Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

[ralliann]

You edited it after I already posted to you, I typically do not check for edits after I have posted.

Sorry I have no idea the point you are trying to make here. Every time we see the word rest, it doesn't mean its the Sabbath. The rest in Duet 4:9 is not connected to the Sabbath commandment. What point are you trying to make?

I do not know what you are talking about.
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
There is the sabbath of rest to the land. It is a rest. And God rested on the seventh day. Hebrews clearly talks about entering into that rest.

In Christ rest there is no disobedience/rebellion to Him, including disobeying the Sabbath commandment.

In Christ there is just peace because there is no transgression against His commandments.

Isaiah 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

It is what Hebrews is speaking about, and the Sabbath is a "REST". There are Sabbaths plural which are RESTS. Ie. the day of atonement no matter the day of the week, rather a day in the calendar
1. foreshadow (past event in Joshua) Hebrews translates it Jesus because it is the same name used differently in the text. But same guy, same event.
2. foretold ( prophetic future event) Hence another day.

Heb 4:8 For if (Joshua) Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
The above is speaking of the "REST" of inheritance which Moses said they had not yet come to, the rest that Joshua had given them.

De 1:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
De 3:28 But charge Joshua, and encourage him, and strengthen him: for he shall go over before this people, and he shall cause them to inherit the land which thou shalt see.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I do not know what you are talking about.
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
There is the sabbath of rest to the land. It is a rest. And God rested on the seventh day. Hebrews clearly talks about entering into that rest.

Your post was not about Exodus 16:23, you quoted Deut 4:9 not Exodus 16:23. Still not sure the point you are trying to make. Exodus 16:23 is about the Sabbath commandment, Deut 4:9 is not.

It is what Hebrews is speaking about, and the Sabbath is a "REST". There are Sabbaths plural which are RESTS. Ie. the day of atonement no matter the day of the week, rather a day in the calendar
1. foreshadow (past event in Joshua) Hebrews translates it Jesus because it is the same name used differently in the text. But same guy, same event.
2. foretold ( prophetic future event) Hence another day.

These seem to be your words, nothing I can find in scriptures.

Heb 4:8 For if (Joshua) Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
The above is speaking of the "REST" of inheritance which Moses said they had not yet come to, the rest that Joshua had given them.

Yes, the rest in Hebrews 4:8 is not referring to the Sabbath rest. The scriptures will provide the context if it is the Sabbath rest/commandment. The rest here is about the rest into the promise land and it is bringing us back to the story of Joshua and another day was spoken of because the Israelites disobeyed which delayed them entering into the Promise Land of Canaan and some didn't even enter due to their disobedience in the wilderness. Eze 20:13 Eze 20:21. We are called not to follow the same path of disobedience as the Israelites Hebrews 4:6 Hebrews 4:11

This is the rest in Hebrews 4:8 the rest here is not connected to the Sabbath

katapauó: to cause to cease, to rest
Original Word: καταπαύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katapauó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap-ow'-o)
Definition: to cause to cease, to rest
Usage: (a) trans: I cause to rest, bring to rest; I cause to refrain, (b) intrans: I rest.

De 1:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
De 3:28 But charge Joshua, and encourage him, and strengthen him: for he shall go over before this people, and he shall cause them to inherit the land which thou shalt see.

Yes, its referring to land, not the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath commandment is about worship and honoring God on His holy, blessed and sanctified day. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23, Matthew 15:3-9

 

[ralliann]

Your post was not about Exodus 16:23, you quoted Deut 4:9 not Exodus 16:23. Still not sure the point you are trying to make. Exodus 16:23 is about the Sabbath commandment, Deut 4:9 is not.

These seem to be your words, nothing I can find in scriptures.

Yes, the rest in Hebrews 4:8 is not referring to the Sabbath rest. The scriptures will provide the context if it is the Sabbath rest/commandment. The rest here is about the rest into the promise land and it is bringing us back to the story of Joshua and another day was spoken of because the Israelites disobeyed which delayed them entering into the Promise Land of Canaan and some didn't even enter due to their disobedience in the wilderness. Eze 20:13 Eze 20:21. We are called not to follow the same path of disobedience as the Israelites Hebrews 4:6 Hebrews 4:11

This is the rest in Hebrews 4:8 the rest here is not connected to the Sabbath

katapauó: to cause to cease, to rest
Original Word: καταπαύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katapauó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap-ow'-o)
Definition: to cause to cease, to rest
Usage: (a) trans: I cause to rest, bring to rest; I cause to refrain, (b) intrans: I rest.



