Denying Jesus

[JesusFollowerForever]

people believe misinterpret paul so much so that they deny the words of Jesus they put Paul before Jesus.

No one that writes here is claiming the Sabbath command WAS not Biblical. It WAS a command of the old covenant given to only one nation. It was never given to the Gentile nations and it certainly is not part of the new and better covenant ratified with Jesus Blood at Calvary.

Bob can you define precisely the new covenant, what does it contain? i would want to know what you think of this, please be specific, I would want the details and scripture to match. The old covenant was precisely defined so I am thinking the new one also would be defined with details.

Thank you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Obviously what you said here is NOT clear at all since 98% of all Christians disagree with you. What would’ve been clear is if he actually made a distinction between the Saturday sabbath and the other sabbath days. Now that would’ve been clear, but he made no such distinction. The only evidence you actually have is you simply saying nuh uh.

Maybe why Jesus told us to take the narrow path and not the wide path most follow. Mat 7:13-14 and it’s just a remnant who keep the commandments of God Rev 12:17 KJV. Never are we told to follow the majority. The majority historically have always gotten it wrong

 

[Leaf473]

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 14:37-38 - New International Reader's Version

Suppose anyone thinks they are a prophet. Or suppose they think they have other gifts given by the Holy Spirit. They should agree that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. But anyone who does not recognize this will not be recognized.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[DamianWarS]

How many laws were placed inside the ark of the covenant written by the finger of God? Not all the laws He added no more to the Ten, so yes God separated them from all other laws. Your grievance is not with me.

10 commandments established a covenant relationship (Ex 34) and the 4th is a sign of this covenant (Ex 31) they are placed in the ark of the covenant (Ex 25:21), they are call the tablets of covenant law (Ex 31:18) Christ references them as from the old in Mat 5 and quotes commandments outside the 10 and calls them the greatest (Mat 22:36-40, Deu 6:5, Lev 19:18). James tells us to not pick favorites laws and warns us if we are guilty of the ones we ingnore we are guilty of all of it (jam 2). Paul tells is what counts is keeping God commandments (1 Cor 7:19) which is a mirror verse to Gal 5:6 (written earlier) that tells us what counts is love expressed through faith and Gal 6:15 that tells us what counts is the new creation, this is what God commandments are in the new covenant.

Paul also tells us in Gal 5:24 Christ's law fulfills the entire law, he repeats this in Rom 13:8-10, again. Christ laws fulfills the law (this includes the 10) James repeats this saying we should focus on the Royal law (Christ's law) rather than pick favorites. What are they repeating? Christ when he says "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two" (Mat 22:40). He demonstrates this law of love applied to the 10. In Mat 5 with murder and adultery saying "you have heard it said of those of old [Do not murder/commit adultery]... But I say...." Showing us a better way. He also shows it with Sabbath showing that doing good fulfills the Sabbath (Mat 12:12)

Where are the 10 commandments now? Who knows but their place is in the covenant they belong too. Scripture has never told is to take the tablets out and put them in the new covenant. Sure Moses took them out of the ark to judge someone in old covenant but this is old covenant actions being performed in old covenant place and time. Nothing, in all of scripture tells us to call them the new covenant, yet we have explicit commandments to follow in the new covenant that are spelt out quite clearly but still all you seem to see is a 10 commandment vacuum. What happened to the the everlasting covenant of circumsion in Gen 17? (Explicitly to be peformed in the flesh). Are these not God words too? Are they not his commandments? Is it not his perfect law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

10 commandments established a covenant relationship (Ex 34) and the 4th is a sign of this covenant (Ex 31) they are placed in the ark of the covenant (Ex 25:21), they are call the tablets of covenant law (Ex 31:18) Christ references them as from the old in Mat 5 and quotes commandments outside the 10 and calls them the greatest (Mat 22:36-40, Deu 6:5, Lev 19:18). James tells us to not pick favorites laws and warns us if we are guilty of the ones we ingnore we are guilty of all of it (jam 2). Paul tells is what counts is keeping God commandments (1 Cor 7:19) which is a mirror verse to Gal 5:6 (written earlier) that tells us what counts is love expressed through faith and Gal 6:15 that tells us what counts is the new creation, this is what God commandments are in the new covenant.

