[deleted]

[FreeGrace2]

The same place?

No, Samuel didn't say "the same place". He specifically said "with me". So, the question is, where was Samuel after death? That's where Saul was going.

Sheol ok is the abode of the dead and it was to that which Samuel was referring, the Saul would die and join him in the abode of the dead.

Are you suggesting that Saul went to torments, which was in sheol?

That place hell, was however split into two portions, the fiery torments and the paradise which was Abraham's bosum.

Where did Samuel go when he died? Abraham's bosom, not torments. And Samuel told Saul that he would be with him. That is specific, not general.

You can not say Saul went to paradise

Why not? Samuel told Saul that he would be with him. If Saul wasn't going to join Samuel in Paradise (Abraham's bosom) he would have made that clear and NOT have said that he would JOIN him.

Doesn't "join" someone mean to be WITH someone? Of course it does.

Saul was rejected, Samuel was accepted. Saul murdered the priests of the Lord.

Yes, Saul was rejected as king of Israel, which is why the LORD killed him, per 1 Chron 10:13,14. And Saul then joined Samuel.

 

[FreeGrace2]

A change takes place in Saul after that Samuel tells Saul he has done evil in the sight of the Lord,

16 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Be quiet! And I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night.”

And he said to him, “Speak on.”

17 So Samuel said, “When you were little in your own eyes, were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the Lord anoint you king over Israel? 18 Now the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed.’ 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the Lord?”

Saul has done evil, has not obeyed God's clear directive, Saul was covetous of the spoil, rather than obey God' command to utterly destroy all of it, God says Saul has done evil in the sight of the Lord, there is something very very wrong with Saul here.

He goes from desiring to worship the Lord my God, in a personal relationship, to telling Samuel, let's go worship the Lord your God. Saul desired the praise and adulation of the people MORE than the Lord God as Saul says in v30.
Saul has a problem with repentance, thinking he knows what is best for Israel instead of God. Saul is Proud and will not obey the Lord. Later on Saul starts setting up statues of himself and God sends evil spirits to plague Saul's mind..

27 And as Samuel turned around to go away, Saul seized the edge of his robe, and it tore.28 So Samuel said to him, “The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor relent. For He is not a man, that He should relent.”

30 Then he said, “I have sinned; yet honor me now, please, before the elders of my people and before Israel, and return with me, that I may worship the Lord your God.” 31 So Samuel turned back after Saul, and Saul worshiped the Lord.

And yet, the LORD killed him for his disobedience, per 1 Chron 10:13,14.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe that He makes a covenant with us AND seals is with the Holy Spirit as our guarantee of being one of Christ's Own and co-heirs to the Father.

Rom 8:17a says we are heirs of God, and co-heirs with Christ, IF INDEED, we suffer with Him.

It says that the Holy Spirit with our own spirit confirms that we ate Christ's

Another confirmation of eternal security.

 

[sdowney717]

And yet, the LORD killed him for his disobedience, per 1 Chron 10:13,14.

No proof that Saul went to heaven, just pointing out that 'with me' in a vision is not a clear unambiguous word.
It is like creating a teaching regarding something in Revelations and saying it is written in stone so it must be, as if anyone can know until the events unfold. With me is the place where the dead go when the physically die, Samuel is just telling Saul that Saul is going to die.

Reading this does not sound like a salvation experience does it.
1 Samuel 28:16New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy?

 

[FreeGrace2]

The context does not support your assertion that "everyone who has believed" [your quote] has this seal. You should allow the Bible in context to define your theology. Paul is writing to present tense believers and not making a blanket statement as your suppositions (I say this respectfully) require to validate your theology which you force on the Holy Scriptures.

We know that all who believe are given the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised this in John 14. And Jesus said that He would be with us FOREVER. All believers receive the Holy Spirit. There is no evidence that certain believers don't receive the Holy Spirit. So your assumption is in error and unsupported by Scripture.

Please listen to God's Word based on the context and grammar.

Yes, we ALL need to do this.

