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Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

Yeshua HaDerekh

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What are you even talking about? I think you missed the point entirely. And you calling me silly doesn't make you sound smarter. I guess I need to dispense with the hyperbole and answer directly.

A commandment is a law, not a set of laws.
Noahide laws are not from the Bible, they are from the Talmud.
The sabbath was not a command or a law for humans until the time of Moses. If it was observed by any human before that time, the Bible does not tell us so.

Noah could have been given hundreds of laws, but they aren't written in the Bible anywhere except for a couple of instances.

Everything else people are inferring from scriptural patterns that do not specifically reference the sabbath.
I said silly, not because it makes me sound smarter, which you have already made quite evident by your responses, it was because what you are saying IS silly. You have no idea what you are saying. First you said there were none. Then when I proved you wrong, you say there are some. Make up your mind lol! The Noahide laws were even quoted AGAIN in Acts! It seems you believe that it was all made up at Sinai...
 
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SuperCow

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I said silly, not because it makes me sound smarter, which you have already made quite evident by your responses, it was because what you are saying IS silly. You have no idea what you are saying. First you said there were none. Then when I proved you wrong, you say there are some. Make up your mind lol! The Noahide laws were even quoted AGAIN in Acts! It seems you believe that it was all made up at Sinai...
I still say there are none. The two commands in Genesis 9 don't comprise a law code. Noah is not even mentioned in the book of Acts. The blood prohibition is in Acts, but it is quoted as a law of Moses. So how many laws of Noah are written in the Bible? Not even the early patriarchs followed the law of Moses, because it didn't exist yet. (You can find several places where this is true, maybe dozens.)

And if you are using Acts as some kind of evidence, they even say in Acts 15 that gentiles shouldn't be bound by the law of Moses. (Basically anyone not descended from Jacob.)

So, to help me understand what is a Noahide law from scripture, please give me a list of the Noahide laws and the exact scripture that they are referenced in regard to Noah. Then maybe I can turn back from my silliness.
 
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ralliann

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My question isn’t about a sign of a covenant my question is simple.
But you ignore it when it was. Just push it aside.
Jesus came to save us from sin, sin is the transgression of the law.
Sin is lawlessness. Abraham had law and statutes. Moses law was 430 years later.
What law is that and can you provide scripture.
I already provided as have others scripture concerning Sabbath. This has basically been ignored and by passed. When God told Abraham of future Events of bringing the people out of Egypt, he said he would judge them. that judgement was not based upon a law that was not given yet. Not one nation that Israel had contact with was unrighteous for not keeping the Mosaic code. While Israel was not to do as those nations did, or they as well would be cast out of the land. In other words, law which existed prior to Moses law, was maintained in Moses law. Not the other way around.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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But you ignore it when it was. Just push it aside.
I asked my question first. I'll be happy to address your post after you answer a simple question.
Sin is lawlessness. Abraham had law and statutes. Moses law was 430 years later.
What law defines sin is my question.
I already provided as have others scripture concerning Sabbath. This has basically been ignored and by passed. When God told Abraham of future Events of bringing the people out of Egypt, he said he would judge them. that judgement was not based upon a law that was not given yet. Not one nation that Israel had contact with was unrighteous for not keeping the Mosaic code. While Israel was not to do as those nations did, or they as well would be cast out of the land. In other words, law which existed prior to Moses law, was maintained in Moses law. Not the other way around.
My question is easy, what laws define sin according to scripture. If Jesus came to save us from sin Matthew 1:21 shouldn't we know the law being referred to since sin is the transgression of the law. Please answer my question through scripture which law defines sin? We do not serve a God who condemns us for sin and what we will be judged by, yet doesn't define what that law is, so this should be fairly easy to come up with through scripture.
 
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ralliann

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The Sabbath was made for Adam, Adam was not made for the Sabbath.
That is right....
Why would Yeshua say that? Adam was made on the 6th day and the Sabbath on the 7th. So it was made for Adam...
Shabbat Shalom!
But for sin.....
Nope, he did not enter into the Sabbath rest.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is
the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
 
