Delusion?

[Marilyn C]

[QUOTE="Bible2+, post: 71656022, member: 380638"[/QUOTE]

Hi Bible2,

Ever thought of writing movie scripts? Did enjoy your take on the scenario in the trib.

Marilyn.

 

[Alithis]

I consider all popes to be apostate.
They are certainly not Gods mouth peice

That could be right.

The beast which comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the seven horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding seven positions of power at the same time (compare Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say he is Jesus. But he won't say he's Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ, and will deny Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

--

If a secretly apostate pope does become the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 16:13), adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand he be removed for heresy and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him and elect their own, new pope (or reinstall a former pope who's still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True Pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True Pope" could be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the Third Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they're adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It's only when the Antichrist has completely broken the physical power of the true Church (which consists of all true Christians, whether they're adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future Tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b) and Jesus Christ's Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God won't share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

Strong delusion is antichrist i believe , antichrist does not mean half devil human with horns but a person who replaces Christ and announce to people that he is Christ himself . We know that Satan will declare himself as Jesus and will do miracles , so many people will be deceived by that delusion .

 

[Instrument150]

Lol
Its a reference to “lakeland” or bethal Redding type moves.

I speak critically of that because I was once involved but the Lord brought me out into true repentance and set me free from false spirits.

Good deal.

 

[devin553344]

Has the strong delusion that Paul speaks of in 2 Thessalonians 2 already come?

Are you talking about that it is Mormons in the Temples proclaiming themselves as Gods, with the power Jesus the Christ had, saying what they seal in the temple is sealed in heaven? Being the falling away and the son of perdition?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I would say it has come although i'm not sure if I should list what they are might offend some. But yes it's here.

 

[amariselle]

Topics of interest regarding this could include the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) and the growing Ecumenism between not only the Catholic Church and Protestant/Evangelical denominations, but among all world religions. (A unity Pope Francis in particular has done much to further, although Pope John Paul II was also very ecumenical, and much of what Pope Francis is doing is built on what Pope John Paul II accomplished during his time as Pope).

 

[HeLeadethMe]

This is what I believe the Lord has given me to understand: that the strong delusion as such will particularly centre around the antichrist and the third temple where he will sit proclaiming himself God. Counterfeit miracles will be involved in the delusion too, as we know from 2 Thess. 2. The false prophets have already been preparing the hearts of the people for it, of which one will arise and be a false witness pointing the world to the antichrist/son of perdition when he is revealed. Do not rejoice when the third temple is built.......it is going to have a very strong pull on people's hearts, this the Lord allowed me to see and feel it........we must remember that we are the temple of God now, a temple built not with human hands.

As much as I love the Jewish people and long for their salvation......they are still away from the Lord and have to pay twice for their sins (rejecting Christ) before receiving the double portion of comfort (Holy Spirit) in the end. Jerusalem will be attacked again as we understand from prophecy. But before that, unbelieving Israel is going to be in the delusion too, sadly. From what i understand, both apostate church and Israel are part of mystery Babylon, mother of harlots, which the beast will deceive and use for a while, but when he is done using her, he will then turn on her.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Topics of interest regarding this could include the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) and the growing Ecumenism between not only the Catholic Church and Protestant/Evangelical denominations, but among all world religions. (A unity Pope Francis in particular has done much to further, although Pope John Paul II was also very ecumenical, and much of what Pope Francis is doing is built on what Pope John Paul II accomplished during his time as Pope).

Amen.......the interfaith movement is what the strong delusion is all about....false unity of world peace between all faiths and religions. Unfortunately even the Jews who are in charge of preparations for the third temple plan on using it to usher in the "messiah" and unity of all faiths...world peace. Neither they nor the erring church will know that the beast and antichrist will just be using them and deceiving them for his own gain and power. By peace......he will destroy many. False peace.

As we know, antichrist comes before the real return of Christ.......and the rapture will not occur until some time AFTER the son of perdition is revealed.

 

[Bible2+]

Alithis said in post #22:

I consider all popes to be apostate.

Note that nothing requires that.

Also, note that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms Jesus is the Christ, while the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms Jesus is the Son of God, while the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, while the Antichrist will say he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms Lucifer (Satan) is evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

 

[Bible2+]

Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 said in post #23:

Strong delusion is antichrist i believe , antichrist does not mean half devil human with horns but a person who replaces Christ and announce to people that he is Christ himself .

Note that "anti"-Christ can simply mean anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

And note nothing requires the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (that is, the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the Tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the Tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers they can keep for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 said in post #23:

We know that Satan will declare himself as Jesus and will do miracles , so many people will be deceived by that delusion .

