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Did God send this virus into the world

Discussion in 'The Junk Drawer' started by Dan1988, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. Dan1988

    Dan1988 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do we answer unbelievers who ask Christians, why our loving God would (allow or send) this microscopic enemy to reek such devastating havoc on the world.

    There's a lot of disagreement among professing Christians on, whether God sent this virus or whether it was manufactured in a lab and sent out to be used as a weapon of war. Or whether it's neither of those and it's just a random quirk of nature.

    I'm not claiming to know the exact origin, but I do believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation. And nothing happens apart from His predetermined will.

    So even if it was created by someone will evil intentions, God still uses evil to accomplish His good purpose. I found this very hard to accept, until I realized that I was trying to conform God to my own image.

    I can't think of the Bible passages right now, which say that God has only revealed a very limited amount about Himself to us at this time. But He will reveal a lot more in eternity so as hard as it is, we just have to keep trusting in Him.
     
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  2. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Don't think God sent the CV.

    Compared to what little man
    thinks to be fair
    and what God states in the Bible
    are at times two different things.

    But, believers do not question God.

    M-Bob
     
  3. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    A lot of Christians don't realize that God will send plagues to judge this evil world:

    Revelation 11:3-6
    And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”a]">[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.


    .
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ““Say to them: ‘This is what the Lord GOD says: As surely as I live, those who are among the city ruins in Israel will be killed in war. I will cause those who live in the country to be eaten by wild animals. People hiding in the strongholds and caves will die of disease.” Ezekiel 33:27 (NCV)


    ““I held back the rain from you three months before harvest time. Then I let it rain on one city but not on another. Rain fell on one field, but another field got none and dried up. People weak from thirst went from town to town for water, but they could not get enough to drink. Still you did not come back to me,” says the LORD. “I made your crops die from disease and mildew. When your gardens and your vineyards got larger, locusts ate your fig and olive trees. But still you did not come back to me,” says the LORD. “I sent disasters against you, as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with swords, and your horses were taken from you. I made you smell the stink from all the dead bodies, but still you did not come back to me,” says the LORD. “I destroyed some of you as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick pulled from a fire, but still you did not come back to me,” says the LORD. “So this is what I will do to you, Israel; because I will do this to you, get ready to meet your God, Israel.”” Amos 4:7–12 (NCV)


    “I looked, and there before me was a pale horse. Its rider was named death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill people by war, by starvation, by disease, and by the wild animals of the earth.” Revelation 6:8 (NCV)

    “I will send a time of hunger and wild animals against you, and they will kill your children. Disease and death will sweep through your people, and I will bring the sword against you to kill you. I, the LORD, have spoken.”” Ezekiel 5:17 (NCV)


    ““This is what the Lord GOD says: My plans for Jerusalem are much worse! I will send my four terrible punishments against it—war, hunger, wild animals, and disease—to destroy its people and animals.” Ezekiel 14:21 (NCV)


    War, famine Pestilence/plague, wild beasts



    upload_2020-4-7_7-41-27.png

    How much of God’s four sore judgments have we seen in our lifetimes? How much are we seeing now? How much more can we expect to see?

    If we study all that plagues the human race, it seems all but accidents fall into one of these four categories. And we know God controls accidents too. The wild beasts seem far removed unless we include the transmission of disease from animals to humans. Like bats and rats spreading plagues. War is unending today. Famine hangs in a fragile balance.

    Not Just for the Jews of old. Revelation universalizes it.

    If we study the Book of Revelation on a spiritual level we see vivid symbols of the judgments. The bearing up under God’s wrath happening all around us. Especially in the flu epidemics now becoming a pandemics. All the seals, trumpets and bowls represent God’s judgment in endless cycles of pain and suffering of the human race culminating in the fiery end of the world.

    Does the Old Testament shape your world view? How do you understand the suffering in the world around you?
     
  5. Going_Nowhere

    Going_Nowhere Active Member

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    Perhaps he allowed it to be unleashed on the world. But there's some purpose or reason behind it. Some good that would come out of it. That would be my guess.
     
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  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    The illness is a direct result of what takes place in a fallen world. God is using this time though. Some will blame Him but many will turn to Him and some backsliders will turn back to Him. I don't believe we are yet into the plagues written in the book of Revelation but it does give a view or foreshadowing of that time to come.
     
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  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How can God allow anything? It's like saying he allows water to freeze in the winter.
     
  8. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians 13:12
    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
     
  9. Dan1988

    Dan1988 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The hardness of fallen man's heart is the hardest thing to try and understand. I've been pleading with my brother and a close childhood friend to repent, but they just seem to harden their hearts even more.

    Just reading the above scriptures, reminded me of how stubborn the natural man is. It seems that no amount of warnings or signs can break their pride and arrogance, and not to mention the love of sin.

    I identify with the apostle Paul, when he described himself as "the chief of sinners". The hardest thing God ever did was to atone for our sins, so creating all things that exist was extremely easy in comparison.

    We can't imagine the suffering and shame of a naked crucifixion for our worst enemies. So that makes those who reject such love, all the more guilty.
     
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  10. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Tell them that they have not seen anything yet! For the Lord will shake the heavens and the Earth. While He loves the world, He hates sin.He judges sin and those who reject His provision for the eradication of their sin.
     