Yes, its referring to land, not the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath commandment is about worship and honoring God on His holy, blessed and sanctified day. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23, Matthew 15:3-9

Are you able to hear scripture?
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you able to hear scripture?
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Every time we see the word rest, does not make it about the Sabbath. There is more than one rest in this passage. There is Christ's rest and the Sabbath rest which is on the seventh day and is a commandment. Exodus 20:10 Christ rest is not one of the commandments- Christ is not a commandment or rest, He is the Creator of everything including the commandments and rest. There is no rebellion in Christ rest and that is what this whole passage is about.

Hebrews 4:5 is connected to Hebrews 4:6 and the rest here in Hebrews 4:5 is Christ's rest not the seventh day Sabbath rest.

katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Definition: rest
Usage: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.

Hebrews 4:4 is about the seventh day Sabbath rest and establishes when God rested from His works and this is brings us back to the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11 (He spoke in a certain way of the seventh day- at Mt Siani.) which connects to Hebrews 4:9 NIV and Hebrews 4:10. In Hebrews 4:10 it tells us how to enter into Christ rest. Hebrews 4:11 reminds us not to follow the same path of disobedience as the Israelites in the wilderness, who profaned God's Sabbath Eze 20:13, Eze 20:21 which is why there is a plea TODAY to not harden our hearts in rebellion Hebrews 3:7-8 Hebrews 4:7, Psalms 95:7-8 Hebrews 3:15 to God. When we break God's commandments that is rebellion to God and Hebrews 4 is calling us to keep the Sabbath, which is why it remains (not changed) for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9 NIV and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

Strong's Concordance
4520. sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


I wrote a detailed post about the rest in Hebrews 4 found here...

Two kinds of Sabbath rest

There is a physical kind and there is a spiritual kind. The first kind of Sabbath rest was periodic, Exodus 34: 21 Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest. Every Sabbath day (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)...

www.christianforums.com

 

[ralliann]

Sabbaths of rest
1st day seventh month
Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Anther sabbath on the 10th day of the 7th month
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

15th day 7th month a sabbath
39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sabbaths of rest
1st day seventh month
Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Anther sabbath on the 10th day of the 7th month
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

15th day 7th month a sabbath
39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

Yes, there are more than one Sabbath in the scriptures. There is only one weekly Sabbath commandment that came before sin and is a commandment of God, both written by God's own finger and spoken by God's own voice. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20, Exodus 32:16, Exodus 31:18 Deut 4:13

There are the annual sabbath(s) feast day ordinances that came after sin. They serve a different purpose than the weekly seventh day Sabbath.

 

[ralliann]

Every time we see the word rest, does not make it about the Sabbath.

I am talking about Hebrews.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

There is more than one rest in this passage.

Yes, and in what way is it more than sabbath? The text is speaking of Gods rest on the seventh day in the beginning OBVIOUSLY Heb 4:4

There is Christ's rest

Bingo, which is what David prophesied, as another day.

and the Sabbath rest which is on the seventh day and is a commandment.

No, this is what you are missing, ignoring, I do not know which. It OBVIOUSLY is talking about JOSHUA taking them into the rest of their inheritance.
This is speaking of those who died in the wilderness and could not go into the land. It was 40 years later. These would not enter, his rest........
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

This not about the 7th day rest of the Sabbath
They would not go in and take the land promised them.
It says nothing of them not keeping the seventh day but it does say Not a one kept the covenant of circumcision.
They were not compliant in keeping the very covenant which the land grant was based upon
Jos 5:2 At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time.
3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.
5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am talking about Hebrews.

So am I.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

The Sabbath no doubt

Yes, and in what way is it more than sabbath?

In Hebrews 4 it is referring not only to the Sabbath commandment, but Christ rest. These are different things and the context in these verses tells us which rest it is referring to. Not every time we see rest is it connected to the seventh day Sabbath rest, scripture dictates this, not us.

he text is speaking of Gods rest on the seventh day in the beginning OBVIOUSLY Heb 4:4

Yes, I said that in the post you replied to, not sure if your reading my posts.

Bingo, which is what David prophesied, as another day.

