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Defunding Planned Parenthood

grandvizier1006

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Ok, I know everybody here either dislikes abortion or sees it as useful or whatever. But I have a question regarding these folks...

1. is it right for a government to find what is essentially a private business like that solely on the basis of the service it provides? given that abortion is legal, does the government have the obligation to fund Planned Parenthood? Is that like "upholding the law" or something?

2. isn't Planned Parenthood the only company that gives abortions? doesn't that make it a monopoly? how is that legal?
 
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MoonlessNight

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They'd like you to think it's not about politics, but it IS. Only 3 percent of the funding goes towards abortion. So if the de-funding passes, the other 97 percent that goes towards counseling and women's health will also go under. That would be a rotten shame!

Not even Planned Parenthood claims that they only spend 3 percent of their funding on abortions. They claim that 3% of their services are abortions, but that is of course not the same thing. The cost of an abortion and the cost of a condom are hardly the same.

It's not like Planned Parenthood is encouraging abortions for the sake of research. In fact abortion is always the LAST option and the women are counseled with that in mind.

As you can see in my previous post (or rather a post I made a while ago which is linked therein), 96% of the services that Planned Parenthood provides to pregnant women are abortions. A pretty high number if they are really doing everything they can to prevent women from having abortions.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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LivingWordUnity

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MoonlessNight

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According to the article:

"Under Colorado law, a fetus is not a 'person' and plaintiff's claims for wrongful death must therefore be dismissed," the hospital argued.

This is a legal claim. Are fetuses considered person under current Colorado law? If not, there is nothing false in this statement nor is it a contradiction with Catholic teaching.

I will be honest here. If this is the argument that the hospital is making, I do not like it (I state this conditionally because news reports often do not represent Catholic organizations in an accurate manner). Even if they are not culpable under the letter of the law, if their lack of care directly lead to the death of the child, then they are culpable for the death. Even though it would be valid legally for them to argue by the definitions of the law, I think that it causes scandal to do so.

But let's be clear: not even the hospital is claiming that fetuses are not people, they are claiming that Colorado law does not recognize them as such. And a statement from a hospital is hardly official Church teaching in any case.
 
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WarriorAngel

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They'd like you to think it's not about politics, but it IS. Only 3 percent of the funding goes towards abortion. So if the de-funding passes, the other 97 percent that goes towards counseling and women's health will also go under. That would be a rotten shame!

It's not like Planned Parenthood is encouraging abortions for the sake of research. In fact abortion is always the LAST option and the women are counseled with that in mind.
Their form of counseling is - ''So you are pregnant - you have 2 weeks to decide to eliminate the tissue to be in the first trimester. O and you say you are Catholic - here is some literature from Catholics for a free choice written by nuns of the church. SO as you can see, it is not against your faith to do this and it is not yet human. Can we schedule this before time passes?"

A rotten shame?
PPF doesnt assist very much in the health of women...in fact contraception is dangerous and the pill can cause strokes or heart attacks.
All contraception has a risk higher than abstinence.
Furthermore - you are overlooking PLANNED parenthood - so the majority of their offering is the planning when you choose to be a parent. IE - contraception choices or oops an abortion.

Perhaps you havent heard about the former workers of PPF who blew the whistle on them? They offer low grade birth control options intended to create an OOPS - so they can offer an abortion.

If there is anything rotten - it is the very core of the existence of PPF.
I have my own gyne who doesnt offer abortions for my health TYVM.

Catholic charities used to take care of women for free too without offering abortions.
Their clinics were offering real health services with real doctors and nurses.

PPF is not good by any means. They dont do gynelogical exams for women - or pap smears - or mammograms. They only offer referrals with only the couple exceptions of their many cities they are in.
 
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Winken

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The vote that failed today was to remove taxpayer funding for abortion and from harvesting and selling baby parts. It simply meant that taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for those grisly procedures. PP would have to come up with $$$$ from private supporters of taking human life and dividing it up.

(Is that terminology about as cold as it can get?)
 
