Defunding Planned Parenthood

[WarriorAngel]

So, who's going to provide the non-abortion services PP provides if y'all get your wish of a defunded planned parenthood?

Whoever can receive the grant money.

 

[classicalhero]

So, who's going to provide the non-abortion services PP provides if y'all get your wish of a defunded planned parenthood?

What non abortion services do they provide?

 

[Armoured]

What non abortion services do they provide?

Well gee, maybe you should look into things like that before you condemn an entire organisation, huh?

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I trust what the Bishops have said about Planned Parenthood more than what PP says about itself since PP murders babies for profit. It should be common sense that a murderer can't be trusted to tell the truth. But we live in a morally confused world.

USCCB Fact Sheet: Planned Parenthood Federation of America

• The Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) is the single largest abortion provider in the United States. In 2005 its affiliates performed 264,943 surgical and "medical" (i.e., RU-486) abortions -- a new record, and about 10,000 more abortions than in 2004, at a time when abortions are declining overall.1 PPFA is responsible for 1 in 5 abortions in the U.S.
• While PPFA claims to serve women's "choices," it reports providing prenatal care to just 12,548 women in 2005, and infertility services to only 248. Together these are one-twentieth the number of abortions it performs. For 2005 it reported no adoption referrals (compared to 1,414 the previous year).2
• PPFA takes in enormous revenues: $902.8 million in the year ending June 30, 2006 ($55.8 million more than expenses). Significant revenues are generated by charging $350-$650 per abortion. Over a third of its income, $305.3 million, was from taxpayers' dollars -- 12% more than in the previous year, and another all-time record.3
• PPFA says it wants to reduce abortions, yet advocates unrestricted access to abortion and lobbies and/or files suit against even very modest and widely supported laws that reduce abortions: laws requiring informed consent, a 24-hour waiting period after counseling to think over the decision, parental notification or consent before a minor daughter's abortion, state and federal bans on the gruesome partial-birth abortion procedure, recordkeeping and reporting of abortions, and a ban on transporting minors across state lines for abortions to circumvent a home state's parental involvement law. 4
• "Freedom of choice" does not apply to those who disagree with PPFA. It strongly opposes laws recognizing a right of conscience for doctors and nurses morally opposed to abortion, referring to these dismissively as "refusal clauses." When government has said it will not force health professionals to violate their medical and moral judgment on abortion, PPFA makes the bizarre claim that such a policy "intrudes on private, personal medical decision making." PPFA, a corporate entity, dismisses conscientious objections by hospitals and health care organizations as "the whims of a corporate entity." 5
• PPFA promotes over-the-counter sales of high-dose "emergency contraceptive" (EC) pills, even to minors, although lower-dose birth control pills require a prescription due to health risks.6 PPFA also opposes conscience rights for pharmacists who object to dispensing these drugs due to their abortifacient potential.7 To promote EC use, PPFA affiliates hold "Free EC Days" around the country,8 despite numerous studies showing that EC programs do not reduce unplanned pregnancies or abortions.9
• Another PPFA giveaway is condoms. Consumer Reports ranked two PPFA condom brands dead last (and the only ones rated "poor") among 23 brands tested for strength and reliability, discovering a (presumably unintentional) way to keep condom users coming back for abortions and STD treatment.10
• PPFA practices a very selective form of generosity to the victims of horrible tragedy. After so many lost their lives in the 9/11 terrorist attack, the January 2006 Sago Mine disaster, and Hurricane Katrina, PPFA offered relief to survivors ... in the form of free birth control and abortions.11
• PPFA strongly supports the dangerous abortion drug RU-486, promoted its approval by the FDA, and volunteered to conduct early U.S. drug trials. In one trial the patient nearly bled to death, but the PPFA affiliate did not report this as an "adverse event."12 Young Californians Holly Patterson and Vivian Tran died from toxic poisoning after Planned Parenthood's RU-486 abortions.13 PPFA's promotion of RU-486 continues, despite a medical finding that the risk of death after such abortions, from infection alone, is ten times the risk of death from all causes in surgical abortions at the same stage of pregnancy.14 Some affiliates even flout FDA protocols by giving RU-486 for abortions up to one week later than the time the FDA found such use "safe."15
• PPFA exports its ideology to developing nations, promoting abortion as family planning and even pressing for U.S. taxpayer support of organizations involved in coerced abortion programs abroad. In 1983, the then-current president of PPFA co-authored and signed a notorious International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF) declaration urging affiliates to violate their own countries' laws and perform illegal abortions: "Family Planning Associations and other non-governmental organizations should not use the absence of a law or the existence of an unfavourable law as an excuse for inaction; action outside the law, and even in violation of it, is part of the process of stimulating change."16

Source

 

[Fantine]

The real question is whether Republican lawbreakers (oops, I suppose I meant lawmakers, although they are pretty much just obstructionists most of the time) should resort to blackmailing the federal government.