This is not a prophecy, this is bringing us back to the time of David speaking of the trial in the wilderness. It's a quote from David,. Hebrews 4:7 Psalms 95:7-8. Today if we hear His voice do not harden our hearts in rebellion. Who is speaking here is the Holy Spirit trying to convict us of our sins (breaking God's law) because He loves us. The unforgivable sin ultimately is not hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit and being comfortable in sin.

Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,

The Holy Spirit pleas with us because God loves us and wants to give His children peace. In Christ rest there is no rebellion to Him just peace.

Isaiah 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

No, this is what you are missing, ignoring, I do not know which. It OBVIOUSLY is talking about JOSHUA taking them into the rest of their inheritance.

Not the entire passage, only the context in which it shows,

This is speaking of those who died in the wilderness and could not go into the land. It was 40 years later. These would not enter, his rest........
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Belief and disobedience is interchangeable in Hebrews see Hebrews 4:6. They did not enter into Christ rest (their inheritance) in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath Eze 20:13, Eze 20:21 among other disobedience, but this passage is a call for Sabbath-rest which remains for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9 NIV. There is no rebellion in Christ's rest, which is why there is a plea to hear His voice and do no rebel. Hebrews 4:7, Hebrews 3:7-8 Psalms 95:7-8 Do not wait another day to obey God we know not what tomorrow brings.

I am pretty detailed about the passage of Hebrews 4 and allowing the scripture to dictate what it means. Guess we will need to agree to disagree.

 

[ralliann]

So am I.

The Sabbath no doubt

In Hebrews 4 it is referring not only to the Sabbath commandment, but Christ rest.

No, it is contrasting the Shadow that was all fulfilled in Joshua, and that day which David foretold in Christ.

These are different things and the context in these verses tells us which rest it is referring to.

Yes and the context is what Hebrews says, and Hebrews puts the context of Entering into the rest of their inheritance through Joshua.

Not every time we see rest is it connected to the seventh day Sabbath rest, scripture dictates this, not us.

This has no relevance in this discussion, because it concerns the sabbath rest of the new covenant in Christ.

Yes, I said that in the post you replied to, not sure if your reading my posts.

No, I only went as far as the discussion of Hebrews The rest Moses Spoke of, then Joshua and what David prophesied. That is what Hebrews is about.
that is why I will not look at the rest of this post.
It is distinguishing between two rests. One as a foreshadow in Joshua, and that which David foretold in Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, it is contrasting the Shadow that was all fulfilled in Joshua, and that day which David foretold in Christ.

The shadow of what that is fulfilled in Joshua ?

Yes and the context is what Hebrews says, and Hebrews puts the context of Entering into the rest of their inheritance through Joshua.

This verse is showing us why the Israelites did not enter into their inheritance due to disobedience Hebrews 4:6 which is what we are warned not to follow the same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11

This has no relevance in this discussion, because it concerns the sabbath rest of the new covenant in Christ.

These are your words, not what is in scripture. In scripture it says the Sabbath rest (commandment) remains for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9 NIV

We know the weekly Sabbath commandment has not changed because God said we could not edit it. Deut 4:2 and the earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple where lies the Ten Commandments unedited. Rev 11:19

No, I only went as far as the discussion of Hebrews The rest Moses Spoke of, then Joshua and what David prophesied. That is what Hebrews is about.

Not really, it is about contrasting the disobedience of the Israelites Hebrews 4:6 who broke the Sabbath Eze 20:13, Eze 20:21 and telling us to not follow their same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11 and why the Sabbath keeping remains for God’s people. Hebrews 4:9 NIV In Christ there is no rebellion to Him including profaning His Sabbath commandment.

It is distinguishing between two rests. One as a foreshadow in Joshua,

The rest of Joshua was not referring to the Sabbath rest as shown in my previous post. The rest in that verse is entering into Christ rest, not the seventh day Sabbath commandment. These are not the same thing, in Christ rest one is obedient to Him

and that which David foretold in Christ.

David was referring to rebellion in the wilderness which is what Hebrews 4:7 is quoting

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

It's a quote from David...lets find the quote, its the same quote verbatim.

Hebrews 95:7 For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture,
And the sheep of His hand.
Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,

 

[ralliann]

The shadow of what? Where does it say that?

As in many such things are for earthly shadows and patterns and types.

This verse is showing us why the Israelites did not enter into their inheritance due to disobedience Hebrews 4:6 which is what we are warned not to follow the same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Who and what is this about. It is not focusing on their disobedience here but what was inherited.