  11. Dan1988

    Dan1988 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If I was to tell my unbelieving friends and relatives, that "God loves you, just as you are" they would all jump on board and make a profession of faith.
    The problem comes, when you mention repentance and turning from their sin. Lets face it, all of know how powerful the love of sin is. Nobody can break it using their own power. It's much easier to say, "I'm not as bad as some others, so God will forgive me".
    I doubt that any amount of shaking will cause a hardened sinner to repent. Christ said, this is impossible with man but all things are possible with God. Thanks be onto Him.
     
  12. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Did not God allow Satan access to Job ?
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He put Satan up to it. So allow is not the right choice of words.
     
  14. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Really? Have you tried this? How many of your friends and relatives jumped on board and made a profession of faith by your telling them how much God loves them?
     
  15. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    Really, this are possibilities Christians around you discuss? All are quite low and not very godly.

    There is nothing random, God controls everything. God also does not need to send virus, virus can be either naturally developed or man made, but again, under God's full control.

    Whatever happens, happens because it must happen. Every evil is there for a higher good.
     
  16. Amittai

    Amittai monitor evaluator

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    Especially the ones in the churches. And why did they get like that? Did we intercede enough for them? If the world see we don't intercede enough for each other what does that tell them about what we are saying?

    Why wouldn't "God allow" a freeze in winter (if we have a concept God). Scientists have arrived at many hypotheses about viruses. Fascinatingly they are crystalline, like clay.

    Why wouldn't God warn the church before He warns outsiders? Didn't Jesus intend many parables for christians? Do we read or think about them?
     
  17. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    God upholds his dietary laws. We flaunt them at our peril.
     
  18. jasonMalloy1999

    jasonMalloy1999 Well-Known Member

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    china did the chinese government walk around fine no masks or anything they are right next to where the outbreak occurred
     
  19. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said you can't plunder the strong man's house until you first bind the strong man. The crash in the stock market, the crash in the oil market, the drop in the bond market all bind the wealthy.

    Huge increase in unemployment, the drop in trade by 30-40% are both going to cause a huge drop in tax revenue of the governments.

    Many dictators are propped up with revenue from the oil trade. Without that revenue we may very likely see these totalitarian regimes fall.

    So, if you have been praying about the unrighteousness of various corporations, governments, dictators, then the answer to that prayer begins with the binding of these strong men.
     
  20. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    A virus is a parasite that feeds off living cells in order to replicate itself and ultimately leaving that cell dead. It brings only harm and death, I cannot think of any positive purpose to something like SARS-COV-2 for instance. So many Christians regard the beginning of viruses as following the creation of life which viruses feed off and probably originating with the fall of humanity. If they did have some kind of positive role before the fall then that was lost following it. But human immune systems were still strong before the Flood and there are no accounts of major plagues before that time and human beings life spans were much longer. It is possible that the human immune system was enhanced by a superior preflood eco system and also preceded that angelic fiddling with human DNA that followed the fall of the angels from heaven and led to the giants that are also mentioned in the post flood world and whose flawed DNA has polluted the human stream with broken botched code.

    Plagues come later and always in the context of judgment. These judgments are usually announced before hand though not necessarily to those who suffer the consequences of them. Davids census for example led to a judgment as plague. Moses announced 10 plagues on Egypt though most Egyptians only realised why they were being judged much later. There have been many denunciations of a failure to care for the weak, the old and the sick of many of those countries worst effected and also of the godlessness or immorality of many of its leaders.

    So what is COVID-19 a judgment for. Must admit that it hard to understand and probably in the broadest terms its meaning is inaccessible. So we should probably stick to what we know about it and the facts of its impact if we want to make a guess.

    It has an unusual host range known to have infected not only humans but bats and tigers and another species. It seems to be a flu like in its initial symptoms but has far higher kill rate 10-50 times higher in fact and may well be more contagious. It appears not to stop killing people in warm weather as it is still doing that around the world regardless of season. It targets older people or people with weakened immune systems in particular though not exclusively.

    In China the victims were mainly godless communists in possibly the least Christian city in China so no problem there defining it as a judgment

    In South Korea it hit a blasphemous cult very hard so again no problem

    In Iran it hit Shia believers focused on Qoms - so judgment on false religion

    But then it hit Europe and it hit a deeply Catholic area of Italy and then Spain and the older generation. These are the ones who go to church while the young do not. These are practicing Christians in the main albeit sitting on a lot of wealth they have not shared. So it would be less a judgment on faith than on what has been done with gifts given perhaps. It spread to other countries also like the USA where Christian devotion is high. If it were a judgment of faith alone then surely it should hit the younger generation of these countries who have often forsaken God.

    The biggest costs for this disease have been felt by:
    1) Italy, Spain, France,UK the low countries and the USA
    2) It is a major challenge to globalisation and to supranational organisations like the EU
    3) The most significant attack on US Military capability was the effective removal of an aircraft carrier tasked with patrolling the China area, so big win for China

    The beneficiaries of this diseases history look like being in the long run:
    1) Doctors and nurses - universally recognised as the heroes of this crisis.
    2) China, which because it has now controlled the virus is uniquely placed to control the post virus world and to get its economy back and running before the USA for instance
    3) Greens like Greta Thunberg who think we are abusing the planet and heading for environmental catastrophe. A catastrophe which if true looks like it has been massively delayed by the reductions in pollution resulting from this crisis

    What the virus says to me is that God is judging the current form of globalisation with its emphasis of individual rights over communal concerns, a form of capitalism that often failed to look out for the weakest members of its communities and to count the cost of what it was doing to the environment,also that he is calling many of his more fragile people home from the places where he is most angry and where the economic consequences of this virus will be most severe like Italy,Spain, France the UK and the USA.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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