Did God send this virus into the world

[Davidz777]

No God did not just send the virus because viral respiratory diseases have been with humans from before recorded history not only for us but also other mammal species. And like all DNA species, viruses evolve over time as is well documented in science. For instance consider that influenza mutates and thus we need new vaccines periodically. The healthy human biome contains billions of bacteria and orders of magnitude more billions of viruses that are more like non-living DNA machines that have evolved to parasitically reproduce on living DNA organic lifeforms by entering into cells in order to hijack cellular mechanisms. Note viruses are also parasites of lowest lifeforms like bacteria. Thus it is logical virus diseases have evolved to exist.

Note I am not one in the dominant omniscience, omnipotent, omnipresence camp, that I view as impossible nonsense of philosophers, and rather lean towards in a Christian god with limitations. Likewise not in the inerrant or infallible Bible camps either. In any case am open minded without certainties or strong beliefs.

So why might God allow human diseases to develop without removing them? Because over long periods of generations, it serves purpose of tending to improve the human species health and eliminating the genetically unfit while favoring the healthy and fit. Consider how God decreed to Israelites to sacrifice only healthy animals that says much to what he thinks about flawed creatures as species (not individuals) moving forward that would include us. Additionally it automatically limits Earth human populations that obviously can damage the health of his amazing planet, especially all its life. Too many people too densely together makes viral diseases too contagious in a globally connected world. Due to the vast corporate and political powers of Western capitalism there is otherwise an unstoppable drive in this modern age for insane endless growth, development, and human population increases despite all the obvious damage it is doing.

How conveniently all that has now changed. One might predict if a coronavirus vaccine is not readily forthcoming that a lot of people are no longer going to choose to live in densely populated cities where they are too exposed to contagious others. Also our current corporate just-in-time global supply chain economy has crashed with a demolishing thud. And with it forever forward its trust with the world's people. In the future each nation will have its own health supplies, machines, know how to protect its own citizens from disease. Also each nation will have at least token food supplies to feed itself without fully needing to depend on other nations. I also expect those that for economic reasons have been resisting global warming will soon be reigned in as well as other forces damaging the planet's life like over fishing. And finally we already have far far too many humans on the planet to live in an an optimal sustainable balance.

 

[renniks]

How do we answer unbelievers who ask Christians, why our loving God would (allow or send) this microscopic enemy to reek such devastating havoc on the world.

There's a lot of disagreement among professing Christians on, whether God sent this virus or whether it was manufactured in a lab and sent out to be used as a weapon of war. Or whether it's neither of those and it's just a random quirk of nature.

I'm not claiming to know the exact origin, but I do believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation. And nothing happens apart from His predetermined will.

So even if it was created by someone will evil intentions, God still uses evil to accomplish His good purpose. I found this very hard to accept, until I realized that I was trying to conform God to my own image.

I can't think of the Bible passages right now, which say that God has only revealed a very limited amount about Himself to us at this time. But He will reveal a lot more in eternity so as hard as it is, we just have to keep trusting in Him.

Disease came into this world because of man's sin. That much we know. I would not want to attribute to God what seems to be Satan's territory.
You might as well ask why any bad thing happens. Why sickness and death exist at all. It's not God's doing, biblically, but he does use these things for good for those that love him.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How do we answer unbelievers who ask Christians, why our loving God would (allow or send) this microscopic enemy to reek such devastating havoc on the world.

There's a lot of disagreement among professing Christians on, whether God sent this virus or whether it was manufactured in a lab and sent out to be used as a weapon of war. Or whether it's neither of those and it's just a random quirk of nature.

I'm not claiming to know the exact origin, but I do believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation. And nothing happens apart from His predetermined will.

So even if it was created by someone will evil intentions, God still uses evil to accomplish His good purpose. I found this very hard to accept, until I realized that I was trying to conform God to my own image.

I can't think of the Bible passages right now, which say that God has only revealed a very limited amount about Himself to us at this time. But He will reveal a lot more in eternity so as hard as it is, we just have to keep trusting in Him.

