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Deconversion?

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Philothei

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This discussion about "evidence" using the scientific method has no bearing whatsoever for the topic at hand... It has no place in this thead. It has been told to all of you 'debating" a General Apologetics topic and this is not a place for that discussion... Please respect the OP and stop this pointless discussion about evidence God like we need a "scientific" proof. Spiritual reality is beyong our physical existance... to start up with... So any such discussion is obviously at best a red herring... approach
 
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Zebra1552

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Not exactly strong...
No? People have been given the death penalty on less evidence than God has going for Him. So why is God special all the sudden?

I'm confused about what you think I'm supposed to be proving.
You? No, no, you misunderstand. You stated that there isn't evidence for Christianity's claims, no? What evidence will you accept? Empirical? Legal? Complete certainty? What is your criteria for evidence? I mean, if the claims of Christianity can be proven using some criteria I'd like to give it a shot. Who knows? It might help those struggling in their faith.
 
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Criada

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Thank you to everyone who has tried to help, I am a little overwhelmed by the response...
I am trying to think about all that has been said, and work out where I really am. It's hard, mainly because I am afraid of where it will lead. But I do appreciate the prayers and advice you have offered. I can't talk to anyone in 'real life' about it, so it does help to be able to talk here.
 
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Pwnzerfaust

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Thank you to everyone who has tried to help, I am a little overwhelmed by the response...
I am trying to think about all that has been said, and work out where I really am. It's hard, mainly because I am afraid of where it will lead. But I do appreciate the prayers and advice you have offered. I can't talk to anyone in 'real life' about it, so it does help to be able to talk here.

Good luck with your search for truth and all that. Sorry we derailed your thread a bit...
 
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hikersong

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Thank you to everyone who has tried to help, I am a little overwhelmed by the response...
I am trying to think about all that has been said, and work out where I really am. It's hard, mainly because I am afraid of where it will lead. But I do appreciate the prayers and advice you have offered. I can't talk to anyone in 'real life' about it, so it does help to be able to talk here.

I'm glad you feel able to talk here, but if it is at all possible I would try and find someone in your offline life who you can talk to. I realize that may well feel like a loaded dice though. If you speak to a christian you probably will already have a good idea what is going to be said. If you speak to someone who has "deconverted" then you will feel like you are edging toward a precipice of no return.

I understand the fear of where all this will lead. Apart from anything else it is a real test of relationships. Bottling this stuff up though, particularly with your husband, is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

I don't envy your predicament. Forgive me for repeating my earlier advice. What is the kindest thing (looking at the big picture) that you could do for yourself in these circumstances? Only you know the honest answer to that question and I doubt that it is a particularly simple one. Then do it. Those who truly love you will support you (again another double edged sword, I realise) whatever that decision is. Being kind to yourself won't kill anyone...being martyr to a cause can cause all sorts of damage. imo.

Wishing you strength and a way forward with all my heart.
 
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A New Dawn

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I think it is important for good people such as yourself and Criada to try to remember that our faith is not a destination but a journey.

This journey takes us to lots of different places, and to meet lots of different people. Some of them will agree with us, some of them will disagree, and some will cause us to doubt our own beliefs.

All that matters in the end is whether you want to make this journey with Christ beside you, or without. It is not about believing the same as anyone else on earth, it is not about pure orthodoxy of faith with any denomination, it is not about believing the Scriptures as if they were God himself. It is about Christ.

The Lord will not abandon you, whatever you decide. You can decide to turn away from the Christian journey for 20 or 30 or 40 years, and then one day realise that there he is, just where he has always been. But you can make a choice about knowing he is there, or trying to go it alone.

Whatever you decide, I wish you peace of mind, and may God be with you.

This is an awesome post and I don't think I could say anything that could add to it, but I have read a story that describes our reunion with Jesus after we have wandered (often through the long dark night of the soul) from Him.


I used to come here almost every day. In fact, coming seemed essential then. I was young and so full of life.

He came here, too. Each day we were so glad to see each other. I couldn't wait to tell Him everything about my day. He would listen patiently, then tell me about Himself and His Father. I loved Him like a brother. But somehow He loved me even more.

Suddenly I stopped coming to the quiet place and went away. I didn't tell Him goodbye. I knew He would be disappointed in me, and I couldn't stand to see that in His face. I ran fast and hard, rushing into the night until I reached a faraway place, a strange place. No one there cared about me; they were all running, too.

After a few months, He sent a friend to find me. His message simply said He missed me. If I would return, we could go on as if nothing had happened. I didn't send a reply. I just packed my bags and moved on. I couldn't stand to think about Him still waiting for me.

Months turned into years, and years into tens of years, and I wandered on. But I lost my illusions. All I had left were false promises. Surely, I thought as I traveled, it would not matter if I stopped by to visit the old place where we used to meet.

Silently, I approached the quiet place. With shallow breath, I peered around the entrance. Suddenly I jerked back, my heart pounding in my ears. I saw a shadow and heard the rustling of a garment. Surely not -- it couldn't be! Not after 23 years.

Then I knew. He was still waiting for me. His words of greeting were quiet. In His face there was no blame. Smiling, He invited me to sit down.

Filling a basin with cool water, He knelt before me. I tried to speak, to hide my face--to escape somehow. How could He? Why should He -- after all this time? I had forsaken our friendship. Willingly -- no, eagerly -- I spat upon His will and ran to an idolatrous land. Squandering my good years, I returned a withered shell of what I should have been.

And now -- this. I hadn't known why I journeyed back, but He did. With tears to heal a torn and weary soul, I repented of the past, confessed my guilt, and asked to come another day to visit with Him. He smiled and wiped my tears. As He removed my sandals and washed my feet, He told me that I need not ask.

