Denying Jesus

[JesusFollowerForever]

Why then did Jesus even make Paul an apostle? Why do you refuse to answer my questions If we don't need the writings of Paul why are they part of the Holy Writ? I believe you have yourself backed into a corner. You are seeing the real truth but refuse to accept it.

Do you really follow Jesus? Jesus was a keeper of the Torah. The Torah consists of over 600 commands. Are you Kosher? Have you sold all you have and given it to the poor?

Yes, I do follow Jesus and believe that many of the ordinances and laws attributed to Moses (excluding the Ten Commandments) cannot be fully observed today. These laws were primarily designed to guide the Israelites as they journeyed from Egypt and settled in the Promised Land, providing them with a framework for community and societal thriving. While many of these ordinances were specific to their historical and cultural context, several remain valuable and can still be beneficial in contemporary life. There is nothing inherently wrong in following these enduring principles, as they continue to offer moral and ethical guidance.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus came teaching the Torah because He came for the people of Israel and Judah. Eph 2 tells us: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, ​

Jesus set aside the Torah which was a barrier between Jews and Gentiles. To try to tell us we somehow are under the dictates of the old covenant laws smacks totally with the words of Jesus' apostle Paul. To teach that anyone is under the laws of the old covenant is heresy.

Technically they don’t actually teach people to obey the law because they only teach that we must keep some of God’s commandments, not all of them. See, they’ll say that the Bible teaches that we must keep God’s commandments, but then when you actually start going thru all the commandments God made they’ll say no just the Ten Commandments because those are special but then they’ll throw in the dietary laws as well even tho they’re not part of the 10 commandments. Their theology is all over the place, they’re inconsistent in their reasoning and they’ll make huge leaps in assumptions about what Jesus taught. Like for example if Jesus says thou shalt not murder they’ll say see He’s teaching that we have to observe the 10 commandments because He quoted from the 10 commandments. Doesn’t matter that He quoted from Leviticus or that He quoted from the Torah or that He quoted from the Old Testament, the only thing they focus on is the part that fits their particular theology. It doesn’t matter that Jesus never said anything about keeping the Sabbath or that Paul specifically said that we are not to be judged for not keeping it. They’ll say things like Christians who don’t keep the Sabbath are rebelling against God. Like this thread for example, those who don’t keep the Sabbath, meaning those who worship on Sunday, are denying Christ. Like that makes any sense at all. We worship Jesus on Sunday because we are denying Him? What a strange way to rebel against God by worshipping Him every Sunday. Then there’s the whole “they changed it to Sunday to worship the sun god” when every day is named after a pagan god including Saturday. They completely ignore the real reason Christians worship on Sunday because of Christ’s resurrection. Nope, we’re apparently rebelling against God by worshipping the day Christ was resurrected because a 19th century theologian says so.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Technically they don’t actually teach people to obey the law because they only teach that we must keep some of God’s commandments, not all of them. See, they’ll say that the Bible teaches that we must keep God’s commandments, but then when you actually start going thru all the commandments God made they’ll say no just the Ten Commandments because those are special but then they’ll throw in the dietary laws as well even tho they’re not part of the 10 commandments. Their theology is all over the place, they’re inconsistent in their reasoning and they’ll make huge leaps in assumptions about what Jesus taught. Like for example if Jesus says thou shalt not murder they’ll say see He’s teaching that we have to observe the 10 commandments because He quoted from the 10 commandments. Doesn’t matter that He quoted from Leviticus or that He quoted from the Torah or that He quoted from the Old Testament, the only thing they focus on is the part that fits their particular theology. It doesn’t matter that Jesus never said anything about keeping the Sabbath or that Paul specifically said that we are not to be judged for not keeping it. They’ll say things like Christians who don’t keep the Sabbath are rebelling against God. Like this thread for example, those who don’t keep the Sabbath, meaning those who worship on Sunday, are denying Christ. Like that makes any sense at all. We worship Jesus on Sunday because we are denying Him? What a strange way to rebel against God by worshipping Him every Sunday. Then there’s the whole “they changed it to Sunday to worship the sun god” when every day is named after a pagan god including Saturday. They completely ignore the real reason Christians worship on Sunday because of Christ’s resurrection. Nope, we’re apparently rebelling against God by worshipping the day Christ was resurrected because a 19th century theologian says so.

It is your choice to disobey God or not, do not force it on others.

Sooo much easier to follow Paul than Jesus just be certain you do not follow the wide path;

Matthew 7:13-14:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Like I said Jesus said it all.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We do not need paul, Jesus did all and instructed the true believers on what to do. Paul is confusing many people Unfortunately.

if we removed all writings from the 12 disciples, you would know not much about Jesus If at all.
On the other hand, if you remove paul's epistles, you loose nothing but gain clarity.

prove me wrong.

Ok so just ignore over half of the New Testament because we don’t need that part? Lol

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is your choice to disobey God or not, do not force it on others.

Sooo much easier to follow Paul than Jesus just be certain you do not follow the wide path;

Matthew 7:13-14:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Like I said Jesus said it all.

Ok so Jesus appointing Paul as an apostle was a mistake? Paul didn’t teach what Jesus intended him to teach? Is that what you’re saying?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is your choice to disobey God or not, do not force it on others.

Sooo much easier to follow Paul than Jesus just be certain you do not follow the wide path;

Matthew 7:13-14:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Like I said Jesus said it all.