This would then imply that Diseases exist in heaven. So no, God did not send it.

If it came from our own sins, why blame God? I mean Jesus did die on the cross and take them upon Himself, but do we need to continue crucifying Him everytime something bad happens?

The most valid verse here is because Adam sinned the whole creation was subjected. Blame Adam if you need to, but learn the lesson of the garden and the cross, and don't blame at all.

 

[ZNP]

This would then imply that Diseases exist in heaven. So no, God did not send it.

If it came from our own sins, why blame God? I mean Jesus did die on the cross and take them upon Himself, but do we need to continue crucifying Him everytime something bad happens?

The most valid verse here is because Adam sinned the whole creation was subjected. Blame Adam if you need to, but learn the lesson of the garden and the cross, and don't blame at all.

oh, how about the plagues that hit Egypt, did they exist in heaven?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

oh, how about the plagues that hit Egypt, did they exist in heaven?

All the elements of the plagues of Egypt, except for the last one were elements of creation amplified to cause harm, so it was terestrial not celestial.

The angel of death did come from heaven. However, since the old testament period ended with the death of the testator Jesus Christ, (Hebrews 9:16) God has been using mercy to encourage repentance (Romans 2)

So to say God is punishing people like He did in the Old Testament, is like saying Jesus died on the cross in vain. The age of the law and the prophets is over, now is the time of the kingdom of God. (Luke 16:16)

 

[Scott Husted]

How do we answer unbelievers who ask Christians, why our loving God would (allow or send) this microscopic enemy to reek such devastating havoc on the world.

There's a lot of disagreement among professing Christians on, whether God sent this virus or whether it was manufactured in a lab and sent out to be used as a weapon of war. Or whether it's neither of those and it's just a random quirk of nature.

I'm not claiming to know the exact origin, but I do believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation. And nothing happens apart from His predetermined will.

So even if it was created by someone will evil intentions, God still uses evil to accomplish His good purpose. I found this very hard to accept, until I realized that I was trying to conform God to my own image.

I can't think of the Bible passages right now, which say that God has only revealed a very limited amount about Himself to us at this time. But He will reveal a lot more in eternity so as hard as it is, we just have to keep trusting in Him.

God started it all knowing all the things that would transpire because of the act. To me there's great comfort in that.

 

[mindlight]

No God did not just send the virus because viral respiratory diseases have been with humans from before recorded history not only for us but also other mammal species.

We will disagree and you cannot prove timescales. Since a virus feeds off life and destroys it did not exist before life. It is activated by life not by itself.

And like all DNA species, viruses evolve over time as is well documented in science.

A virus is not a species or indeed a speciation of a type of creature. To speak of its mutation over time is not to draw a parallel with an actual lifeform.

For instance consider that influenza mutates and thus we need new vaccines periodically. The healthy human biome contains billions of bacteria and orders of magnitude more billions of viruses that are more like non-living DNA machines that have evolved to parasitically reproduce on living DNA organic lifeforms by entering into cells in order to hijack cellular mechanisms. Note viruses are also parasites of lowest lifeforms like bacteria. Thus it is logical virus diseases have evolved to exist.

There are a lot of them and they change. It is worrying that coronavirus may mutate like flu.

Note I am not one in the dominant omniscience, omnipotent, omnipresence camp, that I view as impossible nonsense of philosophers, and rather lean towards in a Christian god with limitations. Likewise not in the inerrant or infallible Bible camps either. In any case am open minded without certainties or strong beliefs.

Agreed that much is clear

So why might God allow human diseases to develop without removing them? Because over long periods of generations, it serves purpose of tending to improve the human species health and eliminating the genetically unfit while favoring the healthy and fit. Consider how God decreed to Israelites to sacrifice only healthy animals that says much to what he thinks about flawed creatures as species (not individuals) moving forward that would include us. Additionally it automatically limits Earth human populations that obviously can damage the health of his amazing planet, especially all its life.

