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Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

expos4ever

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....show why your teachings of lawlessness (without law) is not biblical while only hoping the best for you.
This a manifestly false claim. I have never, repeat never taught lawlessness.

Why you think it is acceptable to make demonstrably false statements is quite a mystery.
 
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Leaf473

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Right, so is it fair to say that we don't keep the law the same way that Jesus did?
 
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expos4ever

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So is avoiding scripture and not answering questions and asking questions and pretending questions have not been answered when they have
Deeply misleading.

You have made a manifestly false claim - that I have denied that Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 refer to the 10 commandments.

I never made any such claim. In fact, the transcript of this thread shows I have done the obvious.

Yes, I have not answered all your questions yet, but that does not justify your misrepresenting me.

When you claim that a question has been answered by you, and yet your answers bobs and weaves around the question without actually answering it, that does not, in any reasonable sense, count as an "answer".
 
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Leaf473

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I thought that you had said in the past that we must obey the letter of certain laws, not for salvation but because not obeying them was sin.

That's why I was talking about the letter of the laws.

When you say
It not about the letter...
are you saying that it is not a sin to disobey the letter?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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We will have to agree to disagree and this gets sorted out soon enough. God bless and I wish you well.
 
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Leaf473

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So is avoiding scripture and not answering questions and asking questions and pretending questions have not been answered when they have
That's right! We want to avoid all those things.

Like it says an Ephesians, we want to say Only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear.
 
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Leaf473

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I've asked about the tassels before. IIRC, the response was that the tassels law was still in effect, but we weren't to keep it with actual tassels. We kept it by listening to the Holy Spirit. I think that would be going with the principal of the law, not the actual letter. And that's fine with me.

Now the two kinds of material in your clothing, that's an interesting law!
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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the response was that the tassels law was still in effect, but we weren't to keep it with actual tassels. We kept it by listening to the Holy Spirit

Sounds rather slippery slope. How many laws can we do that with?
 
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expos4ever

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Actually no I see your post here is only more evasion on your side I am still waiting for you to address my posts and the scripture contexts that disagree with your teachings of lawlessness (without law) that your unwilling to discuss with me.
Simple question:

Did you, or did you not, pen these words:

LoveGodsWord said:
One on your claims in regards to God's 10 commandments not being referred to in Romans 3:20; and Romans 7:7

Answer: you most certainly did.

Now then, where have I ever asserted that the 10 commandments are not being referred to in relation to in either of these texts.
 
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expos4ever

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Repetition already addressed in previous posts you have not been responsive to. Go read them.
Untrue - you have never addressed the particular argument I posted in post 385 (which is what your post, above, responds to).
 
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expos4ever

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Where in the scriptures that have been provided does it say Jesus is repudiating, repealing, abolishing the Sabbath law? - Nowhere!
I want to address this head on since it is one instance of a more general debating tactic that is clearly invalid. The claim here is that there is no direct declaration anywhere in Scripture that Jesus abolishes the Sabbath.

True enough.

However, there is no direct declaration in scripture of the doctrine of the Trinity. Or that Jesus's return to Jerusalem as described in Luke constitutes the promised return of Yahweh to His people. But there are powerful arguments for both these positions nonetheless.

We need to be a little more sophisticated in our thinking. To rule some hypothesis out because there is not "a verse" to support that hypothesis is elementary school thinking.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This a manifestly false claim. I have never, repeat never taught lawlessness. Why you think it is acceptable to make demonstrably false statements is quite a mystery.
Well I disagree with you here dear friend as lawlessness essentially means without law. Your teaching is that Gods' law or 10 commandments have been abolished. Therefore you teach lawlessness which means without law.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No my post was not misleading at all. The post you are quoting from was addressed to someone else so please don't pretend it was written to you. Your making strawman arguments no one is arguing about. Go re-read the conversation of what you said in post # 203 with my response to you in post # 208 that your only part quoting me on. My understanding of what you were arguing in your post was....

1. That Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished and done away with in the new covenant (which is not biblical or supported in scriptures and is a teaching of lawlessness (my meaning here is without law) and

2. You were also trying to argue that Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 do not really mean that God's 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is today under the new covenant scriptures and that was for the past. Therefore not referring to God's 10 commandments today.
Is that your view or do I have a misunderstanding of what you wrote earlier?

