Did a traumatic experience make you unchurched?

[2+2=5]

I had a pastor tell me and about 10 other people to lay down on the floor of the rec hall and he turned out all the lights and played that song "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" really loud and told us to just listen to the music and not to anything else going on in the room. It was pitch dark, so you couldn't see anything and the pastor kept walking around in the dark, kneeling next to everyone. I don't know that he was doing to them, but the whole thing was really strange to me and I couldn't imagine what it had to do with the Bible or Jesus. It gave me the creeps, along with his constant asking for a hug from everyone. I quit going there soon after the "song" incident and now when-ever I hear that song...I get a creepy feeling.

My lands!

 

[heron]

It sounds like he was trying to relive the 70's...get back some of the spirituality he saw then. But it was invading territory then, it's invading territory now.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

It's when they ask you to lie on a stone table and play "spice up yer life" you wanna get outta that Satanic Girl-band Church!!!!

And don't even enter the Barbie-the-Barbarian Temple!!!!!

 

[M Paul]

I couldn't imagine what it had to do with the Bible or Jesus.

It doesn't have anything to do with Jesus. It's a song about heroin. "Sail along silver girl, sail on by, your time has come to shine..." A silver girl is (was) ghetto slang for a heroin hyperdermic needle, and the heroin sails through it into the veins. So the bridge over troubled water is heroin.

Regards,

Paul

 

[breezynosacek]

Hmm, have been enjoying the honesty here. Traumatic experience? More than one, two or three. It seems that organized religion has been out to get me for years.

Ritual Abuse had a lot to do with it. Then being called a liar when I tried to extract my sister from the abuse. That all happened when I was in my early teens. I turned my back on all of it.

Then, when I became a Christian, I thought, well going to Church is what a Christian is supposed to do. Right?

The apostasy kept showing up! Except two churches which I loved, both pastors left.

So, after getting worn out looking for a Church, God put me out in the pasture. And there, I end up ministering to those who have been abused by the Church, or who have had to leave their church because of the apostate teachings that infiltrated their once sound churches.

Hubby and I were even under a spiritual covering for our ministry and it went south too!

So, Church is when two or more are gathered together in Jesus' name and since we gather together often, we don't feel that we lack very often.

My hubby and I just don't trust the leaders today. We only trust in Jesus. Period. I think it will remain that way until He returns and we don't think that will be too long the way things are going.

I sort of feel like flandidlyanders, I'm throwing bricks at wolves, finding the stragglers and trying to help them get armed with the Word.

You'll think this is a bit funny. Every once in a while, I get that "I should be in a Church" feeling. It goes back to brainwashing I guess.

Well a couple of months ago, we were at a Walmart and this old fella pops up and starts talking about the apostasy and the end times! Without any encouragement, LOL!

I listen and he goes on to tell me that he is a retired minister. He was called back into ministry by the Lord. His ministry is....get this....to go into the Churches that are teaching false doctrines and ministering the Truth to the individual sheep. Letting them know that what is being taught is not the Word but is man's doctrines and doctrines of demons. (little god's, WOF, ect)

I'm reckoning that it is time to 'come out of her'. I've seen more and more churches taken over by false teachers and met more and more believers who know their churches turned false but don't know what to do now.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Breeze: Good points really. There seems such a number of people from everywhere recounting similar experiences. With such numbers I wonder if we could not do a little reform within the system, am I just naive? In my original "baptist (Southern Baptist)" church, there were only 3-4 youths who would entertain the idea of submitting a new notion. But I have found that within the politics of the church USUALLY only a small portion of members run the place and the rest of the congregation does not know/care about the behind the scene deals, pet projects or money. With the power of EMAIL, Chats cell phones today, could some of this stuff not be brought into the light a little?

I loved some of the things about church, it was just the few, the proud and ego seekers that made it tuff. Can we not forgive them and attempt change from within in addition to meetings in homes, etc.

 

[M Paul]

I loved some of the things about church, it was just the few, the proud and ego seekers that made it tuff. Can we not forgive them and attempt change from within in addition to meetings in homes, etc.

Not necessarily so simple. Some denominations are not only very resistent to change, they have unseen built in mechanisms for dealing with it, and the reason they're unseen is because they are dishonest--("Oh who?? Us?? Get behind me Satan?? If it's us doing it, it's from God. Someone cast the demons out of him!!!") One can forgive them, but one might then just have to leave them alone. If one wants change, that first requires a lot of prayer, and I do mean a lot. Then, there will be encounters and exchanges, and unless the Holy Spirit is a part of it, well, it ain't pretty, and even with the Holy Spirit there, his role might be to shield off the darts. Hmm--all a very long discussion. However, we should seek change, but only with the exercising of great wisdom, and letting the Holy Spirit show us how it is done.

Regards,

Paul

 

[heron]

I wonder if some of the untouchable mindset comes from seminary...although I've known of many independent pastors who had no seminary training.

