Did Adam have Eternal Life Pre-Fall?

[sawdust]

e) Adam enjoyed God's divine eternal life within his immortal spirit until he rebelled, when God took it from him, the physical death of his body being the proof of the loss of God's divine eternal life within his immortal spirit ("Dying, you shall die." Ge 2:17). . .which loss resulted in condemnation of his immortal spirit, and with which condemnation all Adam's descendants are now born (Ro 5:18).

So when we die physically that's proof we have lost our eternal life or do you just have one rule for Adam and another rule for us?

 

[Blade]

There was no sin before the fall. If we look out into the sea of people that know Him not they are dead. That is what God said by if you eat of this tree you will die. The word talks about it the old man the new man the new creation. Paul by the sweet sweet holy Spirit talked about how what he wants to do should do he does not. Those things he does not want to do he does. Then the key....its not longer I that do it but sin that is in me. Thats part of this fallen world sin. We are not of this world we have a new spirit.

Hard to see going from the natural to the supernatural. I love this song playing "if you touched my face would I know you, looked into my eyes could I behold you. What I do I Know of holy"

 

[Clare73]

Adam is an example of losing enternal life by choosing to sin
If he had not sinned he would not have been blocked from the tree of life which ensures eternal life and therefor would not have died

Keeping in mind that eternal life is not about the human body living forever.
Eternal life is God's divine life imparted to the immortal human spirit, which divine life is everlasting in its nature.
Adam lost God's divine life imparted to Adam's immortal spirit when Adam rebelled, which loss is called spiritual death, but does not mean the death of the immortal human spirit, but rather the loss of God's divine life within the immortal human spirit.

So Adam's loss of "eternal life" does not refer to his loss of immortal physical life, but to his loss of God's divine life within his immortal spirit.
Adam's loss of immortal physical life results in "physical death, "while
his loss of God's divine life within his immortal spirit is called "spiritual death," though his immortal spirit itself does not die.

 

[Mark Quayle]

When you give man free will the decision becomes man's, not God's. But I am sure God had it covered either way.

If God had it covered, then whether it is man's decision or not, it is God's decision. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Clare73]

Again it fails to answer .. we sin and don't die. Adam sinned and died. Why? What's the difference?

Adam's sin resulted in two kinds of death, spiritual (immediate loss of God's divine life within his spirit) and physical (hundreds of years later).

We likewise suffer physical death, just as Adam did for sin, and we are born in spiritual death (no God's divine life within our immortal spirit).

 

[Clare73]

So when we die physically that's proof we have lost our eternal life or do you just have one rule for Adam and another rule for us?

We are born without (God's divine) eternal life within our immortal spirits, which is eternal death, and are born condemned (Ro 5:18).
We die physically because of our guilt of Adam's sin (Ro 5:18).
See post #23.

 

[timothyu]

We don't drop dead the moment we sin. If that were so the first selfish act of a baby would be their end and man would have died out ages ago. Failure to change from selfish to caring way simply mean no room at the inn of the next Kingdom. Game over for the self centered.

 

[timothyu]

it is God's decision

God's decision is that man in the end will be in His image still. How we get there is still our choice, He having given His will, while we continually prefer our own., Toss flailed grain in the air and see what lands and what blows away.

 

[sawdust]

We are born without (God's divine) eternal life within our immortal spirits, which is eternal death, and are born condemned (Ro 5:18).
We die physically because of our guilt of Adam's sin (Ro 5:18).
See post #23.

You do understand that immortal means "unable to die". You effectively have left Adam with a dead immortal human spirit. It's an oxymoron.

Adam's sin resulted in two kinds of death, spiritual (immediate loss of God's divine life within his spirit) and physical (hundreds of years later).

We likewise suffer physical death, just as Adam did for sin, and we are born in spiritual death (no God's divine life within our immortal spirit).

It still doesn't answer the question. Spiritual and physical death are connected we both agree. I wasn't talking about how we are born spiritually, I'm talking about believers who have eternal life and don't die spiritually when we sin. Having eternal life is what guarantees we will never die spiritually. (Jn3:15,16) If Adam had eternal life when he was created then how could he have died spiritually? You are effectively having one rule for Adam and another rule for the rest of us.

 

[sawdust]

We don't drop dead the moment we sin. If that were so the first selfish act of a baby would be their end and man would have died out ages ago. Failure to change from selfish to caring way simply mean no room at the inn of the next Kingdom. Game over for the self centered.