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WarriorAngel

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Ok, I know everybody here either dislikes abortion or sees it as useful or whatever. But I have a question regarding these folks...

1. is it right for a government to find what is essentially a private business like that solely on the basis of the service it provides? given that abortion is legal, does the government have the obligation to fund Planned Parenthood? Is that like "upholding the law" or something?

2. isn't Planned Parenthood the only company that gives abortions? doesn't that make it a monopoly? how is that legal?
1. The child's body is not the woman's body. So it's not the woman's choice to usurp the childs own privacy.
2. No, there are small abortion offices. Many just as bad.. only their practices are other horrible crimes done to children.
Many have been closed due to their crimes.
 
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WarriorAngel

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The vote that failed today was to remove taxpayer funding for abortion and from harvesting and selling baby parts. It simply meant that taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for those grisly procedures. PP would have to come up with $$$$ from private supporters of taking human life and dividing it up.

(Is that terminology about as cold as it can get?)
So ie - nothing changes.
Because women pay for abortions anyway [or they used to] and PPF already makes money from sales of tissues...
Which is prohibitive... and i dont understand.

Another reason democrats are dangerous in office.
 
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frenchdefense

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I don't think I've ever seen a report which defends Planned Parenthood which doesn't get its numbers from either Planned Parenthood itself or the Guttmacher institute.

I bet Marlboro wishes that it had it so good.
Actually the Gottmacker Inititute is the private organization the to which the US Census Bureau outsourced it's reproductive health care statistical keeping.
It's the organization of record for these things.

Do you have something against private orgs doing a better job then the government ?

We've privatized everything else what makes you so upset about this one ?
 
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Kristi1

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The LEFT-WING LIBERALS democrats voted today to keep funding the evil Planned Parenthood!!

Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN DOES NOT CONDONE Abortion PERIOD!!

Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN said: "Thou Shalt NOT KILL" ( Exodus 20:13 KJV )!!
 
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Armoured

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The LEFT-WING LIBERALS democrats voted today to keep funding the evil Planned Parenthood!!

Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN DOES NOT CONDONE Abortion PERIOD!!

Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN said: "Thou Shalt NOT KILL" ( Exodus 20:13 KJV )!!
Oops. Better defund the military, then.
 
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frenchdefense

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Hey we lost another vote today.

I'm shocked.

There are probably still a few reasonable people left on this board and who knows about the lurkers.

This article is an example of why the "pro-life" movement is doing more harm than good.

Yeah, I'm prepared for the usual obscenities:

Oh, Oh, it's alternet

Oh, Oh, you're just a closet pro-abortionist.

Oh,oh, this isn't really representative of the overall population.

So what, no I'm not I just don't tow to the "pro-life" movement's line, and maybe yes, maybe not, it doesn't really matter

This is how the rest of the country see the "pro-life" movement.

This is why we are doomed to failure and we will continue to fail until we decide that "pro-life" means more the anti-abortion and actually tow THAT line.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...iracy-theories-peddled-anti-choice-christians
 
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WarriorAngel

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They did not defund PP, and they never will. Shame on all of you "good Christians" for hating women. Go do something productive and by that I DON'T mean pray.
Actually - it is because women are revered for their part in creation - as well as their nurturing instinct that subjects them when procuring an abortion - to many mental illnesses and sometimes suicide.
Abortion is unnatural. There is a chemical formed in the woman's brain at conception - it is instinctual and natural for a woman to become protective of their young. It is also natural to be afraid - but that passes.
When women have an abortion - they may live a long life of deep regret likely due to an ending that disturbs the chemicals in the brain that causes bonding. Obtain possible scarring from said abortion and be unable to have a child later. Some have hemorrhaged to death.

If you love women - an abortion is the last thing you would want for them.
Some never get over the grief of their choices..

Please do not feign it is loving to want such life long problems for women.
 
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ebia

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There seems to be a cult of narcissism about pregnancy with many young women. They continually put naked pictures of their growing bellies on Facebook. Sometimes they will paint fishbowls with swimming fish or happy faces on their bellies. As someone whose youngest child is in her 20's, all I can think of is "ugh!" There are people with whom you should freely share your growing belly, but Facebook friends are not among them!