These are your words, not what is in scripture. In scripture it says the Sabbath rest (commandment) remains for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9 NIV

We know the weekly Sabbath commandment has not changed because God said we could not edit it. Deut 4:2 and the earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple where lies the Ten Commandments unedited. Rev 11:19


Not really, it is about contrasting the disobedience of the Israelites Hebrews 4:6 who broke the Sabbath Eze 20:13, Eze 20:21 and telling us to not follow their same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11. In Christ there is no rebellion to Him including profaning His Sabbath commandment.

The rest of Joshua was not referring to the Sabbath rest as shown in my previous post. The rest in that verse is entering into Christ rest, not the seventh day Sabbath

Take note The Greek 2424 Has Hebrew origin 03091
2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous ee-ay-sooce’

of Hebrew origin 03091 יֵשׁוּעַ Jeshua, later form of <03091> יְהוֹשׁוּעַ; n pr m; TDNT-3:284,360; {See TDNT 326}

AV-Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975

*****It is used twice For Joshua, once for a Christian, and 972 for Christ.

See # 3 .
3) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses’ successor (#Ac 7:45, Heb 4:8)


The two times it is speaking of Joshua
Context determines these....

Act 7: 45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Clearly Hebrews recounting those who died in the wilderness is speaking in the context of the people coming into the rest of their inheritance under Joshua.

1) Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
2) Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate to release instead of Christ
3) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses’ successor (#Ac 7:45, Heb 4:8)
4) Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (#Lu 3:29)
5) Jesus, surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associate with Paul in the preaching of the gospel (#Col 4:11)
03091 יהושׁוע Yᵉhowshuwa‘ yeh-ho-shoo’-ah or יהושׁע Yᵉhowshu‘a yeh-ho-shoo’-ah

****AND THE HEBREW CONFIRMS AGREEMENT WITH GREEK 2424.

from 03068 and 03467, Greek 2424 Ιησους and 919 βαριησους; n pr m; [BDB-221b] {See TWOT on 484 @@ "484a"}

AV-Joshua 218; 218

Joshua or Jehoshua= "Jehovah is salvation"

1) son of Nun of the tribe of Ephraim and successor to Moses as the leader of the children of Israel; led the conquest of Canaan
2) a resident of Beth-shemesh on whose land the Ark of the Covenant came to a stop after the Philistines returned it
3) son of Jehozadak and high priest after the restoration
4) governor of Jerusalem under king Josiah who gave his name to a gate of the city of Jerusalem
commandment. These are not the same thing, in Christ rest one is obedient to Him

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As in many such things are for earthly shadows and patterns and types.

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Who and what is this about. It is not focusing on their disobedience here but what was inherited.


Take note The Greek 2424 Has Hebrew origin 03091
2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous ee-ay-sooce’

of Hebrew origin 03091 יֵשׁוּעַ Jeshua, later form of <03091> יְהוֹשׁוּעַ; n pr m; TDNT-3:284,360; {See TDNT 326}

AV-Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975

*****It is used twice For Joshua, once for a Christian, and 972 for Christ.

See # 3 .
3) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses’ successor (#Ac 7:45, Heb 4:8)


The two times it is speaking of Joshua
Context determines these....

Act 7: 45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

I feel like this has already been addressed Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day? and we do not seem to be coming to any agreement anytime soon, I will leave it as agree to disagree. Appreciate the conversation and wish you well.

 

[ralliann]

I feel like this has already been addressed Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day? and we do not seem to be coming to any agreement anytime soon, I will leave it as agree to disagree. Appreciate the conversation and wish you well.

No we cannot come to agreement. Because this issue, is not distinct in your theology. You take things from the Sinai covenant, and you apply to another covenant. You take things from the eternal covenant made with Abraham in Christ, make the Sinai covenant eternal, when it is the covenant of circumcision for the nation of Israel. The Jews not called in Christ, are still called in Isaac. The Sinai covenant does not abolish the promises. Thos called in Christ include the nations in the same inheritance apart from the fleshy command of circumcision.
Heb 9:15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
As long as this earth and this world exists which is an worldly earthly inheritance Israel will exist with the promises remaining, because their calling in Isaac is not disannulled.

