Defining Christianity

[Hammster]

Feel free to not participate.

I'm participating. I'll keep reminding everyone that the premise is false and that you have not supported it. And I'll Eden address the OP once there's something to address.

 

[Ran77]

I think you will wait for a long time for an answer.
As I read the Bible and as I understand it, the Bible doesn't list any "essential doctrines of Christianity". There is no such thing/claim in the Bible. I may be wrong.
I am still learning, I am not all-knowing.

You are correct, but it doesn't stop people from claiming that those from other faiths are not Christians. I am just pointing out the total lack for any supporting evidence for these claims. They are based wholly on man-made views and do not represent the doctrines of God.

 

[Ran77]

I have not seen even one link or quote where you've provided any evidence about denominations saying who is in and who is out. Even the Nicene Creed doesn't do that.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Here is an excerpt from the Exsurge Dominie issued by Pope Leo X.

Rebuking them, in violation of your teaching, instead of imploring them, he is not ashamed to assail them, to tear at them, and when he despairs of his cause, to stoop to insults. He is like the heretics "whose last defense," as Jerome says, "is to start spewing out a serpent's venom with their tongue when they see that their causes are about to be condemned, and spring to insults when they see they are vanquished." For although you have said that there must be heresies to test the faithful, still they must be destroyed at their very birth by your intercession and help, so they do not grow or wax strong like your wolves. Finally, let the whole church of the saints and the rest of the universal church arise. Some, putting aside her true interpretation of Sacred Scripture, are blinded in mind by the father of lies. Wise in their own eyes, according to the ancient practice of heretics, they interpret these same Scriptures otherwise than the Holy Spirit demands, inspired only by their own sense of ambition, and for the sake of popular acclaim, as the Apostle declares. In fact, they twist and adulterate the Scriptures. As a result, according to Jerome, "It is no longer the Gospel of Christ, but a man's, or what is worse, the devil's."

 

[Alla27]

Are all of these considered essential doctrines to Christianity? It looks more like a list of what those who follow the Nicene Creed have chosen to believe. This is still a matter of you pointing to the Nicene Creed and expecting me to interact with it rather than you presenting scripture that supports a definition of what and who is a Christian, or scripture that defines a doctrine that is essential to salvation and the Christian faith.

However, I will take a look at the first verse on the list.

Romans 10: 8-10

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


1) There is nothing here that identifies this as a qualifier for being a Christian.

2) Verse nine does indicate that those who confess Jesus and believe in their hearts that God raised him from the dead will be saved.


This qualifies as an essential doctrine for salvation, but does not identify who is or is not a Christian. I consider that progress.

I agree with this. I don't see where it says here that those who confess Jesus and believe that He was raised from the dead have to be called Christians.
Not a word. Not even a half of the word.

 

[Hammster]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Here is an excerpt from the Exsurge Dominie issued by Pope Leo X.

Rebuking them, in violation of your teaching, instead of imploring them, he is not ashamed to assail them, to tear at them, and when he despairs of his cause, to stoop to insults. He is like the heretics "whose last defense," as Jerome says, "is to start spewing out a serpent's venom with their tongue when they see that their causes are about to be condemned, and spring to insults when they see they are vanquished." For although you have said that there must be heresies to test the faithful, still they must be destroyed at their very birth by your intercession and help, so they do not grow or wax strong like your wolves. Finally, let the whole church of the saints and the rest of the universal church arise. Some, putting aside her true interpretation of Sacred Scripture, are blinded in mind by the father of lies. Wise in their own eyes, according to the ancient practice of heretics, they interpret these same Scriptures otherwise than the Holy Spirit demands, inspired only by their own sense of ambition, and for the sake of popular acclaim, as the Apostle declares. In fact, they twist and adulterate the Scriptures. As a result, according to Jerome, "It is no longer the Gospel of Christ, but a man's, or what is worse, the devil's."

"Many denominations use a statement of faith or some sort of creed to determine who is and who is not a Christian."

Is this your example of a statement of faith from a denomination? And does this count as many?

 

[cloudyday2]

I have not seen even one link or quote where you've provided any evidence about denominations saying who is in and who is out. Even the Nicene Creed doesn't do that.

Why don't you and your cohorts simply declare victory and go home? Meanwhile the rest of us can continue our discussion in peace.

EDIT: I don't mean to be rude, but nobody can be as disconnected from reality as you guys are pretending to be.

 

[AV1611VET]

Paul didn't mention Trinity.

He didn't?

What's this then?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[Hammster]

Why don't you and your cohorts simply declare victory and go home? Meanwhile the rest of us can continue our discussion in peace.

I'd rather have a discussion. But in order to do so, and to stay on topic as the has repeatedly asked us to do, he needs to support his premise.

 

[Alla27]

He didn't?
What's this then?
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Where did Paul mention Trinity in this verse?

He didn't?
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Yes, I see what Paul says . I don't see him mention Trinity. What Trinity? What is Trinity according to THESE particular words of Paul?