They sometimes seem to be enamored of all the attention that they will get, as if the baby is a new fashion accessory or something. I just don't think they have a realistic picture of what parenting is--and with so many small families now, they haven't had much real life experience with babies.

Yeah, babies are great when you're ready and all your cylinders are firing. They are worth waiting for, but if they are born to parents who are children themselves, financially and emotionally unready for the task ahead, they will not only make themselves miserable but make the other party in the equation--their innocent child--miserable as well.

Lock these teenagers in a movie theater for a weekend with some cinema verite of real life parenting--colicky babies crying all night, etc.
It's common here as part of year 11 health and human development, for girls to be provided with a doll that crys etc that they have to look after for a week.
 
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WarriorAngel

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The LEFT-WING LIBERALS democrats voted today to keep funding the evil Planned Parenthood!!

Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN DOES NOT CONDONE Abortion PERIOD!!

Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN said: "Thou Shalt NOT KILL" ( Exodus 20:13 KJV )!!

And we know - by the Old Testament that God said He knew us before He knit us in the womb.

I wonder sometimes - how much more advanced we would be if we allowed the ppl God created in the womb to be scientists, doctors, inventors etc that could have further advanced us to cures from diseases of all kinds.
Im not even sure of the numbers now - but more than all wars put together - we have lost lives.

So i find it offensive ppl think a woman who doesnt know their future plans - and other than giving them a safe place to grow - are in no way the owner of that childs body which is separate and individual...and to be allowed that kind of power to change the [now past] technological advances and strides we may have obtained by now.
 
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lazurm

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Before everyone here rushes to judgement, the fact is that (as far as all the facts can tell to this point) Planned Parenthood was quoted out of context, is highly regulated and observed on many levels by legal regulators, didn't break any laws, and has been the subject of a vile campaign to discredit their operations for reasons having little to do law and more to do with not so hidden agendas that speak more against abortion and birth control and less against any other arguments, despite any official positions to the contrary.

So, unless one can make a case that Planned Parenthood actually broke any law(s), advice as to what should be done with that organization should fall on deaf ears, unless one is willing to put the effort in to having a democratic vote on the subject. As I recall, the great majority of the American public is totally for their activities which, if not allowed, will inevitably lead to unwanted births (read, higher crime rates) and illegal, dangerous abortions (with a history to prove it).

It's one thing to believe an ideology; it's another thing to force it on unwilling subjects who are acting within the framework of the law.

Now, in case anyone here wants to misquote or partially quote another's statements, don't bother. I said my part and, frankly, heard most or all of the counter arguments which are "more of the same".

You don't like the law? Change it. Otherwise, stop acting like a lynch mob and, instead, wait until the true facts of this matter bare their fruit. If anyone in Planned Parenthood did, in fact, break the law, they should be held responsible. But defund the whole organization? That advice only comes from a place that has nothing to do with these allegations and has everything to do with your anti-abortion sentiment and religious beliefs. Justice for criminals who break the law. Doing otherwise is like eliminating the entire gun industry due to some criminals using guns illegally, or eliminating the energy industry because of some illegal polluters, etc.

quote from Congressman Randy Forbes, 4th District, VA, from his newsletter today:
https://mail.aol.com/webmail-std/en-us/suite

"...This is not about politics. This is not about Republicans or Democrats. This is about basic humanity and human dignity. We cannot with one breath argue that an unborn life is “simply tissue,” and with the next breath transfer that tissue as human organs for research."
 
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MoonlessNight

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Note how the debate is framed: declining to renew funding to an organization is treated as the same as fining the organization or otherwise taking legal action against it.

Remember, once you receive government funding you are entitled to it forever, as long as you don't break the law.
 
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Armoured

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Note how the debate is framed: declining to renew funding to an organization is treated as the same as fining the organization or otherwise taking legal action against it.

Remember, once you receive government funding you are entitled to it forever, as long as you don't break the law.
Who's saying that?
 
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