Paul also tells us in Gal 5:24 Christ's law fulfills the entire law, he repeats this in Rom 13:8-10, again. Christ laws fulfills the law (this includes the 10) James repeats this saying we should focus on the Royal law (Christ's law) rather than pick favorites. What are they repeating? Christ when he says "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two" (Mat 22:40). He demonstrates this law of love applied to the 10. In Mat 5 with murder and adultery saying "you have heard it said of those of old [Do not murder/commit adultery]... But I say...." Showing us a better way. He also shows it with Sabbath showing that doing good fulfills the Sabbath (Mat 12:12)

Where are the 10 commandments now? Who knows but their place is in the covenant they belong too. Scripture has never told is to take the tablets out and put them in the new covenant. Sure Moses took them out of the ark to judge someone in old covenant but this is old covenant actions being performed in old covenant place and time. Nothing, in all of scripture tells us to call them the new covenant, yet we have explicit commandments to follow in the new covenant that are spelt out quite clearly but still all you seem to see is a 10 commandment vacuum. What happened to the the everlasting covenant of circumsion in Gen 17? (Explicitly to be peformed in the flesh). Are these not God words too? Are they not his commandments? Is it not his perfect law?

That wasn’t the question. I can see why it was left unanswered the scriptures were very plain

Jesus never referenced the Ten as from the old that’s a misquote. It was said to those of old- big difference in meaning.

Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

Are you claiming Jesus says we can break the commandment to thou shalt not commit adultery. Is this your interpretation of not breaking the least of these commandments?

We don’t have to guess where the Ten Commandments are- God said He wrote His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and of course it would be the same law Jesus said when we keep our own traditions (rules) over obeying the commandment of God giving an example right from the Ten Mat 15:3-15 our hearts are far from Him. Jesus wants us close and not to sin so He placed His law in our hearts right where sin begins. Best not to change what God placed there.

You keep trying to make circumcision equal with the Ten Commandments but it’s not. It was discussed to death in Galatians Acts and Corinthians it was what the Jews were trying to force too but Paul was pretty clear what matters is faith, becoming a new creation and keeping the commandments of God- His version not mans.

Love fulfills the law but love to God or to man doesn’t go undefined. Rom 13:9 1 John 5:2-3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15. If we love God we would obey Him and follow His teachings and example. If we love man we would not due harm to them such as Rom 13:9 from Exo 20

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

@Bob S @Leaf473 @BNR32FAN

The Ten Commandments, given by God to Moses, are still very important for us today. In Exodus 20:1-17, we find these key rules that guide how we should live. They teach us how to love God and how to treat each other.

Jesus affirmed these commandments when He said in Matthew 5:17-19, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” This shows us that He came to complete the law, not to get rid of it. Every part of the law is still valuable and meaningful.

While Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws, like sacrifices and festivals, He did not abolish the moral laws. The Apostle Paul reminds us in Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” This means that having faith in Jesus does not erase God's rules; it helps us understand and live by them even more.

When we talk about the Sabbath, some people think we don’t need to keep it anymore. But God established this day of rest from the very beginning. In Genesis 2:2-3, God rested on the seventh day and made it holy. The command to observe the Sabbath reminds us of God's creative power and gives us a chance to rest and refresh our spirits. Jesus said in Mark 2:27, “The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.” This means the Sabbath is a gift for our well-being.

In short, the Ten Commandments are not just old rules; they are vital for how we live our lives today. They show us God's heart and His desire for us to live in a way that reflects His love and goodness. While some parts of the Law of Moses were fulfilled in Jesus, the moral teachings in the Ten Commandments are still essential. As followers of Christ, we are called to uphold these commandments, not to earn our salvation, but as a thankful response to God’s love. By living this way, we shine His light in a world that needs hope and guidance.

Many people believe that the Ten Commandments belong only to the old covenant and that they are no longer relevant. However, this view overlooks the truth found in Scripture. While it is true that the old covenant, based on the law, was fulfilled in Jesus, the moral principles behind the commandments remain unchanged.

In Hebrews 8:6-7, we learn that Jesus established a new covenant. This does not mean that the old covenant’s moral laws were thrown away; rather, the new covenant is built on better promises. The essence of God's moral law, including the Ten Commandments, still guides our lives.

