Did God predestine the Fall?

[BBAS 64]

Hope that gobbley gook makes sense to you. Tell us now in your own words whether you think ' people are being pre destined to hell?' Yes or no. Simple.

Good day, dad

I gave you a link to the historical Reformed answer to the question.... sorry if you are unable to understand it.

People go to Hell because they are sinners, no action by God is needed at all.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Hammster]

No. Softened is probably the better word.

Why wouldn’t we pray for our loved ones to be saved?

If I pray for them to recover from sickness or that a surgery is successful, why would I not also pray for salvation?

God says He answers prayer and we have not, because we do not ask.

Seems like your trying to say something because we pray for it.

If they can make this free decision, why does their heart even need to be softened?

 

[Hammster]

Regardless if they chose Him?

I’m not sure what you mean hear, and I want to give an accurate response without assumptions.

 

[Hammster]

It is a decision man is asked to make. That is what will change the nature of man. You seem to preach that He changes it of His Own accord, no permission needed.

Not even close. I’ve stated over and over and over (and given scripture) that we are regenerated first, then we believe. It’s the regeneration that gives us our new nature. If we could be pleasing to God without the change, there’d be no need to change it.

 

[Hammster]

To see decisions in the bible look anywhere. Abraham decided to obey God. Noah also. Samson...well, his decisions were somewhat weak. Jonah decided to disobey, and also to obey...Herod decided to kill babies. Pilate decided to wash his hands of Jesus. Judas decided to sell out the Savior. Peter decided to deny Christ. Paul decided that Jesus was the way to go. Adam decided to eat the forbidden fruit. Enoch decided to walk with God.

For or against God, people have decided all through the bible and history. To claim our decisions are artificial, or bypassed, or not something God works with is false.

Nobody has argued against our ability to make choices.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If they can make this free decision, why does their heart even need to be softened?

It doesn’t NEED to be anything. But as Christians, we petition God for what we desire in prayer.

Do you not pray for others?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Nobody has argued against our ability to make choices.

Well yes you have. The Calvinist position is that no one comes to God without the regeneration of the Goly Spirit.

So you have argued against the ability of all mankind to make a decision for God without God’s intervention.

 

[Hammster]

It doesn’t NEED to be anything. But as Christians, we petition God for what we desire in prayer.

Do you not pray for others?

That didn’t answer the question. What is wrong with a person’s heart that it needs softened? That’s what you are praying for, right? If it doesn’t NEED softened, why pray for that?

 

[Hammster]

Well yes you have. The Calvinist position is that no one comes to God without the regeneration of the Goly Spirit.

So you have argued against the ability of all mankind to make a decision for God without God’s intervention.

I’ve not argued against the ability to make a decision.

 

[Hammster]

Yep, I checked. I’ve never said man was unable.

 

[dad]

Good day, dad

I gave you a link to the historical Reformed answer to the question.... sorry if you are unable to understand it.

People go to Hell because they are sinners, no action by God is needed at all.

In Him,

Bill

Wrong. People cannot enter His presence because they reject Him. God did take action! His name was Jesus. He did something!

 

[dad]

I’m not sure what you mean hear, and I want to give an accurate response without assumptions.

I thin the point there was that WE love Him because He first loved us, but those who reject Him by choice do not love Him regardless.

 

[dad]

Not even close. I’ve stated over and over and over (and given scripture) that we are regenerated first, then we believe. It’s the regeneration that gives us our new nature. If we could be pleasing to God without the change, there’d be no need to change it.

Great, so do we chose to be regenerated? You seem to be inserting some step in there to avoid having free choice.

 

[dad]

Nobody has argued against our ability to make choices.

If the 'we' includes man kind, and they are doomed to hell regardless of anything, then that is not choice. Is that not obvious?

If you are claiming some process happened to some selected few so they magically get an ability to 'choose' (although it was pre arranged anyhow) then that is not free choice either.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That didn’t answer the question. What is wrong with a person’s heart that it needs softened? That’s what you are praying for, right? If it doesn’t NEED softened, why pray for that?

I’m not even going to start explaining to you why we pray for are family and friends and the lost.

If you have no idea, nothing I say can make you understand.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I’ve not argued against the ability to make a decision.

Maybe you forgot.

 

[Hammster]

I thin the point there was that WE love Him because He first loved us, but those who reject Him by choice do not love Him regardless.

It’s prescriptive, not indicative. You have it backwards.

 

[Hammster]

Great, so do we chose to be regenerated? You seem to be inserting some step in there to avoid having free choice.

No, we don’t choose to be regenerated. Why would we? We hate God. He’s our enemy. We don’t seek him. This describes the unregenerate. God’s love changes us, though.

 

[Hammster]

If the 'we' includes man kind, and they are doomed to hell regardless of anything, then that is not choice. Is that not obvious?

If you are claiming some process happened to some selected few so they magically get an ability to 'choose' (although it was pre arranged anyhow) then that is not free choice either.

Their choice, made freely, is to continue to hate God and reject him. You seem to think that’s not a choice.

 

[Hammster]

I’m not even going to start explaining to you why we pray for are family and friends and the lost.

If you have no idea, nothing I say can make you understand.

Nice dodge. It’s obvious that you can’t really explain it. It would through a wrench into the works.

And I didn’t ask why we should pray for the lost. I know. I just wondered why you did since you seem adamant that God doesn’t intervene.