Did a traumatic experience make you unchurched?

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I recently had a traumatic experience that kept me out of a church when I thought I finally had "come home" after many years of being away from them. Have you had one? If it is not fit to print here because of the restrictions you may send it to me via my website. Just click on my profile and then the site link. I will definitely handle it discreetly. If you want it posted on my site anonymously, I will consider posting it. I have some links to organizations that help in such matters but am looking for more. If you can help me in that way (you will be helping others as well), please send me a mail.

Yes.

I can't talk about it anymore. I find that talking it to death just makes the pain of it stay fresh and the anger and frustration renew.

But, I don't trust church anymore. It's like child abuse, or sexual abuse. You never get back what was taken from you. Even if you forgive and move on. Traumatic events leave scars.

 

[Godzchild]

Most people are put off by institutionalised Christianity, and those within the institution think this makes them ever righter!!!!!?

I would class this as 'cult-like'

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I think it becomes cult-like when the church leadership thinks they're God. And it is they who should be worshipped and obeyed. And they start punishing those who do not agree.

 

[janny108]

Hmm I wonder; was anyone here ever part of the Way International or another cultlike group? Could be anything...cause I can understand why church would be a turn off for you esp in one that tended to be controlling.



Jan

 

[M Paul]

It seems that as the emergent church becomes more and more popular, those who still support the congregational church are trying to find rationalized explanations for the movement, rather than to deal with how its members base it on Scripture. Thus, the congregationalists say that EC'ers want to protest, that they've had a bad experience, and thus, they reject the congregational churches. That type of argument will be used to try to stay the movement, but as it is merely a method to circumvent the real issues the EC presents, it will fail.

The EC holds that the biblical model of the church is the cell unit--a house church/whole church organization. And, they hold that the popular congregational church is based on human tradition. The issue is--which model is truly represented in Scripture??? Nothing more has to be considered, and actually shouldn't be.

However, as the EC holds that because the congregational church is based on human tradition rather than the Bible, it has a tendency toward abuse, irrelevance, and diverting focus away from Christianity's real issues in daily life. The frustration of past experiences with the congregational church, due to its upholding tradition over Scripture, is often on the minds of the EC'ers in discussing the movement with Christians in general, and in itself seems to confirm the truth of thier biblical view. Neverthesless, the real issue is--what model of church structure is upheld in Scripture?? Rationalizing excuses to avoid real debate on this issue isn't going to stop the movement.

Regards,

Paul

 

[janny108]

Hmm I wonder; was anyone here ever part of the Way International or another cultlike group? Could be anything...cause I can understand why church would be a turn off for you esp in one that tended to be controlling.



Jan

Seriously anyone who has had cult experience can pm me as I've had it too.
Jan

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Emergent Church...

www.enginecreations.com/unseenchurch

 

[discernomatic]

I can't talk about it anymore. I find that talking it to death just makes the pain of it stay fresh and the anger and frustration renew.

But, I don't trust church anymore. It's like child abuse, or sexual abuse. You never get back what was taken from you. Even if you forgive and move on. Traumatic events leave scars.

Hi Laurenda,

Sorry I didn't get to you sooner. I was on vacation and did not have access to a computer.

There is something in what you say. I used writing to get over most of my frustration. A lot of bible study and prayer was necessary too.

I have scars too, but am just getting back to exploring other churches (with caution). I have learned not to expect too much from other Christians. Sometimes I think we get hurt because we open ourselves too much, trust too much. Other Christians are human too and fallible. Ideally we should be able to trust other Christians with our hearts, but sadly this does not always meet reality. In the future I will be much more cautious when beginning Christian relationships. I think that it is better to have a few solid, dependable friends rather than many shallow ones. Don't forget that there is a Friend that sticks closer than a brother.

Whatever you do, don't give up on Jesus Christ. Let what happened to you spur you on to an even stronger faith. Church does not have to be with a highly organized group of people including property and church building. Church can be just you and one or two other Christians studying Scripture, praying and breaking bread together. Often I find that far more edifying than a church service, and you are more able to talk about your problems and help others with theirs.

discernomatic

 

[discernomatic]

However, as the EC holds that because the congregational church is based on human tradition rather than the Bible, it has a tendency toward abuse, irrelevance, and diverting focus away from Christianity's real issues in daily life. The frustration of past experiences with the congregational church, due to its upholding tradition over Scripture, is often on the minds of the EC'ers in discussing the movement with Christians in general....Rationalizing excuses to avoid real debate on this issue isn't going to stop the movement.

Hi M Paul,

Just got back from vacation and saw your post.