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ralliann

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I asked my question first. I'll be happy to address your post after you answer a simple question.
I already gave you my views on the Sabbath. I do not need anymore than that. When scripture clearly says the law was 430 years after Abraham, and that Abraham was not party to the Sinai covenant I do not need to answer questions that deny that.
What law defines sin is my question.
The law of Moses is sin for one nation, Israel. Because nobody other than the jews are judged by it. The law of faith was the law of Noah, Abraham etc.
My question is easy, what laws define sin according to scripture.
See the above....
If Jesus came to save us from sin Matthew 1:21 shouldn't we know the law being referred to since sin is the transgression of the law.
For Israel, the law of faith was not abolished when the sinai law was added.
Please answer my question through scripture which law defines sin? We do not serve a God who condemns us for sin and what we will be judged by, yet doesn't define what that law is, so this should be fairly easy to come up with through scripture.
What our differences are is this it appears.
Law from Moses was for the nation of Israel, it was law which was in addition to law prior. What that means is all those righteous by the law of faith, the law of Moses could in no way abolish.
The law of faith
Noah,,,, Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Your focus in in the earthly worldly Shadow, as though that covenant is the source of eternal inheritance, it is not. Abraham, offered Isaac because God was testing his faith.
What faith?
1. Abraham is dead in this promise..
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
2.Isaac and Jacob as well as his twelve sons are dead in this covenant.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Did, the twelve patriarchs know this?
Yes, they did
Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.

Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.
That is why Abraham was tested. He had to believe in life after death to come into the eternal inheritance of the promises made to himself, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as the nations unto whom God had made him a father to.
Righteousness by faith.
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Who were the fathers Abraham went to in peace?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I already gave you my views on the Sabbath. I do not need anymore than that. When scripture clearly says the law was 430 years after Abraham, and that Abraham was not party to the Sinai covenant I do not need to answer questions that deny that.

The law of Moses is sin for one nation, Israel. Because nobody other than the jews are judged by it. The law of faith was the law of Noah, Abraham etc.

See the above....

For Israel, the law of faith was not abolished when the sinai law was added.

What our differences are is this it appears.
Law from Moses was for the nation of Israel, it was law which was in addition to law prior. What that means is all those righteous by the law of faith, the law of Moses could in no way abolish.
The law of faith
Noah,,,, Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Your focus in in the earthly worldly Shadow, as though that covenant is the source of eternal inheritance, it is not. Abraham, offered Isaac because God was testing his faith.
What faith?
1. Abraham is dead in this promise..
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
2.Isaac and Jacob as well as his twelve sons are dead in this covenant.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Did, the twelve patriarchs know this?
Yes, they did
Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.

Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.
That is why Abraham was tested. He had to believe in life after death to come into the eternal inheritance of the promises made to himself, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as the nations unto whom God had made him a father to.
Righteousness by faith.
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Who were the fathers Abraham went to in peace?
So either you can't find the scripture that shows which law is what points out sin or you don't want to.

Righteousness has always been through faith, those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31 and when Jesus tells us what commandments to keep, He points to the Ten telling us to not break the least of these commandment Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19 because these are the commandments we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and what defines sin when broken Romans 7:7. Jesus came to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21 not in them and even gives us His Spirit to help us obey His commandments John 14:15-18 and those who walk in His Spirit are not an enmity against the law of God. Romans 8:4-8
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I still say there are none. The two commands in Genesis 9 don't comprise a law code. Noah is not even mentioned in the book of Acts. The blood prohibition is in Acts, but it is quoted as a law of Moses. So how many laws of Noah are written in the Bible? Not even the early patriarchs followed the law of Moses, because it didn't exist yet. (You can find several places where this is true, maybe dozens.)

And if you are using Acts as some kind of evidence, they even say in Acts 15 that gentiles shouldn't be bound by the law of Moses. (Basically anyone not descended from Jacob.)

So, to help me understand what is a Noahide law from scripture, please give me a list of the Noahide laws and the exact scripture that they are referenced in regard to Noah. Then maybe I can turn back from my silliness.
So you said there were none, then you say there are some and now you go back to none lol! Well no that is not what it says in Acts. These laws were for the ger toshav, minimal adherence at the beginning. You say that because you do not understand Judaism or early Christianity. I am getting tired of having to constantly explain these simple things to you. You say "The blood prohibition is in Acts, but it is quoted as a law of Moses"...then you say "And if you are using Acts as some kind of evidence, they even say in Acts 15 that gentiles shouldn't be bound by the law of Moses." Well WHICH IS IT? Make up your mind lol!!
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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That is right....

But for sin.....
Nope, he did not enter into the Sabbath rest.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is
the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
none of that is within the context of our discussion. What is your point?
 
