Deconversion?

[Philothei]

But if i can humbly add here...We are all in doubts... I will be honest once upon a time I was an agnostic too... I never though cut off myself as I did believe.... there must be something out there "smarter" than humanity that put this world together. A higher power

Just because someone has a crisis that is enough reason to declare " I de-convert" ? I never did either ...I had doubts given but how it is possible to do that? To live a life knowing there is NO ONE over there... no loving Creator ?

I mean if 'giving up' means do not care about the question "what about if there is God outa there" and answering "well.... I have my doubts but i decide there isn't because i have oblstacles and stuff in my life" type of answer....Well...guess what...Christ never promises a life without trials, problems and cares... Actually the devil is hard on the believers... and it is a good fight we are called to fight....Doubts or not we are not spared from tribulations.

If we think a life without God is easy....we should think twice We are like leaving our weapons on the ground and running away.... Is this how we are supposed to fight? with no protection?

I have been there and done that... and was not a pretty pic.... We all need to have Him in our life as God is always there with arms wide open....

Beware the evil one always lurks telling us the opposite that is his job to do....

Prayers to you Criada and know God never abandons any of his children and we are all his children regardless we are christian or not as we are His creation.

Read my siggy I think it speaks volumes:

 

[b&wpac4]

I will point out that if you are having these doubts, it may benefit you to talk to your priest/pastor.

 

[Criada]

My pastor is my husband, and he just says I need more faith.
That's supposed to be a gift isn't it? And to come by the word of God...
I am trying, I'm reading the Bible and trying to pray... but it is all so empty.
I know Christians aren't supposed to have it easy, and I can and have coped with many trials... but, this is different.
I don't know.. it just seems my faith has been taken from me, and however I try, I can't find a way back.

 

[b&wpac4]

My pastor is my husband, and he just says I need more faith.
That's supposed to be a gift isn't it? And to come by the word of God...
I am trying, I'm reading the Bible and trying to pray... but it is all so empty.
I know Christians aren't supposed to have it easy, and I can and have coped with many trials... but, this is different.
I don't know.. it just seems my faith has been taken from me, and however I try, I can't find a way back.

Well, you could start by identifying what you are having problems with and see if you can figure out why you are having those problems and if it's something you can live with.

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Forget religion!

Why?

Because Christianity is not a religion.

Christianity is a relationship with God through Jesus.

A religion is a system of practices or beliefs which are highly valued or considered sacred. So yes, Christianity is a religion. If it isn't, neither is Islam, Judaism, or any other.

 

[Philothei]

My pastor is my husband, and he just says I need more faith.
That's supposed to be a gift isn't it? And to come by the word of God...
I am trying, I'm reading the Bible and trying to pray... but it is all so empty.
I know Christians aren't supposed to have it easy, and I can and have coped with many trials... but, this is different.
I don't know.. it just seems my faith has been taken from me, and however I try, I can't find a way back.

oh...then we are sharing one thing in common.... our hubbies are in ministry

oh..that is even more hard to do... How do we aquire more faith...is a personal matter and I do seek spiritual advice from someone else not my hubby... It is important to have someone outside your spouse...In the EO trad a priesst's wife is not to have as her Spiritual guide her hubby it just does not work. We are adviced our kids and the spouses to have a different one.. for there is already a different kind of relationaship there... that of husband and wife.

Dry spells.... and trials been there and not fun at all... I will pray for you There are not ready made recipes here but knowing the source is the ONLY thing that personally helped me...

Knowing it is not off God but of the devil who does want to allienate us from God is what makes me stubborn to hold on...


Everytime I go down on my knees with tears about why.... I keep my eyes fixed on the person of Christ and see the faith of his beloved Apostles and what they went through and I feel humbled..

If they were stubborn enough to endure all this persecution so am I... .


BTW faith is a gift but it is also aquired and if you pray for more faith God will give it to you.

I think seeking pastoral councel could help you then again so will prayer

hugs again
Philothei

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

One thing I'm curious about is why people take faith to be a positive thing. Faith is belief in something for which there is no evidence. I have difficulty comprehending why such irrationality is held in a positive light.