He washed away my troubled past, not to remember even a day. Now we sit and visit as in days gone by, because that's God's plan.

And that's God's way.​

Keeping you in my prayers, Criada! You are loved so very much! :prayer: :hug:
 
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Zebra1552

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Pwnzer, let me get straight to the point rather than continuing to dodge around. I've been around apologetics long enough to know that when someone labels something as 'ridiculous' or 'exaggerated', they often aren't there to discuss something but to win a fight. And I've certainly been here when general apologetics was around, so I'm no stranger to the accusations you're making about the Bible.

However, you raised these issues in a thread where someone is struggling with where they're at, and that's just not cool. It's inappropriate, rude, and inconsiderate. As a Christian, I ask that you respect my religion enough to be considerate of those who are struggling with it and not cause further confusion. Please, go raise your issues in philosophy or something.
 
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Criada

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Thank you, Dawn :hug:
I hope that will be my experience.. right now I can't honestly say that I believe it will, but... if I could find a way back, I would. I miss that relationship... but it just isn't there at the moment, and perhaps I was fooling myself that it ever was...
 
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Zebra1552

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Thank you to everyone who has tried to help, I am a little overwhelmed by the response...
I am trying to think about all that has been said, and work out where I really am. It's hard, mainly because I am afraid of where it will lead. But I do appreciate the prayers and advice you have offered. I can't talk to anyone in 'real life' about it, so it does help to be able to talk here.
I'm quite sure there are plenty of people, myself included, who would love to chat with you via MSN or Skype or something, if that would help more than the forums. You know where to find us.

Love ya!
:prayer:
 
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A New Dawn

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Thank you, Dawn :hug:
I hope that will be my experience.. right now I can't honestly say that I believe it will, but... if I could find a way back, I would. I miss that relationship... but it just isn't there at the moment, and perhaps I was fooling myself that it ever was...

Just remember, Criada, our relationship with Christ is what we make it. Not what others think it should be, not what the world judges it to be, and certainly not one based on guilt or pressure. We love you and mourn for your loss, but we know God is a good Father and allows us the room we need. And this is something you need right now, even if you don't know why. But God does, and in His time, He will come to rescue you again.

Praying for you lots. :prayer:
 
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Philothei

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Being kind to yourself won't kill anyone...being martyr to a cause can cause all sorts of damage. imo.

It totally depends of the predicament one is in... If by saying being kind we mean to rationalize our present condition and to look no further for answers...but to just "appease" our questions and "relax" in our state of mind set and being I disagree....

As children of God we are told to seek and we shalll find. We are to question we are to struggle and fall and then get up again....and again and again... We are following a circle sometimes and seems exhausting and tiresome.... But if we remain in a state of doubt is defenately not a positive thing all together :( IMHO.

We know that being a "martyr" for Christ not only it has not caused any damage either but that very thing is what brought about the faith and hope in billions over billions of people. Life is not only physical but also spiritual if one regards life only as in our physical existance well....then that "damage" is all one will exprerience. There is always though the spiritual part of our journey where our spiritual well being is worth all the physical anguish one endures.... One does not pressupose the other of course but to "crucify" one's temptations for Christ and God is the highest form of self denial and we are all called to do when we follow Christ.
 
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Philothei

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Thank you, Dawn :hug:
I hope that will be my experience.. right now I can't honestly say that I believe it will, but... if I could find a way back, I would. I miss that relationship... but it just isn't there at the moment, and perhaps I was fooling myself that it ever was...


No one is in that relationship constantly.... Unfortunately we all fall off the wagon one time or another and we do "break' that rope and we do feel like we are at the end of our rope....But suprisingly Christ mends it and ties again and again.... and that is a continious struggle sometimes... But He is always there and even if we decide to join then He is there waiting...

If you experienced His presence then He was.... there. Nope you were not fooling yourself... take a break if you must but you would not be missing something if it was not there ;)

:angel::angel::angel::hug::hug::hug::hug:
 
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Zebra1552

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We know that being a "martyr" for Christ not only it has not caused any damage either but that very thing is what brought about the faith and hope in billions over billions of people.
Indeed! Foremost in my mind is the book Jesus Freaks, that book is so inspiring. And the first martyr, Stephen, is an inspiration to a young man I know by that same name. Suffering is definitely used for good in God's Kingdom. Doesn't make it any less painful, though... :(
 
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Thomas The Atheist

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Hey Criada,

I deconversed aswel, and stopped believing for just about the same reason as you do: it just didn't seem to make any sense anymore. There were so many flaws that make you doubt etc...

Anyhow, I'm not saying you should become an atheist, but whether you do or don't, you've still got lot's of friends here (including me :)) and if you'd ever want to talk, just send me a PM, ok?

lots of strenght!
 
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Pwnzerfaust

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Pwnzer, let me get straight to the point rather than continuing to dodge around. I've been around apologetics long enough to know that when someone labels something as 'ridiculous' or 'exaggerated', they often aren't there to discuss something but to win a fight. And I've certainly been here when general apologetics was around, so I'm no stranger to the accusations you're making about the Bible.

However, you raised these issues in a thread where someone is struggling with where they're at, and that's just not cool. It's inappropriate, rude, and inconsiderate. As a Christian, I ask that you respect my religion enough to be considerate of those who are struggling with it and not cause further confusion. Please, go raise your issues in philosophy or something.

I'm not one to sugar coat stuff. She asked why people deconverted, I made it clear why I did. Where's the problem?
 
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