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ralliann

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none of that is within the context of our discussion. What is your point?
Yes, it is.
Noah Comfort from the cursed ground.....
Gen 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
Noah = rest
05146 נח Noach no’-akh

the same as 05118, Greek 3575 Νωε; n pr m; [BDB-629a] {See TWOT on 1323 @@ "1323b"}

AV-Noah 46; 46

Is 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Num 25:11 Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12 Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
 
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SuperCow

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So you said there were none, then you say there are some and now you go back to none lol! Well no that is not what it says in Acts. These laws were for the ger toshav, minimal adherence at the beginning. You say that because you do not understand Judaism or early Christianity. I am getting tired of having to constantly explain these simple things to you. You say "The blood prohibition is in Acts, but it is quoted as a law of Moses"...then you say "And if you are using Acts as some kind of evidence, they even say in Acts 15 that gentiles shouldn't be bound by the law of Moses." Well WHICH IS IT? Make up your mind lol!!
You're trying to twist what I'm saying, but it's very simple. God gave Noah a command. He also gave the consequences of murder. One law does not a law code make, and there's no contradiction to that position. There is nothing else attributable to Noah specifically in the Bible, so if you don't understand my comments maybe I can't help you.

And I don't understand what you mean when you say make up your mind? It's pretty clear that there is a Mosaic law, and that all of its complexity is not for the gentiles. Just because the two things commanded to Noah are reiterated in the law code, does not mean that the hundreds of other parts of the law code were applicable to Noah. They clearly weren't as some things weren't followed by the early patriarchs and there were no consequences. Also, murder being bad doesn't originate with Noah, it goes all the way back to Cain.

And you have never actually listed what the so-called Noahide laws are and where they are in the Bible, so I can only assume that there aren't any. They certainly aren't in Acts, so I'm not sure why that is evidence.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yes, it is.
Noah Comfort from the cursed ground.....
Gen 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
Noah = rest
05146 נח Noach no’-akh

the same as 05118, Greek 3575 Νωε; n pr m; [BDB-629a] {See TWOT on 1323 @@ "1323b"}

AV-Noah 46; 46

Is 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Num 25:11 Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12 Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
You are just quoting verses...WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You're trying to twist what I'm saying, but it's very simple. God gave Noah a command. He also gave the consequences of murder. One law does not a law code make, and there's no contradiction to that position. There is nothing else attributable to Noah specifically in the Bible, so if you don't understand my comments maybe I can't help you.

And I don't understand what you mean when you say make up your mind? It's pretty clear that there is a Mosaic law, and that all of its complexity is not for the gentiles. Just because the two things commanded to Noah are reiterated in the law code, does not mean that the hundreds of other parts of the law code were applicable to Noah. They clearly weren't as some things weren't followed by the early patriarchs and there were no consequences. Also, murder being bad doesn't originate with Noah, it goes all the way back to Cain.

And you have never actually listed what the so-called Noahide laws are and where they are in the Bible, so I can only assume that there aren't any. They certainly aren't in Acts, so I'm not sure why that is evidence.
No I am not twisting anything! ANYONE can go back and read what you have written. Was there Adamic law and covenent? Was there Abrahamic law and covenant? Was there Noahide law and covenant, was there Mosaic law and covenant... Well???????????? You are just plain wrong and worse, you do not understand what law is. It is VERY easy to see the Noahide laws and the same in Acts. Just do a google search...oy vey
 
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SuperCow

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No I am not twisting anything! ANYONE can go back and read what you have written. Was there Adamic law and covenent? Was there Abrahamic law and covenant? Was there Noahide law and covenant, was there Mosaic law and covenant... Well???????????? You are just plain wrong and worse, you do not understand what law is. It is VERY easy to see the Noahide laws and the same in Acts. Just do a google search...oy vey
Okay, let's go with the google search, because the sites all contradict you.

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia : "According to the Talmud, the seven laws were given first to Adam and subsequently to Noah.

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...ish/The-7-Noahide-Laws-Universal-Morality.htm : "Jewish tradition tells that six of these laws were given to the first human being, Adam. A seventh law, the prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal, was given to Noahwhen humankind was permitted to consume meat."

The Noahide Laws | My Jewish Learning : "the Talmud reports the following:..[details of the 7 laws]"

The Seven Noachide Laws : "Even though the Talmud and Maimonides stipulate that a non-Jew who violated the Noachide laws was liable to capital punishment

I could quote dozens more, but you see the pattern. The Noachide/Noahide laws are NOT in the Bible, they are part of Jewish tradition and quoted in the Talmud and likely several Midrash sources. (I can't even find them in the apocryphal books)

That is why you refuse to quote sources from the Bible, because either you know they aren't there, assume they are there but are too lazy to look them up, or you don't care and assume I am not worthy of your information.
 