Or God created creatures to be a certain way but some are so broken in this broken ecosystem that is kinder for God to call them home than to allow them to perpetuate the suffering implicit in their genes to future generations. That vulnerability to viruses implies a failure or brokeness of natural mechanisms God originally installed in us.

Too many people too densely together makes viral diseases too contagious in a globally connected world. Due to the vast corporate and political powers of Western capitalism there is otherwise an unstoppable drive in this modern age for insane endless growth, development, and human population increases despite all the obvious damage it is doing.

How conveniently all that has now changed. One might predict if a coronavirus vaccine is not readily forthcoming that a lot of people are no longer going to choose to live in densely populated cities where they are too exposed to contagious others. Also our current corporate just-in-time global supply chain economy has crashed with a demolishing thud. And with it forever forward its trust with the world's people. In the future each nation will have its own health supplies, machines, know how to protect its own citizens from disease. Also each nation will have at least token food supplies to feed itself without fully needing to depend on other nations. I also expect those that for economic reasons have been resisting global warming will soon be reigned in as well as other forces damaging the planet's life like over fishing. And finally we already have far far too many humans on the planet to live in an an optimal sustainable balance.

Yes global supply chains will be shortened and made local where possible. Just in time processing is not catastrophe proof. In the long run this is not the end of cities and urbanisationnor growth. But the growth might now be greener and more health conscious by necessity rather than choice

 

[ZNP]

So to say God is punishing people like He did in the Old Testament, is like saying Jesus died on the cross in vain. The age of the law and the prophets is over, now is the time of the kingdom of God. (Luke 16:16)

I have not used the word punishing. I am simply saying that as Lord of all this pandemic is under the Lord's authority. God used the plagues in Egypt so that Pharaoh would let His people go. In the same way I see that God is using this pandemic to further His kingdom.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have not used the word punishing. I am simply saying that as Lord of all this pandemic is under the Lord's authority. God used the plagues in Egypt so that Pharaoh would let His people go. In the same way I see that God is using this pandemic to further His kingdom.

That kind of makes God sound selfish. but there is a way to phrase it that is in the scriptures.

 

[ZNP]

That kind of makes God sound selfish. but there is a way to phrase it that is in the scriptures.

How many people have prayed that the Lord would intervene over unrighteousness, over the kind of abuse of power we saw with the Catholic priests, or with the cigarette companies, or Dupont's teflon, or the CTE scandal, or dictators, or the assassinations of MLK Jr., etc. The Lord said "before you can plunder the strong man's house you need to bind the strong man".

In the same way the Hebrews prayed over the abuses they were suffering at the hands of the Egyptians and as an answer to that prayer God intervened.

The passover says that the angel of death can pass over our house because we already have been visited and the blood of a lamb is on our door.

How is God answering these prayers selfish?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How many people have prayed that the Lord would intervene over unrighteousness, over the kind of abuse of power we saw with the Catholic priests, or with the cigarette companies, or Dupont's teflon, or the CTE scandal, or dictators, or the assassinations of MLK Jr., etc. The Lord said "before you can plunder the strong man's house you need to bind the strong man".

In the same way the Hebrews prayed over the abuses they were suffering at the hands of the Egyptians and as an answer to that prayer God intervened.

The passover says that the angel of death can pass over our house because we already have been visited and the blood of a lamb is on our door.

How is God answering these prayers selfish?

I can see how God could be using this, if He is indeed intervening. However, since there are a number of other supernatural factors involved, it is possible something evil was completely disrupted causing global imbalance - including this virus.

I'm just saying, I have not heard specifically from God that He has caused this one.

 

[SkyWriting]

A lot of Christians don't realize that God will send plagues to judge this evil world:

Prophesy is like warm jello water. Even after it sets, you can't nail it down well.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

The Bible has already revealed God to us in many different ways if we are willing to put down our own perception of how God SHOULD be like.

