Did God predestine the Fall?

[BBAS 64]

It really shouldn’t be.

I was in your shoes when I started at CF. Debated those nasty Calvinists all of the time.

So I understand where you’re coming from, and why.

I remember those days... where is momof7, and reformist?

 

[Hammster]

I remember those days... where is momof7, and reformist?

Not sure. A lot of them have just left. Tired of the fight, I suppose.

 

[dad]

So if we (choose to try and believe, and accept) Jesus, we then are born of God. Saved. That does not mean we magically somehow are the special few chosen to have believing power on steroids, and THIS is WHY we believe!! You kidding? This simply reminds us that we who believe in Jesus are born of God.
So naturally, now that we are in the Family of God and have Jesus, the Father loves us to smithereens.

NOTHING whatsoever to do with Calvinist pre arranged damnation/salvation.

How about you explain the Calvinist position clearly then? Do you believe all men on eart have their eternal fates determined by their own free choices, heaven or hell. Yes or no?

Ha

 

[Hammster]

Canons of Dort

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Dad

Still waiting...



Primary source please.... you baseless assertion is growing old.

In Him,

Bill

How about you explain the Calvinist position clearly then? Do you believe all men on eart have their eternal fates determined by their own free choices, heaven or hell. Yes or no?

Ha[/QUOTE]

Good Day, dad

No redirection here... back up your baseless assertion with primary sources or ask the question in a new thread.

You said "with Calvinist pre arranged damnation"

I did supply you a place to start your understanding on the topic.

Now your source please, or take down your Strawman.

In Him,

Bill

 

[dad]

Canons of Dort

A few things from your article

". In accordance with this decree God graciously softens the hearts, however hard, of the elect and inclines them to believe, but by a just judgment God leaves in their wickedness and hardness of heart those who have not been chosen.
'
In other words most people He leaves to go to hell, and performs some special process on what they refer to as the 'elect'.
In other words no choice at all.

Thanks for that.


"God chose in Christ to salvation a definite number of particular people out of the entire human race, .."

Same sort of claim again.

"Those chosen were neither better nor more deserving than the others, but lay with them in the common misery"

So the ' Heaven lottery winners' were picked, and the rest of mankind doomed to eternal hell. Interesting.

"God decreed to give to Christ those chosen for salvation"

..and of course through no desire on their part to choose Jesus..etc etc..and to hell with the rest of the world. Interesting. (and no one better call that flaming, because the founding doctrine explicitly claims this)


"This same election took place, not on the basis of foreseen faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, or of any other good quality and disposition, as though it were based on a prerequisite cause or condition in the person to be chosen, .."

ABSOLUTELY NO REAL CHOICE FOR ANY MAN ON EARTH THEN.

Kids...flee this false doctrine, God is not like that at all.

 

[dad]

Good Day, dad

No redirection here... back up your baseless assertion with primary sources or ask the question in a new thread.

You said "with Calvinist pre arranged damnation"

I did supply you a place to start your understanding on the topic.

Now your source please, or take down your Strawman.

In Him,

Bill

Besides the posters who spelled it out six ways from Sunday, Hamster provided an admission of guilt for us that seems official!

 

[Hammster]

Heaven lottery winners'

Lotteries are random chance. I would never use those words to describe what God does.

 

[dad]

Lotteries are random chance. I would never use those words to describe what God does.

To the person with the ticket is seems random. In the context of the debate over free choice random refers to having no personal choice. All pre arranged. Sorry that seems more like Hinduism than Christianity to me!

 

[Hammster]

To the person with the ticket is seems random. In the context of the debate over free choice random refers to having no personal choice. All pre arranged. Sorry that seems more like Hinduism than Christianity to me!

Then I’m sorry that your understanding of Christianity is clouded.

 

[dad]

Then I’m sorry that your understanding of Christianity is clouded.

Ha. Sorry Calvinists don't really know the love of God.

 

[Hammster]

Ha. Sorry Calvinists don't really know the love of God.

We know we are elect. How much more love could we know?

 

[dad]

We know we are elect. How much more love could we know?

We could know He loved the whole world and died for them, and said we just need to ask. That is nothing like having men's damnation pre arranged with no hope, and having believers have no choice either!

 

[Hammster]

We could know He loved the whole world and died for them, and said we just need to ask. That is nothing like having men's damnation pre arranged with no hope, and having believers have no choice either!

Except the Bible talks about Him dying for His sheep. If He took the penalty for all people, He’d be unjust in sending anyone to hell.

I get why you believe what you do. I used to think the same way. But I have to stick with scripture says and not what I want it to say.

 

[dad]

Except the Bible talks about Him dying for His sheep. If He took the penalty for all people, He’d be unjust in sending anyone to hell.

Not if they had the choice.

I get why you believe what you do. I used to think the same way. But I have to stick with scripture says and not what I want it to say.

That's OK, I sometimes listen to John MacArthur, and agree with say, 88% of what he says. When he starts mentioning any aspect of TULIP, I tune him way way out.

I think I get what Calvinists claim now. I expressed my opinion about it.

Nothing to do now but agree to disagree.

cheers

 

[Hammster]

Not if they had the choice.

Yes He would. You don’t punish people for nothing. That’s not being just.

 

[ToBeLoved]

To the person with the ticket is seems random. In the context of the debate over free choice random refers to having no personal choice. All pre arranged. Sorry that seems more like Hinduism than Christianity to me!

I agree.

ACalvinist could say God puts it upon the heart of the lottery ticket winners to get a ticket.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Not if they had the choice.
That's OK, I sometimes listen to John MacArthur, and agree with say, 88% of what he says. When he starts mentioning any aspect of TULIP, I tune him way way out.

I think I get what Calvinists claim now. I expressed my opinion about it.

Nothing to do now but agree to disagree.

cheers

I like MacArthur too until the Calvinist stuff.

I might add James White to that list too, but I don’t know why he supports Mr. Brown. Hmmm ...

I think that’s why God created the Stop button on video for times like these.

 

[dad]

I like MacArthur too until the Calvinist stuff.

I might add James White to that list too, but I don’t know why he supports Mr. Brown. Hmmm ...

I think that’s why God created the Stop button on video for times like these.

Yes, thankfully we all have our relationship with God and the Scripture is available to all. Some people may be brilliant in some areas and correct, but we can overrule them in a New York minute with all the authority of heaven as needed.

 

[Jonaitis]

For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?

Yes.