This isn't about physical death. The following verse is referencing Adam's original sin and is talking about spiritual death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

This isn't about physical death. The following verse is referencing Adam's original sin and is talking about spiritual death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 5 talks about Adam's sin and its consequence for mankind - but Rom 6:23 is talking about each individual person's sin.

Rom 6:
What then are we to say? Should we continue in sin in order that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin go on living in it?
...

12 Therefore, do not let sin exercise dominion in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. 13 No longer present your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and present your members to God as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
...
20 When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 So what advantage did you then get from the things of which you now are ashamed? The end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been freed from sin and enslaved to God, the advantage you get is sanctification. The end is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[timothyu]

Spiritual death means no access to the Kingdom and yes we have a circuit breaker that allows us to connect with or break away from God. Adam and Eve committed the original sin of putting their will ahead of God's. They broke the circuit, but in seeing the error of their ways and understanding it with their new knowledge of good and evil, they were still capable of changing back to the will of God rather than their own. That is all God asks of any of us, allegiance to him alone

 

[sawdust]

Romans 5 talks about Adam's sin and its consequence for mankind - but Rom 6:23 is talking about each individual person's sin.

It's in the singular. It is talking about one sin, Adam's. A baby isn't born spiritually dead because it sinned. It is born that way because Adam sinned.

 

[Mark Quayle]

God's decision is that man in the end will be in His image still. How we get there is still our choice, He having given His will, while we continually prefer our own., Toss flailed grain in the air and see what lands and what blows away.

How we get there is our choice, precisely coming to pass as God has decreed.

 

[GenemZ]

Only God is eternal life.

The saved human soul has been granted everlasting life.

Eternal life (God) had no beginning, and has no end.
In contrast to God, everlasting life had a beginning, but has no end.

Adam had a beginning. For he was created.
He therefore could not have been created with eternal life.

Adam in the Garden was being tested by God to see if he should warrant being granted everlasting life.

Now....


The Holy Spirit, being God... is given permanently to the Bride of Christ, His church.
The Holy Spirit being God, is eternal life indwelling us. We have been given eternal life!

Having been given the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit is how God gave us Eternal Life.
For we have been given God to live in us forever.

hope that helps......

 

[sawdust]

Only God is eternal life.

The saved human soul has been granted everlasting life.

Eternal life (God) had no beginning, and has no end.
In contrast to God, everlasting life had a beginning, but has no end.

Adam had a beginning. For he was created.
He therefore could not have been created with eternal life.

Adam in the Garden was being tested by God to see if he should warrant being granted everlasting life.

Now....


The Holy Spirit, being God... is given permanently to the Bride of Christ, His church.
The Holy Spirit being God, is eternal life indwelling us. We have been given eternal life!

Having been given the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit is how God gave us Eternal Life.
For we have been given God to live in us forever.

hope that helps......

Does this mean OT saints did not have eternal life?

 

[fhansen]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What say you?

As long as they remained in God they were immortal. God will always have the power of life and death over His creation; God is life.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

In Orthodox theology, Adam and Eve pre-fall were in an indeterminate state. They weren't immortal because they had not eaten from the Tree of Life, nor were they mortal as they had not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. In fact, death becomes a mercy from God because we can not sin for eternity.

St. Gregory the Theologian writes, “Yet here too He provides a benefit – namely death, which cuts off sin, so that evil may not be everlasting. Thus His punishment is changed into a mercy.”

With today being the start of Orthodox Lent, please forgive me if I have done anything to offend.

Dialectic asked where Gregory's quote came from. Orations 45:VIII last line, but read the entire paragraph for context.

CHURCH FATHERS: Oration 45 (Gregory Nazianzen)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Keeping in mind that eternal life is not about the human body living forever.
Eternal life is God's divine life imparted to the immortal human spirit, which divine life is everlasting in its nature.
Adam lost God's divine life imparted to Adam's immortal spirit when Adam rebelled, which loss is called spiritual death, but does not mean the death of the immortal human spirit, but rather the loss of God's divine life within the immortal human spirit.

So Adam's loss of "eternal life" does not refer to his loss of immortal physical life, but to his loss of God's divine life within his immortal spirit.
Adam's loss of immortal physical life results in "physical death, "while
his loss of God's divine life within his immortal spirit is called "spiritual death," though his immortal spirit itself does not die.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
King James Version
​

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

immortal spirit defies the above biblical statement

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Again it fails to answer .. we sin and don't die. Adam sinned and died. Why? What's the difference?

Just wait and we sinners will die unless Jesus sees us fit to go throught the tribulation and see his second coming