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ralliann

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Okay, let's go with the google search, because the sites all contradict you.

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia : "According to the Talmud, the seven laws were given first to Adam and subsequently to Noah.

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...ish/The-7-Noahide-Laws-Universal-Morality.htm : "Jewish tradition tells that six of these laws were given to the first human being, Adam. A seventh law, the prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal, was given to Noahwhen humankind was permitted to consume meat."

The Noahide Laws | My Jewish Learning : "the Talmud reports the following:..[details of the 7 laws]"

The Seven Noachide Laws : "Even though the Talmud and Maimonides stipulate that a non-Jew who violated the Noachide laws was liable to capital punishment

I could quote dozens more, but you see the pattern. The Noachide/Noahide laws are NOT in the Bible, they are part of Jewish tradition and quoted in the Talmud and likely several Midrash sources. (I can't even find them in the apocryphal books)

That is why you refuse to quote sources from the Bible, because either you know they aren't there, assume they are there but are too lazy to look them up, or you don't care and assume I am not worthy of your information.
There are these to consider.
Looking up some terms here.....
2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
offense (stumbling) and blame ( fault, or mock)

Paul was wanted to go before Caeser due to accusations of Jew's accusations being made against him of violating law.....

1.against the Jew's 2. against the temple, 3. against Caesar. To which they could not prove, Paul offended none of these.

Acts 25:7 And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove.
8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.

Rome legalized various religions in the Empire. Each one having strict law concerning. Judaism was no different. Even granting the Jew's, an exemption peculiar to them among the religions. No idol's.
As we see clearly here with the godess Diana.
Acts 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

His disciples got him out of there.....
28 And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
29 And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul’s companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.
30 And when Paul would have entered in unto the people, the disciples suffered him not.

So, Gentiles being taught in every synagogues since ancient times (King Cyrus decree, King Artaxerxes, king Darius etc)

Ez 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
14 Forasmuch as thou art sent of the king, and of his seven counsellors, to enquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thine hand;
15 And to carry the silver and gold, which the king and his counsellors have freely offered unto the God of Israel, whose habitation is in Jerusalem,

Decree to the kings treasurers (Gentile subjects) King is paying for it all......

21 And I, even I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily,

21 And I, even I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily,

And here it is
In every synagogue since that time.

25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that is in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye them that know them not.
26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.

But this is our righteousness BEFORE MEN.
As the law says
De 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

Which righteousness was not the righteousness wherby the promise of inheritance comes.

De 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
De 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.

That the ministry be not blamed......
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Okay, let's go with the google search, because the sites all contradict you.

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia : "According to the Talmud, the seven laws were given first to Adam and subsequently to Noah.

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...ish/The-7-Noahide-Laws-Universal-Morality.htm : "Jewish tradition tells that six of these laws were given to the first human being, Adam. A seventh law, the prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal, was given to Noahwhen humankind was permitted to consume meat."

The Noahide Laws | My Jewish Learning : "the Talmud reports the following:..[details of the 7 laws]"

The Seven Noachide Laws : "Even though the Talmud and Maimonides stipulate that a non-Jew who violated the Noachide laws was liable to capital punishment

I could quote dozens more, but you see the pattern. The Noachide/Noahide laws are NOT in the Bible, they are part of Jewish tradition and quoted in the Talmud and likely several Midrash sources. (I can't even find them in the apocryphal books)

That is why you refuse to quote sources from the Bible, because either you know they aren't there, assume they are there but are too lazy to look them up, or you don't care and assume I am not worthy of your information.
Yes you quoted from Jewish Tradition. However it is quiteevident you do NOT understand what a law is. You never answered my questions to you in my last post. I can EASILY quote them from the OT AND Acts and you can too. It looks like YOU are the lazy one, not I.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Law before Moses.
The law of faith.
Again, that does not negate anything I said nor does that negate that there were laws before Sinai, otherwise you think they were ALL just made up at Sinai and we both know that is NOT the case...
 
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SuperCow

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Yes you quoted from Jewish Tradition. However it is quiteevident you do NOT understand what a law is. You never answered my questions to you in my last post. I can EASILY quote them from the OT AND Acts and you can too. It looks like YOU are the lazy one, not I.
I answered quite plainly. All three of those people had covenants. Adam broke his. The other two did not. How is that relevant? You should learn from @ralliann. I don't know what his point is, but at least he can quote a scripture to support it.
 
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