Jesus emphasized that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). He summarized the entire law in these two principles, showing that the Ten Commandments still reflect God’s heart for us. The commandments teach us how to love God and one another, which is timeless.

Furthermore, in Romans 7:12, Paul writes, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” This highlights that the commandments still have value and purpose. They help us understand what it means to live in a way that honors God and benefits our relationships.

So, while we live under a new covenant of grace, the moral teachings of the Ten Commandments continue to guide us. They remind us of God’s standards and help us grow in love and righteousness. The commandments are not outdated; they are as relevant today as they were when first given.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

@Bob S @Leaf473 @BNR32FAN​

Understanding the Rest of the Law of Moses for Gentiles​

The Law of Moses, which includes not only the Ten Commandments but also a variety of other laws and regulations, was given to the Israelites as part of their covenant with God. These laws covered various aspects of life, including worship, dietary restrictions, and social justice. While many of these laws were specific to the Jewish people, it’s essential to understand how they apply to non-Jews today.

In the New Testament, we see that the early church faced questions about the role of the Law for Gentile believers. In Acts 15, during the Council of Jerusalem, the apostles discussed whether Gentiles should follow Jewish laws. They concluded that while salvation comes through grace and faith in Jesus, certain fundamental guidelines should be observed by Gentile believers. They specifically mentioned four requirements in Acts 15:28-29:

Abstain from pollution of idols.
Abstain from sexual immorality.
Abstain from things strangled.
Abstain from blood.

These guidelines were intended to help Gentiles live in a way that respects both God and the Jewish believers, promoting unity in the early church.

The prohibition against idol worship emphasizes the importance of devotion to the one true God, which aligns with the first commandment. Sexual morality is vital for maintaining healthy relationships and honoring God’s design for marriage and family. The rules concerning food, particularly avoiding blood and strangled animals, reflect God’s commands regarding holiness and purity.

Beyond these specific guidelines, Gentile believers are encouraged to embrace the moral principles behind the Law. For example, Jesus taught that loving one’s neighbor (Mark 12:31) and treating others with respect and kindness are essential aspects of living out one’s faith. The Apostle Paul also wrote in Galatians 5:14, “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

Gentile believers are called to live by the Spirit, as Paul encourages in Romans 8:1-4. This means that while the specific laws of Moses may not apply in the same way, the underlying moral and ethical teachings continue to guide us.

To conclude, Gentiles are not required to follow the entirety of the Law of Moses, but they are encouraged to observe certain key principles that promote love, respect, and holiness. By focusing on faith in Christ and living out the moral teachings of Scripture, believers, regardless of their background can honour God and fulfill His purpose in their lives.

Blessings.

 

[Bob S]

Paul wasn’t referring to the Sabbath commandment as he made clear the law he was referring to handwritten ordinances written by Moses that were contrary and against Col 2:14 Deut 31:24-26 not the Ten Commandments that we all will by Judged by James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 written by God Himself placed under His mercy seat where justice and mercy will be decided.

Let us get this straight. If God didn't write the Ten Commandments with His hand how did He write them? Did He have some sort of a machine? I ask you once more, are the commands written on stone any more perfect than the ones He spoke to Moses? It seems to me that They both were God's commands to Israel. The fact is the ones He spoke to Moses had the greatest commands ever given, love to God and love to others. How do you reconcile that fact?

Seems like an easy decision for me.

They were keeping every Sabbath in Acts Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc so obviously there is a misunderstanding in what Paul is teaching hence the warning.

Show us where it says they were "keeping" the Sabbath.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Maybe why Jesus told us to take the narrow path and not the wide path most follow. Mat 7:13-14 and it’s just a remnant who keep the commandments of God Rev 12:17 KJV. Never are we told to follow the majority. The majority historically have always gotten it wrong

Oh well the majority of Christians believe the Nicene Creed so according to your logic it’s must all be wrong. SDA has around 22 million members and LDS have only 17 million so according to your logic since the mormans have less members the SDA must be wrong. I’m sure there are other churches out there with far less members because their theology is so far from being biblical, maybe they’re right because they have less members. Are you starting to see how illogical your argument is?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Maybe why Jesus told us to take the narrow path and not the wide path most follow. Mat 7:13-14 and it’s just a remnant who keep the commandments of God Rev 12:17 KJV. Never are we told to follow the majority. The majority historically have always gotten it wrong

Well I don’t recall Ellen White being mentioned in the scriptures as an apostle. You do realize that she did in fact write that anyone who doesn’t keep the sabbath has received the mark of the beast, right? Ellen White was a Judaizer who taught justification thru works of the law just like the ones mentioned in Galatians. So the “remnant” you speak of was established by a heretic?