Now think the implications through for both of the above in relation to Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7....

(1a) If you do not believe that God's 10 commandments are for today but only for the past, then your simply re-affirming what I said to you the first time and that is you do not believe that God's 10 commandments apply to us today in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7.

(2b) If you believe that Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 are talking about God's 10 commandments today then these scriptures disagree with you because these new covenant scriptures that simply state that the purpose of Gods' 10 commandments is to give us a knowledge of what sin is which agrees with James 2:10-11 and what John says in 1 John 3:4 is showing that Gods' 10 commandments are not abolished today which is in disagreement with you.​

So clear it up, which is it 1a or 2b?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No I have said in the past as I do now, that the purpose of God's law according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed. According to the new covenant scriptures, Gods' 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. Not obeying God's law is the bibles definition of sin and the wages of sin is death according to Romans 6:23 but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. That is the purpose of Gods' law under the new covenant. Gods' law reveals to us all that we are all sinners and in need of Gods' salvation from sin and leads us to Christ that we might receive Gods' forgiveness through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and made free to walk in newness of life *Romans 6:1-23 in Gods' Spirit *Galatians 5:16 as we are born again by faith into Gods' new covenant promise to love *see 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:2-4. It is sin to disobey Gods' law that is how we know that we are all sinners in need of Gods' grace, salvation and forgiveness *see Matthew 9:12-13.

Hope this may clear up any misunderstandings.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's right! We want to avoid all those things.
Like it says an Ephesians, we want to say Only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Is it building up or tearing down to let others know that sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it our of God's kingdom? If you answer tearing down then how do you reconcile what Paul and Jesus say in Hebrews 10:26-27; John 8:24; Luke 13:3? Is it love or hate to warn others that if they continue in known unrepentant sin they will not enter into the Kingdom of God?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Repetition already addressed in previous posts you have not been responsive to. Go read them.
Your response here...
Untrue - you have never addressed the particular argument I posted in post 385 (which is what your post, above, responds to).
It is true dear friend. Why are you claiming I have not addressed post # 385 when it was a post that was never addressed to me and was a conversation you were having with someone else? That is a little misleading in your post here is it not as I am not following all your conversations with other people here and your post was never addressed to me.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Where in the scriptures that have been provided does it say Jesus is repudiating, repealing, abolishing the Sabbath law? - Nowhere!
Your response here...
So in essence you agree with me when I say there is no scripture anywhere in the entire bible
that says Jesus is repudiating, repealing, abolishing the Sabbath law? Then why make claims that are not supported in the scriptures? (see post # 320 for context)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your making strawman arguments no one is arguing about. Go re-read the conversation of what you said in post # 203 with my response to you in post # 208 (provided for transparency) that your only part quoting me on.

My understanding of what of your earlier post was that Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished which is not biblical or supported in scriptures and is a false teaching which is the focus of my discussion with you. As posted earlier, go re-read the conversation of what you said in post # 203 with my response to you in post # 208 that your only part quoting me on.

As posted earlier, my understanding of what you were arguing in your post was....

1. That Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished which is not biblical or supported in scriptures and is a teaching of lawlessness (my meaning here is without law) and

2. You were trying to argue that Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 do not really mean that God's 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is under the new covenant scriptures today that was for the past. Therefore not referring to God's 10 commandments today.​

Is that your view or do I have a misunderstanding of what you wrote?

Now think it through. Even if you believe that Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 are talking about God's 10 commandments today then these scriptures disagree with you because these new covenant scriptures that simply state that the purpose of Gods' 10 commandments is to give us a knowledge of what sin is which agrees with James 2:10-11 and what John says in 1 John 3:4 is showing that Gods' 10 commandments are not abolished today which is in disagreement with you.

Alternatively, if you do not believe that God's 10 commandments are for today then your simply re-affirming what I said to you the first time and that is you do not believe that God's 10 commandments apply to us today in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7.

So clear it up, which is it?
 
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Leaf473

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It doesn't quite clear things up yet. When you say:
It is sin to disobey Gods' law...
Are you referring to the ten commandments plus some other laws?
And by "disobey' do you mean disobey the letters or disobey the principles?

Grace and peace to you!
 
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