And yes, God can send pestilence for his purpose, as he had:

If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:13-14 NASB)

“Go and speak to David, ‘Thus the Lord says, “I am offering you three things; choose for yourself one of them, which I will do to you.”’” So Gad came to David and told him, and said to him, “Shall seven years of famine come to you in your land? Or will you flee three months before your foes while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days’ pestilence in your land? (2 Samuel 24:12-13 NASB)​

 

[Blade]

No its not of God. Yes there were plagues in the OT. You do understand there was no law then right? Then not all plagues touched Israel. And the word talks about Christ on the cross. If were running with only the OT then .. I am all safe "There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling." Deu 28.. I know the promises are mine and I know the other stuff curses and such can never touch me.

God didn't nor can create something that kills. So does it kill steal and destroy? Then its not of God. And no I do not believe God in any way allowed it. There are verses in the word about some standing before God and one is with Satan and Joshua. There is a court in Heaven. Peter was freed from jail why? God felt like it? No.. they were praying for him. WHY do you think we pray?

God was about to judge Israel.. He looked for just one form among them to stand in the gap so He would not have to.. yet He found none. Job.. do we forget all of what Satan said to God about Job? How in the world could Satan know any of that? Hes not all knowing and can only be in one place at one time. Seems to me he was trying to do something and could not. So made his case before God. As he is always trying to do against us. Peter again in the news lol.. Christ told Peter Satan wants to swift you as wheat but I PRAYED for you.

"And the LORD said, Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know.” I like the "outcry against". Someone was making a case before God about those cities. Again WHY do you think we pray. We don't know the Father..

Why not look at the flu? As if God for how many years now ..doing what? Oct 2019- Mar 2020 they say 24,000 to 63,000 have died. God has nothing what so ever to do with that. That FLU is a virus.. this one now..is a virus. For me There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

and rather lean towards in a Christian god with limitations.

That's not the Christian God.

And like all DNA species, viruses evolve over time as is well documented in science.

The virus or parasite that kills its host is self-destructive. This particular disease is not favored by your evolution. To merely state that things change is a statement of the obvious, but to state that complex things design and build themselves from scratch is a statement of the absurd.

That much we know. I would not want to attribute to God what seems to be Satan's territory.

Viruses have intelligent design, which suggests an intelligent designer. I would not want to attribute to Satan what seems to be God's territory.

Prophesy is like warm jello water. Even after it sets, you can't nail it down well.

Vague philosophical aphorisms are like shaking hands with an empty glove.

 

[renniks]

Viruses have intelligent design, which suggests an intelligent designer. I would not want to attribute to Satan what seems to be God's territory.

God created, Satan corrupted the creation which now groans for a return to perfection, meanwhile, viruses and illness are a result of living in a broken world.

 

[charsan]

No God did not just send the virus

Exactly. Satan took advantage of it along with evil man to strip us of our rights, to keep us from the Sacraments

 

[FutureAndAHope]

How do we answer unbelievers who ask Christians, why our loving God would (allow or send) this microscopic enemy to reek such devastating havoc on the world.

There's a lot of disagreement among professing Christians on, whether God sent this virus or whether it was manufactured in a lab and sent out to be used as a weapon of war. Or whether it's neither of those and it's just a random quirk of nature.

I'm not claiming to know the exact origin, but I do believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation. And nothing happens apart from His predetermined will.

So even if it was created by someone will evil intentions, God still uses evil to accomplish His good purpose. I found this very hard to accept, until I realized that I was trying to conform God to my own image.

I can't think of the Bible passages right now, which say that God has only revealed a very limited amount about Himself to us at this time. But He will reveal a lot more in eternity so as hard as it is, we just have to keep trusting in Him.

I believe regardless of the origin of this virus, that God is using it as a judgment. I will explain why I think this.

When the virus first came, I did not think that it was God’s judgment, so I prayed against it, hoping that it would be turned back. When it did not abate, I though back to a vision that I had received before the virus came into my country of Australia. In the vision I heard an angry voice state “invade them”, I thought invade them meant a physical invasion, the voice suggested that them referred to those who sinned, with a specific focus on the sin of pandering to homosexuality.