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well I don’t recall Ellen White being mentioned in the scriptures as an apostle. You do realize that she did in fact write that anyone who doesn’t keep the sabbath has received the mark of the beast, right? Ellen White was a Judaizer who taught justification thru works of the law just like the ones mentioned in Galatians. So the “remnant” you speak of was established by a heretic?

She never claimed to be an apostle so not sure where you got that from. No one ever quoted Ellen White in this thread and typically she is brought up when one doesn't have a biblical argument to support the scripture reference.

Ellen White was not a Judaizer she an advocate of commandment-keeping. She believed in obeying Gods commandments over obeying man, which is what the apostles taught and what Jesus taught Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13. I would personally be more worried about people who teach we don‘t have to obey God’s commandments or the Ten Commandments is multiple choice or optional. At least that what Jesus warned us about, breaking or teaching others to break the least of these commandments, which comes with some steep consequences . Mat 5:19

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

You might consider reading all of Galatians, it helps put Paul's writing in proper context. The main law they are referring to is circumcision. They were trying to make new Gentile Christian converts be circumcised for salvation. There is nothing in the Ten Commandments about circumcision and not the main law Paul is referring to in Galatians, He contrasted circumcision with the commandments of God and said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19.


Gal 2:3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh well the majority of Christians believe the Nicene Creed so according to your logic it’s must all be wrong. SDA has around 22 million members and LDS have only 17 million so according to your logic since the mormans have less members the SDA must be wrong. I’m sure there are other churches out there with far less members because their theology is so far from being biblical, maybe they’re right because they have less members. Are you starting to see how illogical your argument is?

I prefer to follow what the scriptures say, the bible is my Creed. The remnant means the small remainder of the original Its says nothing about having less members, but says its not the majority and scriptures tells us what the remnant does....

Rev 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I doubt any one denomination will all be saved, there are many wheats and tares everywhere, but according to God's Word, this is the fruit of the saved, they keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12. Which means following His teachings and does them, not just hearers James 1:22

Anway, we are going to end up where we always do and that's okay, we don't have to agree. I do hope one day you will reconsider the Sabbath commandment, if we agree to keep 9 of the Ten seems like we need to have room for faith for all of them, especially when God asked us to Remember. God only wants to bless and sanctify us Isa 56:1-6 Eze 20:12, because we can't do that ourselves, we need God.

 

[Leaf473]

That wasn’t the question. I can see why it was left unanswered the scriptures were very plain

Jesus never referenced the Ten as from the old that’s a misquote. It was said- to those of old big difference in meaning.

Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

Are you claiming Jesus says we can break the commandment to thou shalt not commit adultery. Is this your interpretation of not breaking the least of these commandments?

We don’t have to guess where the Ten Commandments are- God said He wrote His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10

Is everyone in the New Covenant aware of the Sabbath commandment, then?

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:10 - New Century Version

This is the agreement I will make with the people of Israel at that time, says the Lord. I will put my teachings in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

www.biblegateway.com

and of course it would be the same law Jesus said when we keep our own traditions (rules) over obeying the commandment of God giving an example right from the Ten Mat 15:3-15 our hearts are far from Him. Jesus wants us close and not to sin so He placed His law in our hearts right where sin begins. Best not to change what God placed there.

You keep trying to make circumcision equal with the Ten Commandments but it’s not. It was discussed to death in Galatians Acts and Corinthians it was what the Jews were trying to force too but Paul was pretty clear what matters is faith, becoming a new creation and keeping the commandments of God- His version not mans.