Note that when Satan (Lucifer, the dragon) is cast down to the earth permanently at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 12:9,12), he won't claim to be "Jesus" Christ, just as the separate Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast", the man of sin: 2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) won't claim that Lucifer (or claim that he, the Antichrist) is "Jesus" Christ. For "anti"-Christ means someone who denies Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).

 

[Bible2+]

HeLeadethMe said in post #28:

. . . we must remember that we are the temple of God now . . .

Note that while the Church as a whole is indeed a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexisted with the literal, 2nd temple building which was in Jerusalem in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), just as the Church coexisted, and still coexists today, with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus Christ's individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the Church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd, earthly, literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21), and even at the time of the early Church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). This is why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in His temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old Covenant Mosaic law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God, because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6), because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus Christ and His once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

HeLeadethMe said in post #28:

. . . we must remember that we are the temple of God now, a temple built not with human hands.

Regarding "a temple built not with human hands", note that Acts 7:48-50 and Acts 17:24 refer back to the principle of Isaiah 66:1-2a, which was true even at the time of Solomon's temple (2 Chronicles 2:6). It means the Creator God YHWH is too big to dwell only in temples made with hands. For it isn't contradicting God did dwell in Solomon's temple (1 Kings 8:11). And then God dwelt in the 2nd Jewish temple (Matthew 23:21), in which the Church continued to worship God even after Jesus Christ's sacrificial death for our sins and His physical resurrection (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17). And so nothing requires God won't also dwell in the 3rd Jewish temple which will be built in Jerusalem during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). And God could also dwell in the 4th temple which will be built in Jerusalem during the future Millennium (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13), which won't begin until after Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

 

[Erik Nelson]

Doesn't 2 Thess 2 = 1 Thess 5 ?

the "deluding influence" Deceiving many into following the "man of lawlessness, the son of destruction (Greek apoleia ~= Apollyon the destroyer of Rev 9:11)" who will, according to Prophetic scheduling, claim from somewhere on earth to be the "One True Actual Factual God in heaven"... all on the Biblical eve of Judgement Day...

which "day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."


I offer that (one major element of) the deluding influence will be (historicist) / is now (preterist) a false sense of security. People will, as it were, think that the "coast is clear", that the "whole fabric of space-time" is just a "quiet park for them to romp around in". Then, at some point of maximum psychological "shock", they will all be "surprised" to find out that the Lord of heaven has Arrived, to destroy earth with fire (Rev 20:9 = 2 Pet 3:10).

( The fact that so many today are mocked & jeered for feeling "insecure" shows just how overly "secure" the mockers & jeerers feel. A preterist could construe the same as further evidence for the preterist view, e.g. most of Revelations has already come to pass, and we now live in the End Times after the Millennium (Rev 20:7-9), when the Prophetically scheduled "deluding influence" will Deceive many into feeling a strong sense of "peace & safety". If so, then they who feel so "immune to it all" and "above it all" will eventually notice that the Lord of heaven is above all of space and the earth therein... even if, until then, they get no reality checks from humans on earth, but only eventually from heaven alone. )

 

[Hal A Peno]

cgb

 

[Alithis]

Show me where this unity of denominations is found and associated with the false prophet.

There is no such thing as the apostate church. This apostasy is an end-time event associated with the man of sin and his followers and nothing else. It has NOTHING to do with Christians or the Church.

A false prophet has a following.

 

[Hal A Peno]

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[Hal A Peno]

v jm

 

[Alithis]

I've been asking for years where this 'interfaith movement of world peace' is found in our bibles and not one person has been able to show me where?

I think it's just terminologypeople use.
It speaks of the great falling away where the love of many (for God) will become cold. They will turn to doctrines that tickle thier ears and not love the truth.
And in thier rejection of the truth God will send them great delusion.

So its not speaking of the world but the church in bulk will fall away and follow a lie.
Just like we are seeing today

 

[Hal A Peno]

hjtgj

 

[Erik Nelson]

Show me where this unity of denominations is found and associated with the false prophet.

There is no such thing as the apostate church. This apostasy is an end-time event associated with the man of sin and his followers and nothing else. It has NOTHING to do with Christians or the Church.

Well, "never say never", the End Times will (according to Scripture) be full of lies, trickery & Deceit...

However I understand that that main sense of "unity" will (according to Scripture) be the global unity of "Gog & Magog" spiritually animated as an essentially unified "anti-Christian" movement