I don't think that janny108 was referring necessarily to the Emerging Church Movement or to the congregational type church. I know of people that have been psychologically injured in both kinds. Both conservative and liberal churches are not immune to spiritual abuse, no matter how bible-toting or holistic they may be.

I think that most people don't busy themselves with terms like EC. Maybe you should specify with names like Brian McLaren or Rick Warren or terms like paradigm shift. These still may not mean much to those posting in this thread.
One reason for the thread was to see if others were unchurched because of a church incident, like myself. Also, I set it up more for those that feel they need an outlet, or so that they can find others in like situations and perhaps be able to comfort each other. I needed comfort myself as I started the thread.

discernomatic

 

[discernomatic]

Emergent Church...

Cool graphics, artist!

You guys seem to have a really off-the-wall, er, no-walls church. Is it really part of the Emergent Church Movement or were you just joking?

I'd prefer if you'd PM me to answer. Or start a new thread and give me the link. The theme doesn't really belong here.

discernomatic

 

[M Paul]

Hi M Paul,
I think that most people don't busy themselves with terms like EC.
discernomatic

Well, I had just the other day started a thread on the terms. For the home churchers, I think these are the most common--Emergent Church, Emerging Church, Home Church, House Church, Non-Institutional Church, New Testament Church, Cell Church. However, there are others, such as my thread explored with Unseen Church and Hidden Church, which I just added to my web site. I noted in that thread, that people against the home church movement are at times playing games with the terms in order to set up strawman arguments to oppose it, and that creates some confusion. However, I also noted the vocabulary is still in development due to the relative newness of the movement. However, home churching definitely is a world-wide movement and it needs a common term of reference. Emerging/Emergent Church seems to be winning out. Therefore, lately my tendency to refer to home churching is to use Emergent Church, or EC for short, but from my web site, you can see I prefer the term Non-Insitituional Church, and that's for historical and connotative reasons. Some people are attributing different meanings to the various terms, but these have not reached any type of level of general acceptance, at least not from the literature I've read, and if real degrees of differences are established, it's going to be quite some time, but I think actually that will not happen. So--I hope with this post that I explained my communication dilemma.

Regards,

M Paul

 

[discernomatic]

Hi M Paul,

Maybe your thread would be a better place to continue. I'll find it and meet you there.

discernomatic

 

[heron]

Discernomatic,
thanks for what you're doing here, and for keeping the thread active. I've run across several people recently who'd had traumatic experiences, but were confronted by comfortable Christians with the same old obligations and arguments...grinding it in.

I'd just like to keep this comment below active, for everyone defending the concept of submitting to leadership. This does happen. To shun people with these stories is yet another abuse.

I received the most rude, unchristian response I have ever heard from a pastor. He begins to tell me that I have offended him, that I don't know scripture and that I'm full of myself. How dare I offer any type of criticism or evaluation of his church, I'm not a consulatant and I do not know scripture of their church. He accused me of being a church hopper. He tells me I need a mentor to get in my face and bring me down a notch, I should be listening and not advising anyone and basically that I'm a big piece of dirt that he wishes he had never met me. He said it is people like me that frustrate the leadership of a church after pastoring a person who then leaves their church. Almost as if, you had better attend his church for life if he is going to waste his time with you.

Newday, that Government of 12 sounds scary! I would guess, though, that it was invented by some grad student or pastor to be an idealistic model...not considering what an unrealistic game it was. I've come across similar rules, where churches try to impose higher levels of committment at the cost of family life and healthy autonomy.

Rosebud, happy birthday! Do a search on "tithe" in the OT...it had more to do with community welfare than we would ever imagine. There were loads of specified tithes and offerings, some of which were shared with the priests' families, some with the poor, and some with each other.

My story, I seem to collect abusive churches. My first was connected to something that was later called a cult. Actually, my very first church had agnostic pastors who reprimanded those who tried to introduce Jesus to the youth.

I have found that when I gravitate toward interesting churches, ones that make me feel alive, I also subject myself to the accompanying volatility. It's like caffeine and salt: they are stimulants because they beat on your body. But I still use them.

What has surprised me over the years, has been the inner voice of God's response when I pray over these issues. He defends the oppressed. When all around you see people rave of God working in the churches, you never hear them speak of the quiet voice in the wind, the indwelt Spirit that guides each person. The last time I prayed about leaving a church with problems, God responded, "You could have left long ago!"


For all of you, I have some words from God (not our imaginations):

"I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one," and,
"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not my people,'
they will be called 'sons of the living God.' "

Romans 9:24-26; Hosea 1:10; 2:23.​

 

[discernomatic]

Discernomatic,
thanks for what you're doing here, and for keeping the thread active. I've run across several people recently who'd had traumatic experiences, but were confronted by comfortable Christians with the same old obligations and arguments...grinding it in.

