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[sdowney717]

Great, we can all agree with Saul's false repentance. But before Saul sinned after being called by God, after being anointed, show where Saul wasn't then right with God. And show where Saul sinned and was hypocrite at this time and before his calling.

God is showing mercy and kindness to Saul even though God knows what evil Saul is going to do in the future. But at some point after adding sins to sins with no repentance, God decrees a judgement. Evil men treasure up for themselves wrath even after God shows them kindness. Really this just proves they are fallen evil men, and that God is good, even giving to fallen evil men a chance to repent.

Paul say the same idea in Romans 2
3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

God teaches us that the evil men do, they can not escape His judgement. Shows that unless the Lord changes the hearts of evil men, even with God showing to them kindness they persist in their evil ways. Described above are as always two types of men, the evil and the good. The evil ones can not do anything good, while the good ones continue to seek after glory, honor, eternal life by patient continuance seeking God. Which really is the perseverance of the saints.
Why are some seeking God while others seeking sin? The ones who seek after God is because God sought and called and transformed them by shining HIS light into their hearts. Those God did not shine His light into their hearts remain in the darkness as 2 Cor 4 teaches us.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Look up in scripture happens to the enemies of the LORD, they are destroyed.

In the context, the destruction is physical, not eternal. Just as God killed Saul physically for consulting a medium.

5 O Lord, how great are Your works!
Your thoughts are very deep.
6 A senseless man does not know,
Nor does a fool understand this.
7 When the wicked spring up like grass,
And when all the workers of iniquity flourish,
It is that they may be destroyed forever.

8 But You, Lord, are on high forevermore.
9 For behold, Your enemies, O Lord,
For behold, Your enemies shall perish;
All the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

Saul was a worker of iniquity and their destiny is they will be destroyed forever. that is not ambiguous, an eternal destruction. Workers of evil and iniquities God calls wicked and are God's enemies.

Yes, Saul was a worker of iniquity, which is why God killed him. 1 Chron 10:13,14.

As far as being "destroyed forever", Saul's reign ended when he died.

Bottom line: Saul joined Samuel when he died physically. So Saul is where Samuel is currently.

 

[True Science]

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[FreeGrace2]

The writer here also shows Saul was not repenting of the evil he did.
https://bible.org/seriespage/12-real-repentance-2-samuel-121-13

Regardless, Saul is now where Samuel is.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Apparently according to the proponents of the Lie, everyone's heart is desperately wicked. Even the saved, which is why we need the fake forensic "imputed righteousness of Christ." We're all filthy rags it seems, every last human.

What is meant by "the fake forensic 'imputed righteousness of Christ' "? This suggests that our imputed righteousness is somehow fake. How so?

 

[True Science]

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[FreeGrace2]

Great, we can all agree with Saul's false repentance. But before Saul sinned after being called by God, after being anointed, show where Saul wasn't then right with God. And show where Saul sinned and was hypocrite at this time and before his calling.

None of this is relevant. We know that Samuel told Saul that he would be with him the next day, which is when he died. So we know that regardless of whether Saul repented of his sin of consulting a medium, he did join Samuel the next day.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are also a worker of iniquity just like Saul. Unless you can prove to me you are not working iniquity in your life. You are not any different than Saul in this respect. Anyone who WORKS iniquity is a WORKER of iniquity.

So are you, then, if you are a human being. What is your point here?

We're all sinners. So what? Those who have trusted in Christ for eternal life have been saved, regenerated, born again, given eternal life, and justified. That is my point.

 

[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[Meowzltov]

And there are some seals that cannot be broken. And there is evidence to suggest that the seals mentioned that God does, cannot be broken, but the seals that men do, can be. At least in reference to the Bible.

Seals that God does, can be broken.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Apparently according to the proponents of the Lie, everyone's heart is desperately wicked. Even the saved, which is why we need the fake forensic "imputed righteousness of Christ." We're all filthy rags it seems, every last human.

What are you talking about 'fake forensic'?

Are you trying to make sense? or not?

If you are going to communicate you should seek to be understood. I don't understand.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Imputed Righteousness of Christ is a false doctrine is what I am saying.

I'd rather believe what Paul wrote:

Rom 4:22-24 - 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes I am. But not because I am human. But because I still sin. I haven't had a true 100% repentance yet.

Please cite Scripture to support your view on repentance.

I have to complete my process of repentance.

I'd love to see some Scripture.

Merely trusting in Christ for eternal life won't save you.

It is very obvious (painfully so) that you are unfamiliar with what Scripture says:
John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

If you do not walk as he walked, you will not be saved.

Jesus, as God, was perfect. No human can achieve perfection. Ever. Believers will be sinless only in the next life, that which we call eternity.

No one will. We are called to be holy as he is holy, not merely have the name and label of that. And this is not optional.

Please back up this very extreme view from Scripture. That salvation is only for those who are as holy as Jesus was.

Your view is quite wrong.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Seals that God does, can be broken.

So, please show us where in Scripture that the sealing with the Holy Spirit can be broken, or has been. As in an example.

 

[brotherjerry]

Seals that God does, can be broken.

Really?

There are 3 different seals talked about in the Bible.
1) tamper seals. These are the seals you think of when someone puts a dot of wax on a document. It is designed primarily to indicate if someone tampered with the document before the intended recipient were to read it. These can be easily broken and are not designed to keep something in.
Nehemiah 9:38, Nehemiah 10:1, Jeremiah 32:10, Jeremiah 32:11, Daniel 6:17,Matthew 27:66, Revelations 5
Let's note in Revelations 5:2 a strong angel proclaims "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" Of course no one there was...but an elder says in verse 5 "behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals." So these seals that God has done could be broken by no one other than God.

