Denying Jesus

[BNR32FAN]

Your choice to believe and obey Jesus the Son of GOD or not, see post 64 and 68 of this thread

So then your answer is no then, Jesus did not command anyone to keep the Sabbath. Post 64 is from Deuteronomy, do you think keeping God’s commandments in Deuteronomy meant only the 10 commandments? Post 68 is a complication of verses, let’s go thru them one by one shall we?

I will start with this for now;
Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV): "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Was all fulfilled? Did Jesus fulfill the law? Jesus was the only One who fulfilled the law. And what happened afterwards? Where’s the law concerning circumcision? Gone. Where’s the law concerning the feasts and New Moon rituals? Gone. Where’s the law concerning burnt offerings and sin offerings? Gone. So answer me this, have none of the laws passed away?

Matthew 24:35 (KJV):
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

This has nothing to do with the laws or the Sabbath because as you’ve already demonstrated Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath.

1 John 2:3-4 (KJV):
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Whose commandments? Jesus’ commandments? Still haven’t seen a verse of Jesus commanding anyone to keep the Sabbath.

Deuteronomy 5:29 (KJV):
"O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"

Jesus says My commandments. Still no verse of Jesus telling anyone to keep the Sabbath.

John 14:15 (KJV):
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Again My commandments and again still no commandment from Jesus about the Sabbath.

Romans 7:12 (KJV):
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

Yeah what does this have to do with keeping the Sabbath? The Law is NOT only the 10 commandments. The Law is the entire Torah not just Exodus 20.

So

 

[BNR32FAN]

Show me the verse(s) where Jesus appoints Paul as an apostle.

“But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

“But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

you forgot also;
Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

yes paul was an instrument but if he seemed sometimes to contradict the teachings of Jesus, Jesus words have precedence. It is not possible Jesus instructed Paul to say the commandments are no longer valid as Jesus was teaching them during his ministry and after his transfiguration asked the 11 remaining disciples to teach all the he was teaching and all he did to all nations.

still no one ever called him an apostle, Jesus no, the disciples no also. Paul was a man imperfect like all of us, I am just trying to warn people to give credit to Jesus, the son of GOD, one with GOD for What he said and did, do not be fooled in believing the 10 commandments are not valid by anyone. Do not deny the words of Jesus, but one should follow him and no one else.

 

[Leaf473]

you forgot also;
Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

yes paul was an instrument but if he seemed sometimes to contradict the teachings of Jesus, Jesus words have precedence.

Jesus taught under the old Covenant

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:4 - New American Standard Bible

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

www.biblegateway.com

It is not possible Jesus instructed Paul to say the commandments are no longer valid as Jesus was teaching them during his ministry and after his transfiguration asked the 11 remaining disciples to teach all the he was teaching and all he did to all nations.

still no one ever called him an apostle, Jesus no, the disciples no also.

The writer of Acts refers to Paul and Barnabas as apostles

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 14:14 - New American Standard Bible

But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard about it, they tore their robes and rushed out into the crowd, crying out

www.biblegateway.com

Paul was a man imperfect like all of us, I am just trying to warn people to give credit to Jesus, the son of GOD, one with GOD for What he said and did, do not be fooled in believing the 10 commandments are not valid by anyone. Do not deny the words of Jesus, but one should follow him and no one else.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Jesus taught under the old Covenant

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:4 - New American Standard Bible

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

www.biblegateway.com

The writer of Acts refers to Paul and Barnabas as apostles

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 14:14 - New American Standard Bible

But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard about it, they tore their robes and rushed out into the crowd, crying out

www.biblegateway.com

you mean Luke paul's companion? of course he would say as paul did.

 

[Leaf473]

you mean Luke paul's companion? of course he would say as paul did.

Do you not accept the book of Acts as scripture?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

iDo you not accept the book of Acts as scripture?

yes I do! do you accept the words of Jesus as scriputure?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

you forgot also;
Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

yes paul was an instrument but if he seemed sometimes to contradict the teachings of Jesus, Jesus words have precedence. It is not possible Jesus instructed Paul to say the commandments are no longer valid as Jesus was teaching them during his ministry and after his transfiguration asked the 11 remaining disciples to teach all the he was teaching and all he did to all nations.

still no one ever called him an apostle, Jesus no, the disciples no also. Paul was a man imperfect like all of us, I am just trying to warn people to give credit to Jesus, the son of GOD, one with GOD for What he said and did, do not be fooled in believing the 10 commandments are not valid by anyone. Do not deny the words of Jesus, but one should follow him and no one else.