Love fulfills the law but love to God or to man doesn’t go undefined. Rom 13:9 1 John 5:2-3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15. If we love God we would obey Him and follow His teachings and example. If we love man we would not due harm to them such as Rom 13:9

 

[Leaf473]

@Bob S @Leaf473 @BNR32FAN

The Ten Commandments, given by God to Moses, are still very important for us today. In Exodus 20:1-17, we find these key rules that guide how we should live. They teach us how to love God and how to treat each other.

Jesus affirmed these commandments when He said in Matthew 5:17-19, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” This shows us that He came to complete the law, not to get rid of it. Every part of the law is still valuable and meaningful.

While Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws, like sacrifices and festivals, He did not abolish the moral laws. The Apostle Paul reminds us in Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” This means that having faith in Jesus does not erase God's rules; it helps us understand and live by them even more.

When we talk about the Sabbath, some people think we don’t need to keep it anymore. But God established this day of rest from the very beginning. In Genesis 2:2-3, God rested on the seventh day and made it holy. The command to observe the Sabbath reminds us of God's creative power and gives us a chance to rest and refresh our spirits. Jesus said in Mark 2:27, “The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.” This means the Sabbath is a gift for our well-being.

In short, the Ten Commandments are not just old rules; they are vital for how we live our lives today. They show us God's heart and His desire for us to live in a way that reflects His love and goodness. While some parts of the Law of Moses were fulfilled in Jesus, the moral teachings in the Ten Commandments are still essential. As followers of Christ, we are called to uphold these commandments, not to earn our salvation, but as a thankful response to God’s love. By living this way, we shine His light in a world that needs hope and guidance.

Many people believe that the Ten Commandments belong only to the old covenant and that they are no longer relevant. However, this view overlooks the truth found in Scripture. While it is true that the old covenant, based on the law, was fulfilled in Jesus, the moral principles behind the commandments remain unchanged.

In Hebrews 8:6-7, we learn that Jesus established a new covenant. This does not mean that the old covenant’s moral laws were thrown away; rather, the new covenant is built on better promises. The essence of God's moral law, including the Ten Commandments, still guides our lives.

Jesus emphasized that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). He summarized the entire law in these two principles, showing that the Ten Commandments still reflect God’s heart for us. The commandments teach us how to love God and one another, which is timeless.

Furthermore, in Romans 7:12, Paul writes, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” This highlights that the commandments still have value and purpose. They help us understand what it means to live in a way that honors God and benefits our relationships.

So, while we live under a new covenant of grace, the moral teachings of the Ten Commandments continue to guide us. They remind us of God’s standards and help us grow in love and righteousness. The commandments are not outdated; they are as relevant today as they were when first given.

Hi JesusFollowerForever

Is this a moral commandment?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 23:11 - New Century Version

Then during the seventh year, do not plow or plant your land. If any food grows there, allow the poor people to have it, and let the wild animals eat what is left. You should do the same with your vineyards and your orchards of olive trees.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

@Bob S @Leaf473 @BNR32FAN​

Understanding the Rest of the Law of Moses for Gentiles​

The Law of Moses, which includes not only the Ten Commandments but also a variety of other laws and regulations, was given to the Israelites as part of their covenant with God. These laws covered various aspects of life, including worship, dietary restrictions, and social justice. While many of these laws were specific to the Jewish people, it’s essential to understand how they apply to non-Jews today.

In the New Testament, we see that the early church faced questions about the role of the Law for Gentile believers. In Acts 15, during the Council of Jerusalem, the apostles discussed whether Gentiles should follow Jewish laws. They concluded that while salvation comes through grace and faith in Jesus, certain fundamental guidelines should be observed by Gentile believers. They specifically mentioned four requirements in Acts 15:28-29:

Abstain from pollution of idols.
Abstain from sexual immorality.
Abstain from things strangled.
Abstain from blood.

These guidelines were intended to help Gentiles live in a way that respects both God and the Jewish believers, promoting unity in the early church.

The prohibition against idol worship emphasizes the importance of devotion to the one true God, which aligns with the first commandment. Sexual morality is vital for maintaining healthy relationships and honoring God’s design for marriage and family.

The rules concerning food, particularly avoiding blood and strangled animals, reflect God’s commands regarding holiness and purity.