2) Branding. This is a mark, a symbol, some identifier. This too could be used as part of a tamper seal, often the wax on the documents would be stamped with the kings ring or something similar. This signified that what was sealed belonged to the king, or was sealed up by the king and could only be opened by the king or the recipient of the message. We see this quite a bit in the Bible and this sort of sealing cannot be broken.
Exodus 28:21, 1 Kings 21:8,Nehemiah 9:38,Nehemia 10:1, Esther 8:8;10, Daniel 6:17, Revelations 7:2
Let's take a closer look at some of these in the New Testament.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness"
If we belong to the Lord and we are HIS bondservants...how can we then become servants of something else? The Bible says we cannot serve two masters.
Revelations 7:3 saying "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."

3) closed up. This is like putting something in Tupperware. Like you are sealing a Ziploc bag. This is closing something up to protect it, to keep it from getting wet, or molding, spoiling. Or even simply to separate something. We seal pets up in pet carriers going to the vet to keep them separated from the other pets, in case they fight or something. It can be used as a means to more easily control something...IE the pets in a pet carrier.
Deuteronomy 32:34, Job 14:17, Job 41:15
Some more New Testament references
Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Key is "sealed in" to signify that we are sealed up in something...that something is Him, God.
When we look at this type of sealing we think that God is sealing us up for protection, which is supported by the Bible.
Psalm 121:7 The lord will protect you from all evil; He will keep your soul
John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
1 John 5:18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
We get a pretty clear picture that if God seals us up, then God protects us.

There are a couple of NT verses that are a little ambiguous when concerning being sealed. Such as Ephesians 4:30 and 2 Corinthians 1:22. However, their ambiguity only goes to definition 2 or 3, of which you are marked which is permanent of you are sealed up under God's protection. Both of which reflect a permanent position in Christ.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Really?

There are 3 different seals talked about in the Bible.
1) tamper seals. These are the seals you think of when someone puts a dot of wax on a document. It is designed primarily to indicate if someone tampered with the document before the intended recipient were to read it. These can be easily broken and are not designed to keep something in.
Nehemiah 9:38, Nehemiah 10:1, Jeremiah 32:10, Jeremiah 32:11, Daniel 6:17,Matthew 27:66, Revelations 5
Let's note in Revelations 5:2 a strong angel proclaims "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" Of course no one there was...but an elder says in verse 5 "behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals." So these seals that God has done could be broken by no one other than God.

2) Branding. This is a mark, a symbol, some identifier. This too could be used as part of a tamper seal, often the wax on the documents would be stamped with the kings ring or something similar. This signified that what was sealed belonged to the king, or was sealed up by the king and could only be opened by the king or the recipient of the message. We see this quite a bit in the Bible and this sort of sealing cannot be broken.
Exodus 28:21, 1 Kings 21:8,Nehemiah 9:38,Nehemia 10:1, Esther 8:8;10, Daniel 6:17, Revelations 7:2
Let's take a closer look at some of these in the New Testament.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness"
If we belong to the Lord and we are HIS bondservants...how can we then become servants of something else? The Bible says we cannot serve two masters.
Revelations 7:3 saying "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."

3) closed up. This is like putting something in Tupperware. Like you are sealing a Ziploc bag. This is closing something up to protect it, to keep it from getting wet, or molding, spoiling. Or even simply to separate something. We seal pets up in pet carriers going to the vet to keep them separated from the other pets, in case they fight or something. It can be used as a means to more easily control something...IE the pets in a pet carrier.
Deuteronomy 32:34, Job 14:17, Job 41:15
Some more New Testament references
Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Key is "sealed in" to signify that we are sealed up in something...that something is Him, God.
When we look at this type of sealing we think that God is sealing us up for protection, which is supported by the Bible.
Psalm 121:7 The lord will protect you from all evil; He will keep your soul
John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
1 John 5:18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
We get a pretty clear picture that if God seals us up, then God protects us.

There are a couple of NT verses that are a little ambiguous when concerning being sealed. Such as Ephesians 4:30 and 2 Corinthians 1:22. However, their ambiguity only goes to definition 2 or 3, of which you are marked which is permanent of you are sealed up under God's protection. Both of which reflect a permanent position in Christ.

brotherjerry:

Romans 8.38-39 is such a strong promise that it's hard to see how anyone can believe that one can be saved today and lost tomorrow.

PS: Re. the bondservant thing, a lot of ppl don't realize that ear piercing - and for men, too - was part of it! (I certainly don't have a problem with the practice.)

 

[Meowzltov]

Please cite Scripture to support your view on repentance.

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3. <-- So if I sin again, I must repent again. Basically all the verses on repentence are the same: scripture teaches that sin requires repentence, so falling back into sin means returning to repentence.

I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged. 2 Cor 12:21 So obviously the Corinthians fell back into sin and Paul was rebuking them for not repenting.

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth. 2 Tim 2:24-25 Here is another example of believers whom God requires to come into repentance.

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev 2:5 This verse is talking about believers (remember the things you did at first, they have a lampstand...)

Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Revelation 2:16 This is talking to believers.

Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. Rev 3:3 This is talking to believers.