Thanks for the compliment. I think that if we are to be Christlike, love for others must be at the top of our list. Jesus was always direct, but he never kicked anyone who was down, rather he offered his hand.

I'd just like to keep this comment below active, for everyone defending the concept of submitting to leadership. This does happen. To shun people with these stories is yet another abuse.

That comment could have happened to me too (have posted what happened to me on my website - without names). The same person or someone similar sent me a lot of nasty letters to my CF mailbox too. I cannot publish them because of the rules here. I think that everything that happens to us can be used by God. "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28. In my case it has turned me outward to help or at least console those that have been in a similar situation. I can't just watch others suffer and do nothing.

If I may ask, did the "comment" happen to you or to someone you know?

 

[heron]

If I may ask, did the "comment" happen to you or to someone you know?

Not those exact words! But it started when I was young, where someone told me, "What right do you think you have that you could hear God's will for your life yourself?" That was after several years of discerning God's voice.

I have watched this happen to others in church after church. Finally, we attended a church where God was hinting to us, "You have been through this and know what to watch out for." We saw the signs of volatility and risk, and felt that God was giving us an open hand to warn leaders of certain details. We were not divisive, and supported leadership in all our comments, but were more blunt in our letters than they were ready for.

I'd never heard that from God before--only messages from leadership that the people needed to submit. But it felt like a step of maturity, to risk my reputation for the sake of protecting others. It ended up being sacrificial, but not very painful, as I hadn't invested my emotions as deeply as others there.

As you said, a lot of people (hundreds) needed comfort and protection afterward. Many horrible and crushing statements were made to the congregation. People here who try to push abuse converstations aside as rebellion or whining have no idea how God's people have been trampled. What you went through is not only emotionally damaging, but it shakes your faith and your trust in people...in churches...in theology...sometimes in God.

I don't see the sense in bringing people into the church when they are so ready to drive them away with cruelty.

God does protect His people. He is the great shepherd.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Spiritual Abuse

I have never really thought about it, but I like the term. Many so-called churches are guilty of this. I have experienced it on several levels.



BUT we have to remember the devil comes to church too. He is also in the world not just of it. IMHO we should not just withdraw from organized churches, politics or our communities and live among ourselves-sounds like hippieism to me.

I am in the process of looking for a church in a new community right now and feel criticism for seeking any input other than the"voice of God" on another thread in this very forum.

Change comes from within. Sometimes we are just to unequipped or even lazy to attempt change from within, I know I was. I just try and remember the following:

To many folks these days are trying to come up w/a game plan before they know their way to the ballpark.

The Bible, like a bank, is most helpful when it is open.

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires

 

[discernomatic]

Not those exact words! But it started when I was young, where someone told me, "What right do you think you have that you could hear God's will for your life yourself?" That was after several years of discerning God's voice.....felt that God was giving us an open hand to warn leaders of certain details. We were not divisive, and supported leadership in all our comments, but were more blunt in our letters than they were ready for.....it felt like a step of maturity, to risk my reputation for the sake of protecting others.

I know where you're coming from. I got criticism fairly early too and still experience it even though I'm over 30 (ain't sayin' how much) mainly because I am a woman, I think and also because I am not clergy.
To the rest of what you wrote I can say AMEN, too . Jesus is capable of protecting and guiding each one of us as the good shepherd that He is.
[/QUOTE]

 

[discernomatic]

I am in the process of looking for a church in a new community right now and feel criticism for seeking any input other than the"voice of God" on another thread in this very forum.

I wouldn't criticize you for looking for a church or group. I think that fellowship with other Christians is a good thing when possible. Just be cautious and watch out for manipulation and gimmicks, that's all. Be discerning.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Always search for the truth. The truth is not always pretty.

I think you signature quote says alot.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I had a pastor tell me and about 10 other people to lay down on the floor of the rec hall and he turned out all the lights and played that song "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" really loud and told us to just listen to the music and not to anything else going on in the room. It was pitch dark, so you couldn't see anything and the pastor kept walking around in the dark, kneeling next to everyone. I don't know that he was doing to them, but the whole thing was really strange to me and I couldn't imagine what it had to do with the Bible or Jesus. It gave me the creeps, along with his constant asking for a hug from everyone. I quit going there soon after the "song" incident and now when-ever I hear that song...I get a creepy feeling.
I guess you just have to read the Bible for yourself and let it be your guide, as man has faults and can lead you astray--but, the Word never will.
Take Care,
C J