Hi again

When fluids come out of our body, do they affect our holiness and purity?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 15:2-3 - New Century Version

“Say to the people of Israel: ‘When a fluid comes from a person’s body, the fluid is unclean. It doesn’t matter if the fluid flows freely or if it is blocked from flowing; the fluid will make him unclean. This is the way the fluid makes him unclean:

www.biblegateway.com

Beyond these specific guidelines, Gentile believers are encouraged to embrace the moral principles behind the Law. For example, Jesus taught that loving one’s neighbor (Mark 12:31) and treating others with respect and kindness are essential aspects of living out one’s faith. The Apostle Paul also wrote in Galatians 5:14, “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

Gentile believers are called to live by the Spirit, as Paul encourages in Romans 8:1-4. This means that while the specific laws of Moses may not apply in the same way, the underlying moral and ethical teachings continue to guide us.

To conclude, Gentiles are not required to follow the entirety of the Law of Moses, but they are encouraged to observe certain key principles that promote love, respect, and holiness. By focusing on faith in Christ and living out the moral teachings of Scripture, believers, regardless of their background can honour God and fulfill His purpose in their lives.

Blessings.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Hi again

When fluids come out of our body, do they affect our holiness and purity?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 15:2-3 - New Century Version

“Say to the people of Israel: ‘When a fluid comes from a person’s body, the fluid is unclean. It doesn’t matter if the fluid flows freely or if it is blocked from flowing; the fluid will make him unclean. This is the way the fluid makes him unclean:

www.biblegateway.com

do you really want to know or are you just teasing me?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let us get this straight. If God didn't write the Ten Commandments with His hand how did He write them?

God wrote the Ten Commandments with His finger.

Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

 

[Leaf473]

do you really want to know or are you just teasing me?

I really want to know what you say

My impression was that you were saying that laws relating to purity and holiness would be moral laws, and therefore still in effect

Does Leviticus 15:2-3 relate to purity and holiness?

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 6:6-9 - New Century Version

Always remember these commands I give you today. Teach them to your children, and talk about them when you sit at home and walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Write them down and tie them to your hands as a sign. Tie them on your forehead to remind you, and write them on...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus never referenced the Ten as from the old that’s a misquote. It was said to those of old- big difference in meaning.

the context in Mat 5 leaves an impression that it is from the old. However if the 10 are not from the old then what other covenant are they from? We can infer this plainly from the text. However, even if you disagree Jesus quotes the law, then shows us a better way. his conclusions do not end at the law in question, but rather his focus is on his better way, so should ours.

Are you claiming Jesus says we can break the commandment to thou shalt not commit adultery. Is this your interpretation of not breaking the least of these commandments?

I'm suggesting Christ shows us a better way. Christ's law is a heuristic approach to God's commandments. heuristics are not a list of dos and donts, it is an approach that draws out the correct application and meaning in where it's being applied and does so dynamically. So Christ's law applied to adultery wouldn't be "just don't do it" which is a style of the law but more like what can I do to prevent it. Christ says even if you look at another lustfully the sin is committed, so the goal is not merely the outward resistance to sin which is what the law is focses on, but the inward resistance to it as well and this is of the heart. Laws written upon our heart transform us from the inward out, where the law focuses on the outward-in.... or just the outward.

We don’t have to guess where the Ten Commandments are- God said He wrote His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and of course it would be the same law Jesus said when we keep our own traditions (rules) over obeying the commandment of God giving an example right from the Ten Mat 15:3-15 our hearts are far from Him. Jesus wants us close and not to sin so He placed His law in our hearts right where sin begins. Best not to change what God placed there.

you're conflating again, taking an example and pushing it to a level the text cannot support. Christ is not saying in Mat 15 that the 10 commandments are universal moral law that the new covenant is bound by, Christ is calling out hypocritical practices. please don't turn it into something it's not. laws in our heart are driven by a transformation of the heart first which then have a product of outward action. The law is focused on the outward display first so the laws are limited and can have a lot of loopholes because I may not murder, steal, lie to my neighbour or covet their things or sleep with their wife but I may still harbour hate in my heart for them (and his wife). The former keeps the law, the latter breaks it. We are driven by a method that transforms the heart, not merely the superficial display of actions. So if circumcision is an outward display of a deeper inner value, what is that deeper inner value? It's this deeper inner value of the heart that the new covenant focuses on and this methodology can be applied to all laws and will have the most impact on laws that focus heavily on the outer display of action.