Paul was an apostle

Romans1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, [a]called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

and he never taught not to keep God's commandments including the Sabbath commandment, which he also faithfully kept decades after the Cross. Paul had no authority to undermine God, nor did he or would he. He is hard to understand even in his day and even more so today, people twist his words, sadly to their own destruction by pitting his teachings against Christ teachings. He was a servant of Christ and most of his perceived teachings on lawlessness are stripped from their context, its always best to error on the side of obedience than disobedience especially if there is a thus saith the Lord attached to it, as I know you agree.

God bless!

 

[Leaf473]

yes I do! do you accept the words of Jesus as scriputure?

If you accept the book of Acts as scripture, then you have an example of Paul being called an apostle.

I accept the words of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels. Those records were made by apostles or people close to them, I assume.

When we read the words in the Gospels, we are reading things written down by the apostles and their associates

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 1:3 - New American Standard Bible

it seemed fitting to me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in an orderly sequence, most excellent Theophilus;

www.biblegateway.com

When we read the letters of Paul, we are reading what Jesus revealed to him.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 14:37 - New American Standard Bible

If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[DamianWarS]

Please read Psa 89:34, its not just about God not breaking His covenant- thats only the first part.

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

What are the words of the covenant that God will not alter

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Why it continues to be a sin to break even the least of them in the New Covenant breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12


I still do not think you understand what the New Covenant is established on. Heb 8:6 You keep focusing on the law, but God said the New Covenant was established on better promises- it still has God’s law with Him writing in our hearts and minds, from tables of stone to tablets on the heart. Its the Old Covenant promises that are obsolete, the New Covenant has much better promises. Sadly many people don’t think the new promises are enough and won’t be satisfied until the Ten Commandments are gone, but thats mans will, not God its something the apostles touched on during the last days of earth, men would love self over God. God wrote His will for man with His own finger Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 Psa 40:8 and placed them in our hearts Heb 8:10 Jesus never taught to break them, said not to break the least of these commandments, but are to be kept by faith and love following His example Who kept them.

You are viewing this in a 10 commandments vacuum, Heb 8 certainly isn't (just read Heb 9). Circumcision was the sign of the covenant of Abraham with explicit instructions in the flesh as well as explicitly spoken to Abraham yet we no longer value cutting the flesh. The words however are not altered, they remain and still carry meaning, now fulfilled through spiritual means not through the flesh. This same process may be applied to the entire law, we already do it to many such as sacrificial systems or separating laws, they no longer need to be obversed in the physical because through Christ their physical counterpart is fulfilled and we now look to the spiritual meanings. You're tradition as well as mine both do this, so let's not pretend that it hasn't happened. With something like Sabbath ceasing from work on the sabbath day every week has a very physical element to it, that can be directly compared to the sacrifice that needs to be repeated over and over. We still value the sacrifice it's just all through Christ now and the repetitive physical obligation is complete. We still value circumcision but it's just through Christ and its repetitive physical obligation is complete. We still value the Sabbath but it's just through Christ and its repetitive physical obligation is complete. If you remove this from the Sabbath, you remove it from circumcision and you remove it from the sacrifice too. You can't separate one from another, they all have the same promises and if you take it away from one you are guilty of all of it. This is the same concept as Mat 5:19, Gal 3:10, Gal 5:3 and Jam 2:10 just in reverse.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are viewing this in a 10 commandments vacuum, Heb 8 certainly isn't (just read Heb 9). Circumcision was the sign of the covenant of Abraham with explicit instructions in the flesh as well as explicitly spoken to Abraham yet we no longer value cutting the flesh. The words however are not altered, they remain and still carry meaning, now fulfilled through spiritual means not through the flesh. This same process may be applied to the entire law, we already do it to many such as sacrificial systems or separating laws, they no longer need to be obversed in the physical because through Christ their physical counterpart is fulfilled and we now look to the spiritual meanings. You're tradition as well as mine both do this, so let's not pretend that it hasn't happened. With something like Sabbath ceasing from work on the sabbath day every week has a very physical element to it, that can be directly compared to the sacrifice that needs to be repeated over and over. We still value the sacrifice it's just all through Christ now and the repetitive physical obligation is complete. We still value circumcision but it's just through Christ and its repetitive physical obligation is complete. We still value the Sabbath but it's just through Christ and its repetitive physical obligation is complete. If you remove this from the Sabbath, you remove it from circumcision and you remove it from the sacrifice too. You can't separate one from another, they all have the same promises and if you take it away from one you are guilty of all of it. This is the same concept as Mat 5:19, Gal 3:10, Gal 5:3 and Jam 2:10 just in reverse.