I then heard a famous preacher in the USA Perry Stone, had received a word from the LORD that the virus was God’s day of reckoning for the sin’s of homosexuality, and abortion.

I then sought the LORD to see if this was the case, that the vision, and Perry’s message was from God.

Every time I asked the response was “Yes it was Him”. There are a few methods I used here, when I used to write sermons I would often ask God to show me a tick in my mind to represent Yes, or a cross to represent no, was the sermon ok to give. This method suggested it was a judgment when I asked. I also got on my knees, and sought God to speak to me, I told Him I am your blood bought son, tell me. The answer was it was Him. I kept seeking, and asked again and again, He said “I will show you”, but I heard nothing, then in a vision I saw the word “yes”, meaning yes it was Him.

But some people on this forum claimed that God had shown them that this was not true, that it was not a judgement. But every time I asked God, I got the same answer that it was His judgment.

But in frustration I tried to ask Him, “did the virus have a natural origin”, “did God send it”, or “did the devil send it”. I used a lot based method, where I would pick three scriptures in my mind from the bible, to represent each of the choices, I would then open the bible randomly, if it opened to the choices in my mind, I would take it to be God’s word to me. When I used this method, after a day and half of seeking, it opened up to the scripture I had chosen to represent “it had a natural origin”. But there was something, I could sense, clouding the choice with darkness.

I then came on the forum and apologized that I may have got it wrong about it being a judgment. But it did not sit easy with me, for all the past things had suggested it was judgment. And I did not want to come against a minister like Perry Stone, and I had sensed darkness around the choice.


So I started to pray again, but I expanded the choices. To “did God send it”, “was it 100% natural, no spirituality involved”, “did the devil seek the Judgment, and God allowed it as a judgment against sin”, “or was it 100% the devils doing”

Using the same lot based method, with prayer over a day or so, it came up not once but twice to the choice “did the devil seek the Judgment, and God allowed it as judgment against sin”.

So I believe even if the virus had a “natural origin”, the devil’s nagging, gave way to God unleashing the virus.

But at any time Him mercy may come upon us, as happened to David.

1Ch 21:15 Then he sent an angel to destroy the city of Jerusalem. But just as the angel was about to do that, the LORD felt sorry for all the suffering he had caused the people, and he told the angel, "Stop! They have suffered enough." This happened at the threshing place that belonged to Araunah the Jebusite.

 

[Dan1988]

Really? Have you tried this? How many of your friends and relatives jumped on board and made a profession of faith by your telling them how much God loves them?

My Bible tells me that God casts unrepentant sinners into hell, it also tells me that God hates certain people. So I would be a liar if I told them that God loves them, because I don't know who God loves and who He hates. That's his private business.
Jesus never taught us to go out into the whole world and preach, God's unconditional love for everyone. He told us to preach the Gospel which includes, sever punishment in an eternal hell for those who reject it.
The Gospel tells us that we are all desperately wicked before our conversion, and we know that God hates wickedness and sin so much that He punishes it with the harshest possible punishment.

 

[Dan1988]

Especially the ones in the churches. And why did they get like that? Did we intercede enough for them? If the world see we don't intercede enough for each other what does that tell them about what we are saying?

Why wouldn't "God allow" a freeze in winter (if we have a concept God). Scientists have arrived at many hypotheses about viruses. Fascinatingly they are crystalline, like clay.

Why wouldn't God warn the church before He warns outsiders? Didn't Jesus intend many parables for christians? Do we read or think about them?

That's a very sobering reminder, for all of us. Most of us don't dedicate enough time to intercessory prayer.
I heard some statistics about the amount of time dedicated to prayer on a daily basis, they say that Church members pray for less than 5 mins a day and ministers elders pray around 7 mins a day. Yet the same people can find a lot of time for golf or fishing and other hobbies.