Because context is so important in Biblical interpretation, the question should be asked, who were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit?(Ephesians 1:13). Is Paul making a blanket statement to describe every one who has ever believed (as "FreeGrace2" wrongly teaches) or is it qualified to those in current faith?

Your abuse of the present tense is fallacious on its face. When teaching the parable of the soils, Jesus used the present tense for believed regarding the second soil, and then added "for a while". So, present tense doesn't mean indefinitely.

Also, Paul used the aorist tense in Acts 16:31 and Rom 10:10 regarding salvation, so your premise is incorrect.

btw, let's consider the epistle to the Galatians. In ch 1 the letter is addressed to 'the churches of Galatia'. That means all believers. Then he says this in v.6 "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel". Not a very good thing, wouldn't you agree?

Then in ch 3 he asks how they received the Spirit. In v.2 and 5 he says this: 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So, within the context of the letter, which was written to the churches, meaning believers, without the artificial idea of "faithful only", Paul notes that they received the Spirit. So they all have been sealed with the Spirit, just like the believers in Ephesus.

There is no reason to think that only faithful believers receive or are sealed with the Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I personally have difficulty believing anything the witch said as absolute truth.

The Bible quotes what she said. And she didn't predict anything. She only noted that Samuel appeared.

Just because she correctly predicted that Saul and his sons would die doesn't validate her entire account in my opinion. Saul feared for his life and because of this consulted with a demonic woman.

He didn't predict anything. It was Samuel who told Saul that he would be with him the next day. Please read the text. 1 Sam 28.

Should we validate her entire account, would this not indicate that they have power to call up dead saints and issue truths?
In Christ!

She gave no account. As far as "power", it was God who sent Samuel back. Notice in the text that when Samuel appeared, she screamed. Why? Because she knew that the dead do not come back in seances. It's fake. What may appear would be demons who appear and sound like the one supposedly being called up. The reason God forbid mediums in the land is because all of it is demonism.

Any believer who gets mixed up in seances is just asking for discipline from God. It's a demon communion table. Evil. Which is why God forbade it. But God used one to give Saul a message from Samuel.

Please don't be so naive as to think that mediums have any power to call up the dead. They are being used by demons, or they are just fakers. Either way, God condemns this activity. And God killed Saul for going to a medium after being commanded to rid the land of them. 1 Chron 10:13-14.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No proof that Saul went to heaven, just pointing out that 'with me' in a vision is not a clear unambiguous word.

How is that "not clear", or is "ambiguous"?? For Samuel to say "you will be with me" is real clear. Saul would be joining Samuel the next day, which is when Saul died.

 

[sdowney717]

How is that "not clear", or is "ambiguous"?? For Samuel to say "you will be with me" is real clear. Saul would be joining Samuel the next day, which is when Saul died.

Look up in scripture happens to the enemies of the LORD, they are destroyed.

5 O Lord, how great are Your works!
Your thoughts are very deep.
6 A senseless man does not know,
Nor does a fool understand this.
7 When the wicked spring up like grass,
And when all the workers of iniquity flourish,
It is that they may be destroyed forever.

8 But You, Lord, are on high forevermore.
9 For behold, Your enemies, O Lord,
For behold, Your enemies shall perish;
All the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

Saul was a worker of iniquity and their destiny is they will be destroyed forever. that is not ambiguous, an eternal destruction. Workers of evil and iniquities God calls wicked and are God's enemies.

 

[sdowney717]

Psalm 37:20New King James Version (NKJV)
20 But the wicked shall perish;
And the enemies of the Lord,
Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish.
Into smoke they shall vanish away.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Look up in scripture happens to the enemies of the LORD, they are destroyed.

5 O Lord, how great are Your works!
Your thoughts are very deep.
6 A senseless man does not know,
Nor does a fool understand this.
7 When the wicked spring up like grass,
And when all the workers of iniquity flourish,
It is that they may be destroyed forever.