I am viewing what the whole bible hangs on. Love to God, love to man which does not go undefined in scripture- why its God’s perfect law that converts the soul Psa 19:7 written by the finger of God. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Until one understands the significance of the Ten Commandments and how far of reach they go, will never understand the character of God or how to form in His image through His Spirit. If we are constantly fighting against God’s law- they way He wrote, well thats not really a good sign. Rom 8:7-8 whoever we obey is who we serve.

All gets sorted out soon enough. Take care.

 

[BNR32FAN]

you forgot also;
Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

yes paul was an instrument but if he seemed sometimes to contradict the teachings of Jesus, Jesus words have precedence. It is not possible Jesus instructed Paul to say the commandments are no longer valid as Jesus was teaching them during his ministry and after his transfiguration asked the 11 remaining disciples to teach all the he was teaching and all he did to all nations.

still no one ever called him an apostle, Jesus no, the disciples no also. Paul was a man imperfect like all of us, I am just trying to warn people to give credit to Jesus, the son of GOD, one with GOD for What he said and did, do not be fooled in believing the 10 commandments are not valid by anyone. Do not deny the words of Jesus, but one should follow him and no one else.

I didn’t forget Acts 13:1-2 because Paul was already an apostle before that.

You keep implying that Jesus commanded to keep the Sabbath but HE NEVER DID. That’s why you and nobody else in this thread can produce a verse where He commanded us to keep it. If Jesus would’ve commanded it the Sabbath would’ve never been changed by the Church and Paul would’ve never wrote Colossians 2:16. He also never said to keep the 10 commandments He said keep MY commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus is God- The Ten Commandments He wrote it He spoke it kept and the Sabbath is a commandment that is included in If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 just like He said right in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:6 don’t break the least of these Mat 5:19-30 and its now written in our heart Heb 8:10 as long as we don’t rebel against Him Rom 8:7-8 . It’s nonsense to claim He never said not to keep the Sabbath commandment. He never separated the Sabbath from the other commandments other than starting it with Remember, because He knew man would want to forget. Not all though just as predicted Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus is God- The Ten Commandments He wrote it He spoke it kept and its a commandment that is included in If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 just like He said right in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:6 don’t break the least of these Mat 5:19-30 and its now written in our heart Heb 8:10 as long as we don’t rebel against Him Rom 8:7-8 . Its nonsense to claim He never said not to keep the Sabbath commandment. He never separated the Sabbath from the other commandments other than starting it with Remember, because He knew man would want to forget. Not all though just as predicted Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12

If Jesus’ commandments are the commandments of God then He was telling everyone to keep the Torah because the Torah is the commandments of God. God didn’t stop giving commandments in Exodus 20 He continued giving commandments throughout the entire book of Exodus both before and after chapter 20. So if that’s how you’re going to define “My commandments” then you’re saying that we have to keep the entire Torah which isn’t even possible since the Temple was destroyed. You say Jesus never separated the Sabbath commandment from the 10 commandments but He never said to keep the 10 commandments and He never separated the 10 commandments from the rest of the commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Exodus 20:6 was written in the Ten Commandments by the finger of God and no more was added Deut 5:22 all other laws were written by Moses, placed outside the ark served as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 for breaking what was inside the ark- the Ten Commandment. To claim the Sabbath is not a commandment of God is not a biblical argument.

 

[Bob S]

Paul was an apostle

Romans1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, [a]called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

and he never taught not to keep God's commandments including the Sabbath commandment,

He never taught anyone to observe the Sabbath either and by the way, neither did Jesus.

which he also faithfully kept decades after the Cross.

How can you tell us that? Nowhere is it recorded Paul kept the Sabbath faithfully. His going into the synagogue doesn't mean he was Sabbath observant now does it?

