Democratic Debate

parousia70

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There is no place for socialism in the US.

So you refuse to Drive on Interstate Highways? Walk on Sidewalks? Flush a toilet? Stop at a red light? Use Public education? Call 911 in an emergency? Support the troops?

Only socialists do those things in this country.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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The meaning of words change over time. What Sanders believes is socialism, is not the same thing as what the Church condemns.
I don't think the definition of socialism has changed any since 1961. Plus, St. John XXIII specifically said "no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism." Isn't the claim of socialists today that socialism is "moderate"? And the other quote I posted earlier in this thread (here), where St. John Paul II tells us to reject Marxist philosophy and atheistic Communism, is even more recent. It was written in 1998. But, and I'll say it again, whatever name Bernie Sanders calls himself, since he is for so-called "same-sex marriage" and abortion he's NOT going to get my vote.
 
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Tallguy88

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I don't think the definition of socialism has changed any since 1961. Plus, St. John XXIII specifically said "no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism." Isn't the claim of socialists today that socialism is "moderate"? And the other quote I posted earlier in this thread (here), where St. John Paul II tells us to reject Marxist philosophy and atheistic Communism, is even more recent. It was written in 1998. But, and I'll say it again, whatever name Bernie Sanders calls himself, since he is for so-called "same-sex marriage" and abortion he's NOT going to get my vote.
I don't trust Republicans to change those issues. They talk, but don't act. At least, not at the national level. At least Democrats are honest about what they want to do.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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I don't trust Republicans to change those issues. They talk, but don't act. At least, not at the national level. At least Democrats are honest about what they want to do.
The Republicans don't always do what they should, but they often do at least try to pass Pro-Life and marriage protection laws. And every once in a while they are successful despite that Democrats always fight tooth and nail to block their efforts.
 
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Hank77

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How is this a problem? I'd rather hire a CEO who knew how to build wealth than one who would spend my company... or my country.. into insolvency.
Did you deliberately miss the point or is there some other problem? Hilliary Clinton is also one of these extremely wealthy who would have the advantage over others who did not have that kind of personal wealth. And there are many others that you would not want to see elected. How about a little common sense here.
I can guarantee that my oldest has more financial wisdom in her little pinkie than over half the Congress that we trust to write a workable budget for this country. But she doesn't have the wealth to finance a campaign and she would never give up her integrity to play the favors game or pretend to be someone she is not.
But we will never get rid of the kind of people who are willing to do these things until we take campaign finance seriously.
Untrue. We're regulated to death.
Again you missed the point. By keeping wages so low that it takes two parents working in order to stay off of entitlement programs, that is working 80 hrs. a week to support a family. How is that so much better than before labor laws? And that leaves kids without a parent to care for them after school and sometimes even before school. What does this do to the family unit?
Here's a real life example. 1972 entry level wages $4.65 per hr., brand new, decked out Ford pickup $5,000. 2014, entry level same job $10-12.00, brand new Ford pickup $25-35,000. And almost everything else from food to clothing and shelter have gone up at the same rate or higher but wages haven't.
Another example. Twenty-five years ago the average salary for the owner or CEO of a company was paid 20 times more than their lowest paid employee. Now it is over 200 times more than the lowest paid employee.
That is what it means to say the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.
 
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stray bullet

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I don't think the definition of socialism has changed any since 1961. Plus, St. John XXIII specifically said "no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism." Isn't the claim of socialists today that socialism is "moderate"?

There are different meanings to the word 'socialism' and the two aren't referring to the same thing.

And the other quote I posted earlier in this thread (here), where St. John Paul II tells us to reject Marxist philosophy and atheistic Communism, is even more recent. It was written in 1998. But, and I'll say it again, whatever name Bernie Sanders calls himself, since he is for so-called "same-sex marriage" and abortion he's NOT going to get my vote.

Good luck for that. The Republicans know that you will continue to favor policies that benefit the rich only at the expense of the poor when they talk about "values" and nothing happens.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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There are different meanings to the word 'socialism' and the two aren't referring to the same thing.
I only care what the Church says about it. And the only thing the Church has said is that Catholics can't be socialists, not even if it's called "moderate socialism".
Good luck for that. The Republicans know that you will continue to favor policies that benefit the rich only at the expense of the poor when they talk about "values" and nothing happens.
How does being against abortion and for traditional family values favor the rich?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Because they talk about things that will not change. Abortion and homosexual "marriage" will never be undone.
Not as long as the Democrat party has their way. But that's the point. That's why I won't vote for that party.
 
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stray bullet

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Not as long as the Democrat party has their way. But that's the point. That's why I won't vote for that party.

I vote for the Republican party that destroys the middle class, the environment, and votes based on the highest payers. But God be praised, they say they are against homosexual marriage and abortion (and they can do nothing about it) so .... yay!!!!! I am a good Catholic. That government party has calculated the whole FREAKING THING.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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I vote for the Republican party that destroys the middle class, the environment, and votes based on the highest payers. But God be praised, they say they are against homosexual marriage and abortion (and they can do nothing about it) so .... yay!!!!! I am a good Catholic. That government party has calculated the whole FREAKING THING.
The Democrat party is all talk when it comes to the poor.

In reality, they help the filthy rich and ensure that people can qualify for welfare.
.
 
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ALoveDivine

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I only care what the Church says about it. And the only thing the Church has said is that Catholics can't be socialists, not even if it's called "moderate socialism".
Brother there is a huge difference between socialism and social democracy. The USSR was socialism, Norway and Denmark are social democracies. Socialism is state ownership of enterprise, social democracy is a regulated market economy working in tandem with a large social safety-net. Bernie Sanders supports social democracy, not socialism. He uses the phrase "democratic socialism" because that is what those parties who advocate social democracy tend to call themselves. It is a matter of vernacular, not of substance. Again, Bernie Sanders is advocating social democracy. The church has condemned socialism, NOT social democracy. In fact, Catholic social teaching seems to mesh very nicely with social democracy.

I hope Bernie Sanders wins. I can't vote for him because he supports legalized abortions, but given that neither party will stop the holocaust of babies in this country anyway, I hope Bernie wins, because he at least will work to end the vast disparity of income in this country which is causing so much human suffering. My support of social democratic theory is as an application of Catholic social teaching to politics. A regulated market economy that takes care of the poor and vulnerable is self-evidently the more just and compassionate economic system when compared to free-market or crony capitalism.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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pssst

you should hate both parties
I've already made a thread where I basically said that I'm not a fan of Donald Trump. There's nothing about him that I like. So if it comes down to a choice between him or the Democrats I might not vote this time.
 
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stray bullet

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I've already made a thread where I basically said that I'm not a fan of Donald Trump. There's nothing about him that I like. So if it comes down to a choice between him or the Democrats I might not vote this time.

He won't win. He's crazy. However, in general the Republicans are funded and groomed by very wealthy groups.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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He won't win. He's crazy. However, in general the Republicans are funded and groomed by very wealthy groups.
So are the Democrat candidates. Obama broke records for how much money he got for each election. He has support from Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, as well as from many other multi-billionaire tycoons. And the richest counties in America were for Obama in both elections as well.
 
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stray bullet

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So are the Democrat candidates. Obama broke records for how much money he got for each election. He has support from Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, as well as from many other multi-billionaire tycoons. And the richest counties in America were for Obama in both elections as well.

The issue not the money or their stated goals, but what do their policies do.
 
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