Did God predestine the Fall?

[Hammster]

Who cares if people please God before they get saved? Of course they could not. Your attempt at equating the power of choosing between good and evil (free will) to 'pleasing God' is noted. Choice actually is to please God or NOT. Not all the decisions of man please God.

I’m actually going with scripture. It says we cannot please God in the flesh. Believing God is pleasing. Repenting is pleasing. Not pretending He doesn’t exist is pleasing.

 

[BBAS 64]

The issue is not serving or pleasing God here, the issue is choosing to do so or not. Only after we make the right choice can we begin pleasing God.

OK


There is someone that wants to do that and only waits for us to choose/ask.
In other words after we choose Jesus, we can then start living being made right.

Good Day, dad

John 6 is very clear we are unable to come to Jesus.

No man can come= universal inability.

Are you suggesting we have the ability to choose that which we are incapable of?

God is the effective cause of our rebirth, we are merely the object of his intentional will.


Jn 1- who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

He is the only cause required to effect the change.

In Him,

Bill

 

[dad]

I’m actually going with scripture. It says we cannot please God in the flesh. Believing God is pleasing. Repenting is pleasing. Not pretending He doesn’t exist is pleasing.

We will have to agree to disagree. Nowhere does it say that in order to be able to repent, or choose good and evil we must first please God. The pleasing God part comes after we come to Him/get saved/born again/repent. Not before. Looking at Scripture in this light we see a wonderful God that allows all men to choose heaven or hell. That means we ca't blame God.

 

[dad]

Good Day, dad

John 6 is very clear we are unable to come to Jesus.

No man can come= universal inability.

From John 6 I notice this

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Then right after the verse you speak about we see this

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

So who can come and be saved? Every man who hears and learns we can accept the free gift of Jesus!

Every single man woman and child on earth can come to Him, believe on Him and have everlasting life.



Jesus was talking to people who rejected Him.

John 6: 6 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


Therefore those that are (given to Jesus by the father) = (those who come to Him)!!!

wow

Are you suggesting we have the ability to choose that which we are incapable of?

We are not incapable of coming to Jesus. When and if we do we are those given to Jesus by the Father. It is our choice that determines whether we are of the chosen of God! It is our choice that we come to Jesus or not. That means heaven and hell are there for our choosing. Not pre arranged for people for reasons that have nothing to do with them.

God is the effective cause of our rebirth, we are merely the object of his intentional will.

False. God is the cause of the rebirth ONLY of those that choose Jesus! That results in being born again.

Jn 1- who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus was born by the will of God, and all who believe by choice on Him also become born again by the will of God. Yes believers are born again of the will of God, and that is only because they choose to be.

He is the only cause required to effect the change.

That is impossible if He gave man the choice, and we see He did from cover to cover in the bible. WE are also required! Our choice to come to Jesus is needed.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I’m actually going with scripture. It says we cannot please God in the flesh. Believing God is pleasing. Repenting is pleasing. Not pretending He doesn’t exist is pleasing.

That is true. Until we are born again nothing we do is pleasing to God.

In Christ, we please God

 

[Hammster]

We will have to agree to disagree. Nowhere does it say that in order to be able to repent, or choose good and evil we must first please God. The pleasing God part comes after we come to Him/get saved/born again/repent. Not before. Looking at Scripture in this light we see a wonderful God that allows all men to choose heaven or hell. That means we ca't blame God.

You are trying to counter an argument that I’ve not made. I never said that in order to repent, or choose good and evil we must first please God. So there’s nothing to agree to disagree on since you cannot articulate the argument straight from Romans 8.

 

[Hammster]

That is true. Until we are born again nothing we do is pleasing to God.

In Christ, we please God

This is why regeneration precedes faith.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is why regeneration precedes faith.

Simple and delightful !

Is faith still a gift from Yahweh?

 

[Hammster]

Simple and delightful !

Is faith still a gift from Yahweh?

“Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

“Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Taking that as a complicated yes, since it is written plainly "..faith, which is a gift..."

Then who tells Yahweh when to give, or not to give , a gift which He Gives whenever He Pleases ?

 

[Hammster]

Taking that as a complicated yes, since it is written plainly "..faith, which is a gift..."

Then who tells Yahweh when to give, or not to give , a gift which He Gives whenever He Pleases ?

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, - Ephesians 1:11

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, - Ephesians 1:11

GOOD !

Well, then, since FAITH is a GIFT that YAHWEH GIVES WHENEVER HE PLEASES,
HE can VERY WELL GIVE HIS GIFT TO ANYONE !

THANK YOU !

This helps a lot.

Makes a lot of people happy !
(potentially)

 

[dad]

That is true. Until we are born again nothing we do is pleasing to God.

In Christ, we please God

I think what he was really saying is that we can't choose till we are born again.

 

[dad]

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, - Ephesians 1:11

And His will is that we decide to come to Him or not.

 

[dad]

You are trying to counter an argument that I’ve not made. I never said that in order to repent, or choose good and evil we must first please God. So there’s nothing to agree to disagree on since you cannot articulate the argument straight from Romans 8.

You think man chooses heaven or hell?

 

[Hammster]

And His will is that we decide to come to Him or not.

Partly. But since we won’t, in the flesh (see Romans 8), He intervenes.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Partly. But since we won’t, in the flesh (see Romans 8), He intervenes.

GOOD !

Well, then, since FAITH is a GIFT that YAHWEH GIVES WHENEVER HE PLEASES,
HE can VERY WELL GIVE HIS GIFT TO ANYONE !

THANK YOU !

This helps a lot.

Makes a lot of people happy !
(potentially)

 

[dad]

Partly. But since we won’t, in the flesh (see Romans 8), He intervenes.

No. He never intervenes with choice.

 

[Hammster]

You think man chooses heaven or hell?

Short answer, yes.

 

[Hammster]

No. He never intervenes with choice.

I don’t believe I said that He did.