Paul had no authority to undermine God,

Nor did Paul ever undermine God. God gave mankind a new and better covenant. That is what Paul taught. Gal 3:3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Verse 19 is the clincher if one is honest. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

nor did he or would he. He is hard to understand even in his day and even more so today, people twist his words, sadly to their own destruction by pitting his teachings against Christ teachings. He was a servant of Christ and most of his perceived teachings on lawlessness are stripped from their context, its always best to error on the side of obedience than disobedience especially if there is a thus saith the Lord attached to it, as I know you agree.

God bless!

Paul is not hard to understand if one realizes that Matt 5:16-17 means what it says. Jesus fulfilled the Law, brought it to an end Just like He brought the prophecies about Him to an end. Why would Paul continue to tell us that we are not under the Law if Matt 5:16-17 meant something else? Why are you not observing all of the Law if you don't believe Jesus ended it at Calvary? Remember, NOT ONE JOT....

 

[Bob S]

Exodus 20:6 was written in the Ten Commandments by the finger of God and no more was added Deut 5:22 all other laws were written by Moses, placed outside the ark served as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 for breaking what was inside the ark- the Ten Commandment. To claim the Sabbath is not a commandment of God is not a biblical argument.

Are you trying to indicate that Moses was the author of all of those commands.

Whether the commands came from writing with a finger or from the Mouth of God, they were given by God Is God's finger any more sacred than His voice?

 

[Bob S]

To claim the Sabbath is not a commandment of God is not a biblical argument.

No one that writes here is claiming the Sabbath command WAS not Biblical. It WAS a command of the old covenant given to only one nation. It was never given to the Gentile nations and it certainly is not part of the new and better covenant ratified with Jesus Blood at Calvary.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am viewing what the whole bible hangs on. Love to God, love to man which does not go undefined in scripture- why its God’s perfect law that converts the soul Psa 19:7 written by the finger of God. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Until one understands the significance of the Ten Commandments and how far of reach they go, will never understand the character of God or how to form in His image through His Spirit. If we are constantly fighting against God’s law- they way He wrote, well thats not really a good sign. Rom 8:7-8 whoever we obey is who we serve.

All gets sorted out soon enough. Take care.

You misquoted Romans 8:7-8 I believe you were actually referring to Romans 6:16 because you said this in an earlier post. I would be very careful about what verses you use in response to people who reject the Sabbath because if it’s your official position that those who do not keep the Sabbath and worship God on Sunday are actually serving satan which Paul specifically stated results in death then you’re actually teaching the very same thing that the Judaisers taught to the Galatians. Once you place observing the Sabbath as a condition for salvation you’re teaching justification by works of the law which is exactly the same trap that the Galatians fell into. So I think you need to choose your passages more carefully and think about the implications of them before posting them on this particular topic.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You misquoted Romans 8:7-8 I believe you were actually referring to Romans 6:16 because you said this in an earlier post. I would be very careful about what verses you use in response to people who reject the Sabbath because if it’s your official position that those who do not keep the Sabbath and worship God on Sunday are actually serving satan which Paul specifically stated results in death then you’re actually teaching the very same thing that the Judaisers taught to the Galatians. Once you place observing the Sabbath as a condition for salvation you’re teaching justification by works of the law which is exactly the same trap that the Galatians fell into. So I think you need to choose your passages more carefully and think about the implications of them before posting them on this particular topic.

I quoted the verse I meant to quote. God’s law includes the Sabbath despite peoples enmity against it. It was a commandment in the OT Exo 20:8-11 and stayed that way in the NT Luke 23:56. Kept by everyone we are to follow. Why its all throughout the whole bible from the beginning Gen 2:1-3 to the end Isa 66:23. It’s not God’s will we profane His Sabbath, but mans will. How many thus saith the Lords on the Sabbath does one have to reject to come to the conclusion we don’t need to keep the Sabbath commandment. A lot.

You added a lot to my post which are your words and not mine.

You are the one who keeps isolating the Sabbath commandment, when God didn’t. It’s part of the Ten Commanemnts, that came in a unit of Ten, not nine or one. Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

We are not saved by keeping any law, we are saved by faith through grace. Keeping God’s law is a consequence of salvation Rev 14:12 not a means to it. When Jesus comes all decisions will be made Rev 22:11. It’s not too late to obey God the way He asks today, but life is short, why God calls us out of our rebellion Heb 3:7-8 before its too late Rev 18:4 but will we listen.