So you mix it all up in the Sinai covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No we cannot come to agreement. Because this issue, is not distinct in your theology. You take things from the Sinai covenant, and you apply to another covenant. You take things from the eternal covenant made with Abraham in Christ, make the Sinai covenant eternal, when it is the covenant of circumcision for the nation of Israel. The Jews not called in Christ, are still called in Isaac. The Sinai covenant does not abolish the promises. Thos called in Christ include the nations in the same inheritance apart from the fleshy command of circumcision.
Heb 9:15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
As long as this earth and this world exists which is an worldly earthly inheritance Israel will exist with the promises remaining, because their calling in Isaac is not disannulled.

So you mix it all up in the Sinai covenant.

Like I said we will have to agree to disagree. Take care

 

[SuperCow]

and again you would be wrong. Your first response was that there were none and now you say there are...

That is because you referred one or two commands by God to a single person, and called them a set of laws. Should I refer to a command of "don't look back" as a set of Lottian laws? Or circumcision as a set of Abrahamic laws? If that's all Noah's descendants had as laws, it's no wonder that a bunch of them took it upon themselves to rebel at Babel.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So you mix it all up in the Sinai covenant.

Not really, but I will explain.

God has a set of eternal laws that is what defines sin. Sin is the theme throughout the entire bible of what we are to overcome and what Jesus came to save us from Matthew 1:21, not in.

This is how the bible defines sin...

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is breaking the law.

Scripture also says....

Romans 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

So if God did not have any laws, there would be no transgression (sin)

When did sin start?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The devil who is Lucifer sinned from the beginning, meaning he transgressed God's law. Which means God has a law that is in heaven from the very beginning.

Adam and Eve sinned which is what separated them from God, which means they broke God's law.

So what law is universal that has been from the beginning and is defined as what sin is when broken. Can you answer this question from scripture?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That is because you referred one or two commands by God to a single person, and called them a set of laws. Should I refer to a command of "don't look back" as a set of Lottian laws? Or circumcision as a set of Abrahamic laws? If that's all Noah's descendants had as laws, it's no wonder that a bunch of them took it upon themselves to rebel at Babel.

Do you know what a "law" is? If you did, you would not say such silly things...

 

[SuperCow]

Do you know what a "law" is? If you did, you would not say such silly things...

What are you even talking about? I think you missed the point entirely. And you calling me silly doesn't make you sound smarter. I guess I need to dispense with the hyperbole and answer directly.

A commandment is a law, not a set of laws.
Noahide laws are not from the Bible, they are from the Talmud.
The sabbath was not a command or a law for humans until the time of Moses. If it was observed by any human before that time, the Bible does not tell us so.

Noah could have been given hundreds of laws, but they aren't written in the Bible anywhere except for a couple of instances.

Everything else people are inferring from scriptural patterns that do not specifically reference the sabbath.

 

[ralliann]

That is because you referred one or two commands by God to a single person, and called them a set of laws. Should I refer to a command of "don't look back" as a set of Lottian laws? Or circumcision as a set of Abrahamic laws? If that's all Noah's descendants had as laws, it's no wonder that a bunch of them took it upon themselves to rebel at Babel.

I believe Abraham didn't keep the sabbath day.

Not really, but I will explain.

God has a set of eternal laws that is what defines sin. Sin is the theme throughout the entire bible of what we are to overcome and what Jesus came to save us from Matthew 1:21, not in.

This is how the bible defines sin...

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is breaking the law.

Scripture also says....

Romans 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

So if God did not have any laws, there would be no transgression (sin)

When did sin start?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The devil who is Lucifer sinned from the beginning, meaning he transgressed God's law. Which means God has a law that is in heaven from the very beginning.

Adam and Eve sinned which is what separated them from God, which means they broke God's law.

So what law is universal that has been from the beginning and is defined as what sin is when broken. Can you answer this question from scripture?

I am sorry. Here is just another post stating Moses law was given and binding before being given at Sinai.
I already addressed this in several posts in our back and forth, to show the Sabbath was for a sign of the Sinai covenant. The sign of the Abrahamic covenant is circumcision in the flesh. The sign of the new covenant is the resurrection.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am sorry. Here is just another post stating Moses law was given and binding before being given at Sinai.
I already addressed this in several posts in our back and forth, to show the Sabbath was for a sign of the Sinai covenant. The sign of the Abrahamic covenant is circumcision in the flesh. The sign of the new covenant is the resurrection.

My question isn’t about a sign of a covenant my question is simple. Jesus came to save us from sin, sin is the transgression of the law. What law is that and can you provide scripture.