Maybe they're treating this as running a business: how to motivate people, how to cut out those who waste time, pinpointing troublemakers who speak negative of the organization, targeting natural-born leaders to instigate things for others, etc. They have to consider a whole other set of principles; what is truly effectual for the kingdom gets to the heart of the lowliest member and their personal needs.

The assumption that members don't want to get involved in the mechanics is often promoted by leadership but not actually true; it's simpler for them to make decisions with less input, so they often ignore members' pleas to get more involved. (I'm using several churches as examples.)

A twenty-year old once told me how discouraged her brother was when he graduated from seminary and took on an established church. The members resisted every plan and program he wanted to implement. She was appalled at their disrespect and stubbornnes. I was appalled by his insensitivity and disrespect. In my mind, the church was the people. In the pastor's mind, the church was his craft project.














"So, Church is when two or more are gathered together in Jesus' name and since we gather together often, we don't feel that we lack very often."

 

[heron]

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

-Edward Abbey



I am glad to see that a system of labor prevails under which laborers can strike when they want to...I like the system which lets a man quit when he wants to and wish it might prevail everywhere.

-Abraham Lincoln



The protection of a man's person is more sacred than the protection of property.

-Tom Paine, The Rights of Man, 1792



It is my contention that civil disobedients are nothing but the latest form of voluntary association, and that they are thus quite in tune with the oldest traditions of the country.

-Hannah Arendt, Crises of the Republic, Civil Disobedience 1972



Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Richard Price, January 8, 1789

 

[If Not For Grace]

I could not agree w/you more, many are run like businesses:

and with regard to change:

there will be encounters and exchanges, and unless the Holy Spirit is a part of it, well, it ain't pretty, and even with the Holy Spirit there,

I KNOW ROM EXPERIENCE this is fact. However, Many of us attend church and just never say a word about the injustices etc that go own in our midst. We are like Joseph of Ar. meeting in darkness, do-gooders who do not want to rock the establishment. (I am one of them). So I advocate, being in "good standing" and not letting the FEW run the rest of us out.

Is it not time for us to take a MLK passive resistance stand against such?
I ask those of you who have experienced this to pray about this matter.

PS I believe prayer changes things.

 

[discernomatic]

I had a pastor tell me and about 10 other people to lay down on the floor of the rec hall and he turned out all the lights and played that song "Bridge Over Troubled Waters"......

That does sound spooky! Sometimes ´particular words or music can trigger memories and feelings. That sort of thing is hard to get rid of. Hope you have peace, Chrystal-J.

 

[discernomatic]

So, after getting worn out looking for a Church, God put me out in the pasture. And there, I end up ministering to those who have been abused by the Church, or who have had to leave their church because of the apostate teachings that infiltrated their once sound churches....

Well a couple of months ago, we were at a Walmart and this old fella pops up and starts talking about the apostasy and the end times! Without any encouragement, LOL!

I listen and he goes on to tell me that he is a retired minister. He was called back into ministry by the Lord. His ministry is....get this....to go into the Churches that are teaching false doctrines and ministering the Truth to the individual sheep. Letting them know that what is being taught is not the Word but is man's doctrines and doctrines of demons. (little god's, WOF, ect)

I'm reckoning that it is time to 'come out of her'. I've seen more and more churches taken over by false teachers and met more and more believers who know their churches turned false but don't know what to do now.

Ha! Ha! I know where you're coming from. I ended up doing that too, both comforting others that have been hurt and telling of false doctrine. You know, I have even gone into churches and told individuals to question what they hear like that guy does. It has the result that one is not well liked by pastors and leaders. They expect one to join and submit (especially if one is a woman) or stay away. Sigh. God's opinion is more important to me than man's opinion is.

 

[Chrystal-J]

Thanks discernomatic.
I'm fine with everything now...just a lot more leery of people who *claim* to be Christian (or Christian leaders) and are not. I guess you can only truly trust the Word. I would like to be able to trust in men, but have had too many odd experiences to do that right now. Maybe someday...

 

[M Paul]

I wonder if some of the untouchable mindset comes from seminary...although I've known of many independent pastors who had no seminary training. "

Absolutely!!! The real reason to go to seminary is to learn how the games get established and how they actually operate. Then, if one is not suckered into it, he/she can really know what will be involved in trying to make a change. However, without that seminary experience, I don't think a person can truly understand the schemes that go on in the church.

Regards,

Paul

 

[M Paul]

I could not agree w/you more, many are run like businesses:

and with regard to change:



I KNOW ROM EXPERIENCE this is fact. However, Many of us attend church and just never say a word about the injustices etc that go own in our midst. We are like Joseph of Ar. meeting in darkness, do-gooders who do not want to rock the establishment. (I am one of them). So I advocate, being in "good standing" and not letting the FEW run the rest of us out.