8 But You, Lord, are on high forevermore.
9 For behold, Your enemies, O Lord,
For behold, Your enemies shall perish;
All the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

Saul was a worker of iniquity and their destiny is they will be destroyed forever. that is not ambiguous, an eternal destruction. Workers of evil and iniquities God calls wicked and are God's enemies.

Let's not forget that it was God's will that Saul be on the throne. Even King David who was persecuted by Saul over and over, paid his respects to Saul because God put him there.

Therefore David took hold of his own clothes and tore them, and so did all the men who were with him. And they mourned and wept and fasted until evening for Saul and for Jonathan his son, for the people of the Lord and for the house of Israel, because they had fallen by the sword.

Then David said to the young man who told him, "Where are you from?" And he answered, "I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite." So David said to him, "How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the Lord's anointed?" Then David called one of the young men and said, "Go near, and execute him!" And he struck him so that he died. So David said to him, "Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, 'I have killed the Lord's anointed.' "

Let's keep this on topic about Saul specifically.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Look up in scripture happens to the enemies of the LORD, they are destroyed.

5 O Lord, how great are Your works!
Your thoughts are very deep.
6 A senseless man does not know,
Nor does a fool understand this.
7 When the wicked spring up like grass,
And when all the workers of iniquity flourish,
It is that they may be destroyed forever.

8 But You, Lord, are on high forevermore.
9 For behold, Your enemies, O Lord,
For behold, Your enemies shall perish;
All the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

Saul was a worker of iniquity and their destiny is they will be destroyed forever. that is not ambiguous, an eternal destruction. Workers of evil and iniquities God calls wicked and are God's enemies.

You really need to study the Word more closely and not just shoot out verses out of context.

That does not help the cause at all.

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[ToBeLoved]

The whole this is spiritual so you can't understand it thing is an easy way to escape from and justify the fact that something doesn't make logical sense.

Really? Because the Bible tells us the same thing.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15
which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[sdowney717]

Let's not forget that it was God's will that Saul be on the throne. Even King David who was persecuted by Saul over and over, paid his respects to Saul because God put him there.

Therefore David took hold of his own clothes and tore them, and so did all the men who were with him. And they mourned and wept and fasted until evening for Saul and for Jonathan his son, for the people of the Lord and for the house of Israel, because they had fallen by the sword.

Then David said to the young man who told him, "Where are you from?" And he answered, "I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite." So David said to him, "How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the Lord's anointed?" Then David called one of the young men and said, "Go near, and execute him!" And he struck him so that he died. So David said to him, "Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, 'I have killed the Lord's anointed.' "

Let's keep this on topic about Saul specifically.

David says Saul was anointed king, simply means David has respect for what God is doing for Israel against the Philistines in setting up a king, that is God choosing Saul to be king. So David would not lay a hand on Saul, David though knew the Lord would be the one to destroy Saul, not him. God put Saul in power, and God would be the one to remove Saul from power, as the prophets said.

I am not the only one to say Saul's heart was wicked. Study the scripture to see all the evil Saul did.
David when he sinned repented, Saul's heart is proud and never do we see Saul repenting. Saul becomes at times sorrowful but Saul does not repent. Saul goes from bad to worse. Saul was wicked, and God says Saul is His enemy through Samuel's prophecy.
http://newcovenantliving.blogspot.com/2010/09/wicked-heart-of-king-saul.html

Let's just read it again
1 Samuel 28:16New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy?

The writer here also shows Saul was not repenting of the evil he did.
https://bible.org/seriespage/12-real-repentance-2-samuel-121-13

 

[True Science]

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[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[sdowney717]

Another writer tells us of Saul's false repentance.
http://cryingoutforjustice.com/2012/02/02/saul-a-case-study-in-false-repentance-by-jeff-crippen/

 

[sdowney717]

Apparently according to the proponents of the Lie, everyone's heart is desperately wicked. Even the saved, which is why we need the fake forensic "imputed righteousness of Christ." We're all filthy rags it seems, every last human.

What do you mean by the
'fake forensic "imputed righteousness of Christ."'??

 

[True Science]

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