Our last government shutdown cost $24.1 billion, or $192 million a day, according to Moody's Analytics, as reported by the Washington Post. Planned Parenthood receives $528 million a year (none of which goes towards abortion, just towards the other 96% of Planned Parenthood's programs)

Isn't it unethical to use immoral means (blackmail) to achieve a moral goal? Doesn't harming the ecomomy by $24.1 billion, money which could have been used for roads, or bridges, or education, or nutrition for poor children, constitute immorality?

I see another Oklahoma legislator is behind all this. Without a doubt, they have the worst crop of legislators in the country.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I think the real question is whether we pay attention to the bishops just when we feel like it.

 

[Fantine]

So you would assert that the bishops would endorse the Republicans' defunding the federal government, crippling the economy, and causing great harm in order to prevent $528 million (peanuts) to be spent on Planned Parenthood's services that are unrelated to abortion from being spent?

Let's think of an analogy--if we blow Afghanistan off the map, Muslim women would never be stoned to death for adultery....

Does that make it right?

We should certainly try to prevent Muslim women from being stoned to death in ways that don't create far greater damage.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Here, I have an analogy. Oh wait, I don't have one. I'll just ignore the bishops. Ok then.

 

[pdudgeon]

I wouldn't say useless, they do refer women to charities that give grants for low cost or free mammograms, and they do provide paps and cervical cancer screenings in some of their clinics, often at low or no cost. They do some good. They also do much evil and should not recieve government funding, but we should also recognize what good they do.

I think the telling question here would be..if they could only do the referring, give cervical cancer screenings, and provide paps...would they still be in business?

 

[pdudgeon]

So you would assert that the bishops would endorse the Republicans' defunding the federal government, crippling the economy, and causing great harm in order to prevent $528 million (peanuts) to be spent on Planned Parenthood's services that are unrelated to abortion from being spent?

Let's think of an analogy--if we blow Afghanistan off the map, Muslim women would never be stoned to death for adultery....

Does that make it right?

We should certainly try to prevent Muslim women from being stoned to death in ways that don't create far greater damage.

and there in a nutshell you have the Republican argument.
Sometimes the hyperbole arguments are needed to show the Democrats the harmful effects of their own programs.

what the elected Democrats don't seem to understand is that by funding abortions they are actually complicit in killing their future constituents.
It is much easier to find people to vote for you if you don't kill them off before they have the chance to do so.

 

[SolomonVII]

I think the real question is whether we pay attention to the bishops just when we feel like it.

I think that the bishops certainly did raise some very important points and troubling points about PP that Democrat Catholics might want to enter into a debate with, if abortion was actually an issue for them.

 

[pdudgeon]

I think that the bishops certainly did raise some very important points and troubling points about PP that Democrat Catholics might want to enter into a debate with, if abortion was actually an issue for them.

or if they were to believe that life...all life...is important.

by bringing the bishops into the argument it emphasizes the fact that once again this is not just a Republicans versus Democrats argument,
but one part of an endless plot with the goal to coerce people to eradicate human life wherever in the world it is found.
that is the true goal here; the re-sale of human organs is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[SolomonVII]

or if they were to believe that life...all life...is important.

by bringing the bishops into the argument it emphasizes the fact that once again this is not just a Republicans versus Democrats argument,
but one part of an endless plot with the goal to coerce people to eradicate human life wherever in the world it is found.
that is the true goal here; the re-sale of human organs is just the tip of the iceberg.

It becomes apparent enough over time that what is more important to some Catholic Democrats is to make talking points on every point against Republicans, and the lives of the unborn are merely a minor inconvenience to being able to make those talking points.
What is important is not that the lives of the unborn are being reduced to body parts for profit, but that 'Republicans' exposed this.
Personally, I find that whole line of reasoning rather cold-blooded. While it is never a good idea to displace reason with feelings, basic human decency dictates that people be made aware that you might actually have some feeling over such an abhorrent practice, and that the traffic of human body parts would be the bigger story.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Planned Parenthood has been amazingly successful in worming their way into government and into the favor of the elites.

Are there any other companies whose defenders just assume are owed government money in perpetuity? Do we hear arguments about the need to fund GM forever, or else there will not be enough cars in the US? For that matter, are there other hospitals which are owed perpetual government funding? It's absurd that the debate would even start with that position. Planned Parenthood should have to justify why it deserves funding, it should not require extraordinary circumstances to even contemplate removing that funding.

It also inevitably happens that in mainstream reports about Planned Parenthood, the only research conducted will be contacting Planned Parenthood (or the Guttmacher Institute, which is much the same thing) with absolutely no time given to its critics. Any claims that they make are treated as the absolute truth. Remember when we heard that "most" of what Planned Parenthood does is not abortion, based off their own choice of counting method (which tracked the sale of 12 condoms as 12 different services but all expenses relating to an abortion as a single service). Remember the Susen G. Komen fiasco, where most reporters seemed to be completely unaware that many people find Planned Parenthood to be a controversial organization?