Is it not time for us to take a MLK passive resistance stand against such?
I ask those of you who have experienced this to pray about this matter.

PS I believe prayer changes things.

I think as long as one is praying first, he/she can take baby steps for change, and as more experience comes, more steps can be taken, until a whole plan is set out. The important thing is not to move on one's own wisdom. There has to be confirmation from the Spirit first. It takes time, and then it happens.

Regards,

Paul

 

[heron]

Paul, did you do seminary? I've had a couple friends who changed their mindsets during that time, gaining appreciation of tradition. I'm all for seminary training, since it involves Greek and Hebrew and comparative theology and public speaking practice and knowing resources. But there might be something missing, or a little too much ivory tower talk and peer "rightness" competition.

 

[breezynosacek]

Absolutely!!! The real reason to go to seminary is to learn how the games get established and how they actually operate. Then, if one is not suckered into it, he/she can really know what will be involved in trying to make a change. However, without that seminary experience, I don't think a person can truly understand the schemes that go on in the church.

Regards,

Paul

I've been somewhat on the inside of things. My stepfather went to Tennessee Temple Bible School in Chattanooga TN. They have a huge campus there. Seminary, Bible College, High School on down. They also have a huge Church and several Chapels right in the middle.

Seeing as how they train so many missionaries, when they come in on furlow, it is a sight to behold.

Anyway, what I want to relate to you is something that shocked me.

We are sitting in a huge Church with a huge balcony. The missionary gives the message that night and he gives a call for those that want to rededicate their lives to the Lord and about 1/4 to 1/3 come forward. I would like to remind you that these are students and their families.

Then the missionary gives an alter call for any one who would like to accept Christ as their Savior. By the time all of them got out of their pews, I would say that there were only about 15 or 20 of us who had not gone forward.

That should tell us something. These people had gone to Seminary and hadn't even accepted Christ yet!

When I had visited Benny Hinns church in FL, I was amazed when he introduced several hundred pastors that had left their pulpits to come sit under Benny's teachings. This went on for weeks or months, I'm not sure but I couldn't understand why anybody that had been called by God would leave their pulpits and sit under a false teacher. That was also about the time that I realized that he was teaching things that were twisted.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Hmm, have been enjoying the honesty here. Traumatic experience? More than one, two or three. It seems that organized religion has been out to get me for years.

It is out to get you .

Ritual Abuse had a lot to do with it. Then being called a liar when I tried to extract my sister from the abuse. That all happened when I was in my early teens. I turned my back on all of it.

Then, when I became a Christian, I thought, well going to Church is what a Christian is supposed to do. Right?

The apostasy kept showing up! Except two churches which I loved, both pastors left.

So, after getting worn out looking for a Church, God put me out in the pasture. And there, I end up ministering to those who have been abused by the Church, or who have had to leave their church because of the apostate teachings that infiltrated their once sound churches.

Hubby and I were even under a spiritual covering for our ministry and it went south too!

So, Church is when two or more are gathered together in Jesus' name and since we gather together often, we don't feel that we lack very often.

My hubby and I just don't trust the leaders today. We only trust in Jesus. Period. I think it will remain that way until He returns and we don't think that will be too long the way things are going.

I sort of feel like flandidlyanders, I'm throwing bricks at wolves, finding the stragglers and trying to help them get armed with the Word.

You'll think this is a bit funny. Every once in a while, I get that "I should be in a Church" feeling. It goes back to brainwashing I guess.

Well a couple of months ago, we were at a Walmart and this old fella pops up and starts talking about the apostasy and the end times! Without any encouragement, LOL!

I listen and he goes on to tell me that he is a retired minister. He was called back into ministry by the Lord. His ministry is....get this....to go into the Churches that are teaching false doctrines and ministering the Truth to the individual sheep. Letting them know that what is being taught is not the Word but is man's doctrines and doctrines of demons. (little god's, WOF, ect)

I'm reckoning that it is time to 'come out of her'. I've seen more and more churches taken over by false teachers and met more and more believers who know their churches turned false but don't know what to do now.

Yep . Many people are starting to realize this .

 

[heron]

"P.S. I believe prayer changes things."

Yes, God knows what's in others' hearts, and what kind of heat you'll take with whom. And I have watched Him change hearts when I was concerned about a person's stance and actions. Check with the Navigator before you take the back roads.

 

[M Paul]

Paul, did you do seminary? I've had a couple friends who changed their mindsets during that time, gaining appreciation of tradition. I'm all for seminary training, since it involves Greek and Hebrew and comparative theology and public speaking practice and knowing resources. But there might be something missing, or a little too much ivory tower talk and peer "rightness" competition.

Yes, I did seminary. However, I don't talk about it. I don't see how it would accomplish anything positive. I keep it to myself. I might talk about it privately some time, but that has never been necessary. However, I would say you are right to be suspicious.

Regards,

Paul