You keep trying to make circumcision equal with the Ten Commandments but it’s not. It was discussed to death in Galatians Acts and Corinthians it was what the Jews were trying to force too but Paul was pretty clear what matters is faith, becoming a new creation and keeping the commandments of God- His version not mans.

I'm not ranking law. the only law scripture ranks is the greatest commandments so it's what we should be doing too, the 10 however are not elevated as you suppose. You have anecdotally elevated the 10 commandments from this "finger of God" line. God has manifested himself in many ways, why is it you are calling one greater than another? Why is it you are calling an unmanifested God of lower value? Scripture does not support these claims you are applying to the 10 commandments so why start inventing reasons to do so? You speak of traditions of men? well if the idea is not found in the bible then where does the idea come from if not from traditions?

Love fulfills the law but love to God or to man doesn’t go undefined. Rom 13:9 1 John 5:2-3 Exo 20:6 John 14:15. If we love God we would obey Him and follow His teachings and example. If we love man we would not due harm to them such as Rom 13:9 from Exo 20

Christ's law is a heuristic approach. heuristics don't make a list of dos and donts but teach you how to approach a circumstance and dynamically apply what is needed. This is a lot different than leaving it undefined. if it were left undefined there would be no New Testament writings and it would have all been done in secret but this is not the case, we have a lot on the subject regarding Christian living in the new covenant. 1 Cor 7:19, Gal 5:6, Gal 6:15 shows us God's commandments are uniquely defined through the new creation by showing others love, which are defined from Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit. We are told to keep Christ's law and we will do fine, but you keep seeing the 10 commandments despite the text telling us to stop looking at these as our guide because we have a better way.

observe Christ's dialog in Mat 19:16-21

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor,(V) and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Here Christ at first points to the law, specifically parts of the 10, so we may be tempted to say Christ is affirming the 10 commandments. but Christ knew his heart and was setting up the individual to show him where his focus should be and so uses the 10 to draw out the deeper issues. the conclusion is not left at law, it is left at selling his possessions and giving them to the poor which is a very different answer, one that could not be the product of the 10. Christ redirects the question to expose the individual's heart and where the 10 were brought up first, we are not left with that focus and we see that the latter takes precedence over the former. the man asks "what do I still lack?" implicitly showing the 10 are not enough and are lacking. This is similar to how Christ approaches things in Mat 5, he may draw attention to commandments but only as a segue to show what is better. The mere mention of said commandments are not enough to tell us we should continue to value them in the same way, the goals always go beyond law and exposes its limits. We should align ourselves to what Christ reveals as the goal, not to what Christ exposes as lacking.

 

[BNR32FAN]

She never claimed to be an apostle so not sure where you got that from. No one ever quoted Ellen White in this thread and typically she is brought up when one doesn't have a biblical argument to support the scripture reference.

Ellen White was not a Judaizer she an advocate of commandment-keeping. She believed in obeying Gods commandments over obeying man, which is what the apostles taught and what Jesus taught Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13. I would personally be more worried about people who teach we don‘t have to obey God’s commandments or the Ten Commandments is multiple choice or optional. At least that what Jesus warned us about, breaking or teaching others to break the least of these commandments, which comes with some steep consequences . Mat 5:19



You might consider reading all of Galatians, it helps put Paul's writing in proper context. The main law they are referring to is circumcision. They were trying to make new Gentile Christian converts be circumcised for salvation. There is nothing in the Ten Commandments about circumcision and not the main law Paul is referring to in Galatians, He contrasted circumcision with the commandments of God and said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19.


Gal 2:3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek

I’ve been making biblical arguments the whole time. And exposing Ellen White’s heresy of obtaining justification through works of the law is 100% biblical which is why I quoted Galatians. Your statement that the SDA is the “remnant” required me to resort to exposing its heretical origins.

In 2 Corinthians 3 Paul said that the letter of the law written in stone brought death but the letter written in our hearts which surpasses it brought liberty.

“Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