You've got to hand it to Planned Parenthood's lobbyists and PR directors. I don't know of another company which is so beyond criticism on both the level of the media and the law.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Planned Parenthood has been amazingly successful in worming their way into government and into the favor of the elites.

Are there any other companies whose defenders just assume are owed government money in perpetuity? Do we hear arguments about the need to fund GM forever, or else there will not be enough cars in the US? For that matter, are there other hospitals which are owed perpetual government funding? It's absurd that the debate would even start with that position. Planned Parenthood should have to justify why it deserves funding, it should not require extraordinary circumstances to even contemplate removing that funding.

It also inevitably happens that in mainstream reports about Planned Parenthood, the only research conducted will be contacting Planned Parenthood (or the Guttmacher Institute, which is much the same thing) with absolutely no time given to its critics. Any claims that they make are treated as the absolute truth. Remember when we heard that "most" of what Planned Parenthood does is not abortion, based off their own choice of counting method (which tracked the sale of 12 condoms as 12 different services but all expenses relating to an abortion as a single service). Remember the Susen G. Komen fiasco, where most reporters seemed to be completely unaware that many people find Planned Parenthood to be a controversial organization?

You've got to hand it to Planned Parenthood's lobbyists and PR directors. I don't know of another company which is so beyond criticism on both the level of the media and the law.

Planned Parenthood's lobbyists are very active everywhere, including on these forums.

 

[WarriorAngel]

The real question is whether Republican lawbreakers (oops, I suppose I meant lawmakers, although they are pretty much just obstructionists most of the time) should resort to blackmailing the federal government.

Our last government shutdown cost $24.1 billion, or $192 million a day, according to Moody's Analytics, as reported by the Washington Post. Planned Parenthood receives $528 million a year (none of which goes towards abortion, just towards the other 96% of Planned Parenthood's programs)

Isn't it unethical to use immoral means (blackmail) to achieve a moral goal? Doesn't harming the ecomomy by $24.1 billion, money which could have been used for roads, or bridges, or education, or nutrition for poor children, constitute immorality?

I see another Oklahoma legislator is behind all this. Without a doubt, they have the worst crop of legislators in the country.

I wonder what it cost when Clinton shut down the government 3 times...

 

[WarriorAngel]

Planned Parenthood has been amazingly successful in worming their way into government and into the favor of the elites.

Are there any other companies whose defenders just assume are owed government money in perpetuity? Do we hear arguments about the need to fund GM forever, or else there will not be enough cars in the US? For that matter, are there other hospitals which are owed perpetual government funding? It's absurd that the debate would even start with that position. Planned Parenthood should have to justify why it deserves funding, it should not require extraordinary circumstances to even contemplate removing that funding.

It also inevitably happens that in mainstream reports about Planned Parenthood, the only research conducted will be contacting Planned Parenthood (or the Guttmacher Institute, which is much the same thing) with absolutely no time given to its critics. Any claims that they make are treated as the absolute truth. Remember when we heard that "most" of what Planned Parenthood does is not abortion, based off their own choice of counting method (which tracked the sale of 12 condoms as 12 different services but all expenses relating to an abortion as a single service). Remember the Susen G. Komen fiasco, where most reporters seemed to be completely unaware that many people find Planned Parenthood to be a controversial organization?

You've got to hand it to Planned Parenthood's lobbyists and PR directors. I don't know of another company which is so beyond criticism on both the level of the media and the law.

Exactly.

Betting they dont even get a wrist slap. Maybe the few who openly discussed the prices may be fired - but otherwise - no biggy.
Perpetual protection.

 

[Fantine]

Perhaps the Republicans' plan to cause a government shutdown by vetoing $528 million for Planned Parenthood would gain more credibility if it contained additional funds for WIC, Medicaid, education, and the other expenses that the increased population would bring.

But oh darn! Those things are all part of a long laundry list of items that Congress wants to underfund, too!

Guess that's what happens when people who call themselves pro-life duck for cover when all those inconvenient truths emerge from the womb nine months later.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Perhaps the Republicans' plan to cause a government shutdown by vetoing $528 million for Planned Parenthood would gain more credibility if it contained additional funds for WIC, Medicaid, education, and the other expenses that the increased population would bring.

But oh darn! Those things are all part of a long laundry list of items that Congress wants to underfund, too!

Guess that's what happens when people who call themselves pro-life duck for cover when all those inconvenient truths emerge from the womb nine months later.

Let's give those babies a chance to endure, overcome those hardships rather than killing them so we don't have to worry about it.

 

[SolomonVII]

Exactly.

Betting they dont even get a wrist slap. Maybe the few who openly discussed the prices may be fired - but otherwise - no biggy.
Perpetual protection.

Obama assures Planned Parenthood that they still got friends in high places.