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[FreeGrace2]

I requested verses to support OH's view on repentance.

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3. <-- So if I sin again, I must repent again. Basically all the verses on repentence are the same: scripture teaches that sin requires repentence, so falling back into sin means returning to repentence.

Please exegete the verse to show that this repenting must be on-going. Furthermore, I gave a number of verses on how one receives eternal life. Please don't ignore them.

I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged. 2 Cor 12:21 So obviously the Corinthians fell back into sin and Paul was rebuking them for not repenting.

But there is NO MENTION or warning of loss of salvation. In fact, Paul was clear about the promised and guaranteed sealing with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption.

What does the phrase "a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession" mean to you?

"who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph 1:14

Also, the phrase "sealed for the day of redemption" mean to you?

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


So, in 2 verses, we learn that our sealing is guaranteed, and for the day of redemption.

Please exegete both verses to show that neither verse can mean eternal security. Not just your opinion, but actually exegete the verses, please.

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth. 2 Tim 2:24-25 Here is another example of believers whom God requires to come into repentance.

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev 2:5 This verse is talking about believers (remember the things you did at first, they have a lampstand...)

Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Revelation 2:16 This is talking to believers.

Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. Rev 3:3 This is talking to believers.

OK, now we need to see what your definition and understanding of what "repentance" means and is.

 

[Meowzltov]

Please exegete the verse to show that this repenting must be on-going. Furthermore, I gave a number of verses on how one receives eternal life. Please don't ignore them.

Luke 13:3 is ongoing because sinning is ongoing.

 

[Meowzltov]

But there is NO MENTION or warning of loss of salvation.

Let's deal with this ONE STEP AT A TIME. Do you concede that repentance is mandatory after we become Christians?

 

[Jesus First]

I'd rather believe what Paul wrote:

Rom 4:22-24 - 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

Verse 24 states, "if we believe", not "have believed". Imputation is not a one-time act so one can optionally live in the wages of sin as you believe. God chose to write His word using grammar. Grammar can only be understood correctly when established rules of grammar are followed. The end result of allowing your theology to drive the interpretation of Scripture is like driving on the wrong side of the road.

People should know what you believe and promote with your posts. "FreeGrace2" does not believe in repenting from sins to be saved. You don't believe that endurance is required. Your "you can have Jesus and your sin gospel" makes me sick.

In Christ!

 

[Jesus First]

Let's deal with this ONE STEP AT A TIME. Do you concede that repentance is mandatory after we become Christians?

His version of repentance is a "change of mind" that does not involve turning from sin to be saved.

 

[Jesus First]

Your abuse of the present tense is fallacious on its face. When teaching the parable of the soils, Jesus used the present tense for believed regarding the second soil, and then added "for a while". So, present tense doesn't mean indefinitely.

No, don't jump to a parable. You prove to me that the word "believe" is not an ongoing action in Ephesians 1:19. It is present tense participle. So prove that I'm wrong or admit your error.

I have not claimed on any post that the present tense verb means a progressive action every time it's used. I have commented on selective verbs. So stop spreading falsehood. We all will stand before the Judge very soon. We are all accountable beginning with myself.

There are categories of use for Koine Greek verbs. I suggest you read the book, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics. The author (Wallace) starts with two broad categories of use for the Greek present tense. They are "wide" and "narrow bands". These two general categories are further broken down into categories of use.

In Christ!

 

[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[Jesus First]

Real repentance is not merely a "change of mind" in which there isn't any evidence of this change of mind with a departure from iniquity. Such a change of mind isn't really a change of mind at all, but is more like double-mindedness if anything. That is why I call it the have your cake and eat it too gospel.

You are correct. It is a false gospel when the "change of mind" does not result in a change of behavior and regret for sin. Real faith in Jesus Christ results in action.

In Christ!

 

[True Science]

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[brotherjerry]

Sinning does not have to be ongoing. And if it is, then that is not real salvation either. God is not mocked. What we sow, we reap. We cannot just keep up a constant sin repent sin repent relationship with God, and hope we are on the repent side when we die, and think that we will be saved, get in under the wire, so to speak. The Scriptures describe the Christian walk as one of victory, and following Christ's example, departing from iniquity, and then moving on to perfection. The Scriptures say God can keep us from falling. Thus anyone falling must not have God when they are falling all the time. They are leaving God off to the side and that is why they are falling.

Amen.

 

[brotherjerry]

People should know what you believe and promote with your posts. "FreeGrace2" does not believe in repenting from sins to be saved. You don't believe that endurance is required. Your "you can have Jesus and your sin gospel" makes me sick.

In Christ!

Slow the roll there and lets keep things civil. If we cannot keep our tongue in check when speaking to each other, then what worse can we do to those who are not brothers and sisters in Christ. We should always remember that there are no limits on this forum so "Joe Unsaved" may be reading this as well.

FG2 and other proponents of eternal security do believe in the repentance of sin. But we believe that there is just a one time turning from our sinful ways that is at the point of salvation. We believe that we will still commit sins as the Bible says all do. And we believe that we must ask for forgiveness of those sins. But repentance is not just asking for forgiveness it is a turning away from that sinful nature. And to an eternal security proponent, that has been done if you are truly saved, as you have become a new creature in Christ, experienced a new birth.

And you are correct in that endurance is not required for salvation and eternal life. That is what the Bible indicates. We do believe that those that are saved and have turned from sin towards Christ are the ones that have endured. 1 John 5:4 "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." By having faith and being born of God, we have already overcome this world. We are dead to sin but alive to God (Romans 6:11) because it was the blood of Christ that released us from our sins (Revelations 1:5).

Both eternal security proponents and conditional salvation proponents believe that a person who is saved, or going to be saved must have works to go along with his condition. One places works as something we do because we are saved, the other puts works as something we have to do to ensure we get saved. But both place a strong emphasis on the follower doing works. Both also agree that the follower should not sin. One because it is displeasing to God and ruins our testimony and makes us less like Christ; the other because doing an act of sin may cause you to lose your salvation. But both agree that sinning is a bad thing for a follower. One believes is someone professed to be Christian but continued or later went back to a sinful life, then that person was never saved in the first place. The other believes that person has lost their salvation.

So let me ask this. If one has to work in order to get saved, how does a person who believes that address Ephesians 2? As well as several other verses that speak against works?
So let me also ask this. If performing a sinful act will cause you to lose your salvation, what acts can cause this? Is there a list of salvation lost acts? Or a certain number of acts to perform? Is there some sort of point system and different sins have different points? Where are these answers in the Bible so that we may all know the scale to follow for our salvation? Oh and if you lose your salvation because of something you did, what does the Bible say you have to do in order to get it back?
So let me ask this. If a person who says they were saved, continued in or went back to a sinful life, and their salvation was lost. How do they get it back again? Does God cut them off at that point? If being saved is described as being born again, becoming a new creature, where in the Bible does it describe being born again again, as in being born in the flesh all over again and dying in the spirit? Where in the Bible does it describe no longer being the new creature in Christ, but going back to the old creature? And if the Bible says that we are dead to sin, where in the Bible does it say we can become dead to Spirit but alive Sin?

These are some of the questions I have asked several on this forum and have received no Biblical answers for any of them. They are logical questions, and honest questions.

 

[True Science]

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