Perfect, where did Jesus say to keep the Sabbath?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you love Me keep My commandments. John 14:15 do not break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 The Sabbath is a commandment of God, even in the NT Luke 23:56 never abrogated in scripture Only by man. God said Remember, man says forget. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

Jesus kept the Sabbath and is our example to follow 1 John 2:5-6

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you love Me keep My commandments. John 14:15 do not break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 The Sabbath is a commandment of God, even in the NT Luke 23:56 never abrogated in scripture Only by man. God said Remember, man says forget. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

Jesus kept the Sabbath and is our example to follow 1 John 2:5-6

Jesus kept the entire Torah. Is that our example?

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you love Me keep My commandments. John 14:15 do not break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 The Sabbath is a commandment of God, even in the NT Luke 23:56 never abrogated in scripture Only by man. God said Remember, man says forget. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

Jesus kept the Sabbath and is our example to follow 1 John 2:5-6

If Jesus is our example then umm, wasn’t He circumcised? According to your logic shouldn’t that mean that we must be circumcised?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If Jesus is our example then umm, wasn’t He circumcised? According to your logic shouldn’t that mean that we must be circumcised?

Physical circumcision was addressed to death in scripture, it was always about spiritual circumcision which still applies today.

Why Paul said it’s not about circumcision but about keeping God’s commandments. 1 Cor 7:19 You will be hard pressed to find one scripture that says the Sabbath is not a commandment of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Physical circumcision was addressed to death in scripture, it was always about spiritual circumcision which still applies today.

Why Paul said it’s not about circumcision but about keeping God’s commandments. 1 Cor 7:19 You will be hard pressed to find one scripture that says the Sabbath is not a commandment of God.

So Jesus wasn’t physically circumcised? And you skipped my question about Him keeping the entire Torah.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It is your choice to disobey God or not, do not force it on others.

Sooo much easier to follow Paul than Jesus just be certain you do not follow the wide path;

Matthew 7:13-14:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Like I said Jesus said it all.

This is my take on the apostles writings. It is all inspired by God and meant for our learning and correction. That said, the apostles didn’t always have the right doctrine, Jesus had to correct them many times. Sometimes even the devil was leading them as noted by Jesus with Peter. They were learning and being corrected just like we are to be. They loved Jesus and were servants of Jesus but never were they ever commissioned to undermine Jesus and thats where people go wrong and why we have this warning, which comes with steep consequences about Paul writings. 2 Peter 3:16. Paul never undermined Jesus, never taught not to keep God’s commandments, not by teaching or actions as they also kept the commandments including every Sabbath decades after the cross. Paul would be mortified with what people have done with his teachings. The warning is there for good reason, but people believe what they want. If Jesus never taught what Paul is perceived to be teaching that has a warning, especially something written by the finger of God on His Authority that reveals God is our Creator. Paul cant take away God’s blessing or sanctification and Jesus certainly never did. That why people spend so much time arguing against the Sabbath commandment, deep down they know its God’s Truth just the scriptures tell us Psa 119:151 but they prefer to walk in their own truth inside of the light. John 3:18-20

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is my take on the apostles writings. It is all inspired by God and meant for our learning and correction. That said, the apostles didn’t always have the right doctrine, Jesus had to correct them many times. Sometimes even the devil was leading them as noted by Jesus with Peter. They were learning and being corrected just like we are to be. They loved Jesus and were servants of Jesus but never were they ever commissioned to undermine Jesus and thats where people go wrong and why we have this warning, which comes with steep consequences about Paul writings. 2 Peter 3:16. Paul never undermined Jesus, never taught not to keep God’s commandments, not by teaching or actions as they also kept the commandments including every Sabbath decades after the cross. Paul would be mortified with what people have done with his teachings. The warning is there for good reason, but people believe what they want. If Jesus never taught what Paul is perceived to be teaching that has a warning, especially something written by the finger of God on His Authority that reveals God is our Creator. Paul cant take away God’s blessing or sanctification and Jesus certainly never did. That why people spend so much time arguing against the Sabbath commandment, deep down they know its God’s Truth just the scriptures tell us Psa 119:151 but they prefer to walk in their own truth inside of the light. John 3:18-20

Again you’re still going to ignore the fact that Jesus kept the entire Torah and that is NOT the example He made for us. I asked twice and twice you ignored that reply.

 

[Leaf473]

About following Jesus or following Paul,

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 10:16 - New American Standard Bible

“The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; but the one who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”

www.biblegateway.com

Of course someone can say that Jesus wasn't talking about Paul.

We can also say that the Gospels are accurate, or not, and we can add or remove any books that we want

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Again you’re still going to ignore the fact that Jesus kept the entire Torah and that is NOT the example He made for us. I asked twice and twice you ignored that reply.

Nothing ignored just no point going down this road with you again since we have done it too many times.

It would be better to keep everything if we don’t understand some of the scriptures such as Heb 10:1-22 Deut 31:26-28 2 Cor 5:7 etc than to miss something we are told to keep. We are given free will though and it gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Ok so Jesus appointing Paul as an apostle was a mistake? Paul didn’t teach what Jesus intended him to teach? Is that what you’re saying?

Paul was teaching only a part of the gospel of Jesus not the whole thing, check scripture and compare and see.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Paul was teaching only a part of the gospel of Jesus not the whole thing, check scripture and compare and see.

Paul specifically said numerous times that he taught Christ’s gospel. And where did Jesus tell anyone to keep the sabbath?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Paul specifically said numerous times that he taught Christ’s gospel. And where did Jesus tell anyone to keep the sabbath?

Your choice to believe and obey Jesus the Son of GOD or not, see post 64 and 68 of this thread

 

[Leaf473]

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 14:5 - New Living Translation

In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Ok so Jesus appointing Paul as an apostle was a mistake? Paul didn’t teach what Jesus intended him to teach? Is that what you’re saying?

Show me the verse(s) where Jesus appoints Paul as an apostle.