personality) just like the animals. Adam and Eve had the breath of life and they were spiritually alive. Every atheist says they are going to die and every christian says they are going to live forever. Peter in the Bible agrees with this when he says: "like animals they too will perish". So their own testimony will be proven to be true. For me I want to live and devote my life to what is eternal and will live forever.

What do you have to show for your life? What is the reason or purpose for living life if in the end it is all going to end and come to nothing? For me that is not acceptable at all. My treasure is in Heaven and the word I do will survive forever. Even forever and a day.

 

[joshua 1 9]

We know that no such global flood did or could have occurred. Therefore, The Bible is wrong.

That understanding or interpretation of the Bible is wrong. That does not mean the Bible is wrong. We are told: Romans 3:4 "let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED." The day will come when you will be judged. Based on what you are saying things are not going to go very well for you on that day. You will be in for a rude awakening. I am just getting you ready for that day by pointing out the errors in your thinking and you lack of true UNDERSTANDING of the Bible, the Word of God.

So we an go back and forth all day long and every point you try to make I am going to present a counterpoint to show that you are wrong and in error with your thinking.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

That understanding or interpretation of the Bible is wrong. That does not mean the Bible is wrong. We are told: Romans 3:4 "let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED." The day will come when you will be judged. Based on what you are saying things are not going to go very well for you on that day. You will be in for a rude awakening. I am just getting you ready for that day by pointing out the errors in your thinking and you lack of true UNDERSTANDING of the Bible, the Word of God.

So we an go back and forth all day long and every point you try to make I am going to present a counterpoint to show that you are wrong and in error with your thinking.

What you are doing is using your own personal interpretation of The Bible as your evidence for your argument. Sadly, if you wish to be able to claim things, then you need evidence that you haven't just made up yourself; which is what an interpretation is.

There are plenty of examples of The Bible being wrong in various ways, and inconsistent. Hence, you cannot use The Bible as your evidence, as we know that it is unreliable. When it's not just 'The Bible', but your own interpretation of that Bible that you use as evidence, that works even worse as evidence to support your claims.

You say 'that interpretation of The Bible is wrong'. On what do you base that claim? There is plenty of evidence that The Bible's description of the flood is as a global flood. E.g. that the tops of all the mountains were covered: https://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c005.html

 

[Aman777]

The Genesis chapter makes many claims about God, but that is of no consequence unless there is reason to believe that the claims are accurate and God actually exists.

The Bible description does not in any useful way confirm to modern theories of the origin of life, or evidence about how it may have occurred. Saying that life came 'from water' matches is in no way specific enough to be in any way notable.

For a goat herder who lived thousands of years before Science? How bout the fact that God tells us we live in a Multiverse? with at least 3 Heavens? Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4 One of which has been totally destroyed in the flood? 2Pet3:6 One of which is where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us, Jhn 14:2 in the Third Heaven of ll Cor 12:2? With your enlightenment, please tell us IF today's Cosmos is the 2nd Heaven, destined for burning? 2Pet3:10 Of course it is. Your knowledge seems limited to just 1 world? Your future is in jeopardy.

 

[Aman777]

Noah's flood is described as being a global flood. Was the Flood of Noah Global or Local in Extent? We know that no such global flood did or could have occurred. Therefore, The Bible is wrong.

False, since on the 150th day after the flood began, Adam's world sank in Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4 This totally destroyed Adam's entire firmament/heaven/universe AND it released the 450 ft long Ark into the Lake. The Bible is God's Holy Word, Authored by the Spirit of Truth, which means that you have the wrong interpretation. No wonder you're an atheist.