 

[Sojourner1]

Are all of these considered essential doctrines to Christianity? It looks more like a list of what those who follow the Nicene Creed have chosen to believe. This is still a matter of you pointing to the Nicene Creed and expecting me to interact with it rather than you presenting scripture that supports a definition of what and who is a Christian, or scripture that defines a doctrine that is essential to salvation and the Christian faith.

However, I will take a look at the first verse on the list.

Romans 10: 8-10

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


1) There is nothing here that identifies this as a qualifier for being a Christian.

2) Verse nine does indicate that those who confess Jesus and believe in their hearts that God raised him from the dead will be saved.


This qualifies as an essential doctrine for salvation, but does not identify who is or is not a Christian. I consider that progress.

The portion in red is clearly a qualifier for being a Christian (being saved).

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Are you telling me that "thou shalt be saved" isn't referring to the salvation of believers (Christians)?

 

[Alla27]

The portion in red is clearly a qualifier for being a Christian (being saved).

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Are you telling me that "thou shalt be saved" isn't referring to the salvation of believers (Christians)?

No, you show us where does the Bible say that those who are saved are Christians?

 

[Winken]

I agree with this. I don't see where it says here that those who confess Jesus and believe that He was raised from the dead have to be called Christians. Not a word. Not even a half of the word.

Write down the word Christian. Beneath it, write: 1. Believers. 2. born again. 3. followers. 4. faithists. 5. Graceists. 6. Confessors. 7. Professors. 8. Saved. 9. Secure. 10. Blessed......

There are many more.

Just don't write Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Catholic, etc......

Then drop in at your favorite Pub, ask the bartender the question: "What is a Christian?"

"In the wee small hours of the morning,
while the whole wide world is fast asleep,
you sit alone, thinking about............"

 

[Alla27]

Write down the word Christian. Beneath it, write: 1. Believers. 2. born again. 3. followers. 4. faithists. 5. Graceists. 6. Confessors. 7. Professors. 8. Saved. 9. Secure. 10. Blessed......

There are many more.

Just don't write Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalen, Catholic, etc......

Then drop in at your favorite Pub, ask the bartender the question: "What is a Christian?"

"In the wee small hours of the morning,
while the whole wide world is fast asleep,
you sit alone, thinking about............"

thank you for response. But it was not helpful. The Bible doesn't say to do what you said to do. Sorry. It is all about the Bible in this topic. Not about men's philosophies, not even about bartender's opinions.
BTW, I don't go to pubs.

 

[Sojourner1]

No, you show us where does the Bible say that those who are saved are Christians?

What does the word "saved" mean to you. Who is it referring to?

 

[Alla27]

What does the word "saved" mean to you.

It doesn't matter. This OP is not about my believes on salvation

Who is it referring to?

Hmm. Why don't you help me to answer this question by quoting the Bible?
So, who is he referring to according to the Bible?

 

[Sojourner1]

No, you show us where does the Bible say that those who are saved are Christians?

All of the following verses are speaking about believers, those who follow Christ and believe in Him, believe that He is the eternal God, believe that He died on the cross and rose again, and believe that because He is God he can forgive our sins and give us salvation though Him alone. Those who believe in their hearts, and confess with their mouth, in the full gospel of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins are called Christians.

1 Corinthians 1
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours:
9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”

Acts 16:30b-31
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 2:38-39
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

John 20:31
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

2 Timothy 3:15
And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Where did Paul mention Trinity in this verse?

Yes, I see what Paul says . I don't see him mention Trinity. What Trinity? What is Trinity according to THESE particular words of Paul?

There are a multitude of things that the Bible does not mention but still exist....so your point is?

 

[Ran77]

"Many denominations use a statement of faith or some sort of creed to determine who is and who is not a Christian."

Is this your example of a statement of faith from a denomination? And does this count as many?

First you posted:

Perhaps I missed it, but which one was a denomination that stated who is and isn't a Christian?

Which asks for one denomination that stated who is and isn't a Christian. Then you posted:

I have not seen even one link or quote where you've provided any evidence about denominations saying who is in and who is out. Even the Nicene Creed doesn't do that.

Which decries not having even one link or quote. Then when one is provided the complaint switches to the number of links or quotes. Taking this further I expect that should I provide even a large number of quotes from a variety of denominations that a new complaint will take its place. This just represent an early example of what I am addressing in this thread. If accusations of how the other denomination is not a Christian denomination were already flying when there were only two major factions in Christianity I find it entirely reasonable to accept that the practice continued on from here with the increasing diversity in beliefs. I don't intend to provide any more examples - this excerpt along with the comments that are routinely made on this website are sufficient enough evidence to justify this thread.

 

[Ran77]

He didn't?

What's this then?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Off topic. Please take this to another thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

Off topic. Please take this to another thread.

Someone says the Trinity isn't mentioned in the Bible.

I show it is ... and I'm the one off topic?

LOL