 

[b&wpac4]

One thing I'm curious about is why people take faith to be a positive thing. Faith is belief in something for which there is no evidence. I have difficulty comprehending why such irrationality is held in a positive light.

Perhaps if you didn't view it as irrationality it would help your perception of it. I have my own reasons for believing in God, of which I have found my own evidence. Since I have no desire to prove it to anybody else, am I so irrational?

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Perhaps if you didn't view it as irrationality it would help your perception of it. I have my own reasons for believing in God, of which I have found my own evidence. Since I have no desire to prove it to anybody else, am I so irrational?

Whether you are or not depends on the sort of evidence you found for yourself. But I suppose this is sorta off topic.

 

[b&wpac4]

Whether you are or not depends on the sort of evidence you found for yourself. But I suppose this is sorta off topic.

Well, most deconversions take place due to a lack of evidence for beliefs. I do not need a criminal conviction to believe (beyond a shadow of a doubt), simply a civil one (preponderance of evidence).

 

[Supreme]

One thing I'm curious about is why people take faith to be a positive thing. Faith is belief in something for which there is no evidence. I have difficulty comprehending why such irrationality is held in a positive light.

Wait, are you honestly telling me that something that promotes hope, unity and morality should be looked at in a negative light?

 

[pdudgeon]

My pastor is my husband, and he just says I need more faith.
That's supposed to be a gift isn't it? And to come by the word of God...
I am trying, I'm reading the Bible and trying to pray... but it is all so empty.
I know Christians aren't supposed to have it easy, and I can and have coped with many trials... but, this is different.
I don't know.. it just seems my faith has been taken from me, and however I try, I can't find a way back.

all blessings to your husband, but it's not 'more' faith that you need.
What is needed here is confirmation from God that He hasn't left you hanging out to dry.

there will be 'dry' times in our spiritual life when it seems like God can't be reached, but that's not really true.

God says in Hebrews 13:5 I will never leave you or forsake you.
hang on to this verse!!!

so when you pray, concentrate on that promise. What God says, He means.

the next thing to do to fight against this problem is to sit down with a paper and pen and start listing every time in the past when God has come thru for you. These are your experiences, your testimony, and NO ONE can refute what you have been thru personally with God.

Keep that list handy. whenever you begin to wonder if you will come thru this period in your life (YOU WILL COME THRU THIS!) pull that list out and read it again. Those are times when God did come thru, and remembering that will strengthen your faith.

now some good advice...if you are going thru hell, don't stop, don't turn aside, don't turn around, and don't give up. Keep right on going, because you're closer to your goal than you might think.

Remember, you are running a race, but you aren't running that race alone.
Literally millions of Christians have run the same race, faced the same problems, wrestled with the same doubts.

Remember John the Baptist?
He baptized Jesus himself, knew He was the Messiah, told others, and yet John came to a point in prison when he wondered if it had all been worth it.

So he sent two of his disciples to Jesus to ask Him, "Are You the Messiah we've been expecting, or should we keep looking for another?"
and in Luke 7:22 we have Jesus' answer.

He tells John's disciples to tell John what they have seen and heard; the lame walk, the blind, see, the leapers are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised to life, and the Good News is being preached to the poor.

there are three things to remember thru this:

1. the finish line for your race hasn't been moved.
it's still in the same place, but you are closer now than when you first began. You've made progress and that's important to remember!

2.the goal of your race hasn't changed.
it's still the same goal--eternal life and salvation.
you began this race a while back, and you've been running and encouraging others to run as well.

3.The same reason you began this race is the reason why you should finish it, and why you CAN finish it, strong and victorious.

Your worst enemy, satan, is already defeated, but there is no reason why you should be.

Do you hear that cheering??
Keep on running!!!

 

[hikersong]

Hi Criada,

I was an evangelical/charismatic/pentecostal christian, brought up in an evangelical family, went to bible school for 3 years, planning to be a missionary to the muslims. I guess I've deconverted.

For me, as it appears to be for you, it was a gradual process. I read a book at one point in this process which might help. It is called Post-Evangelical by a guy called Dave Tomlinson. Although it is not intended as precursor for "deconversion" it was a very helpful and uplifting book which never the less acted as a stepping stone to where I am now.

Incidentally, my wife (who I met at Bible College) is still an evangelical, and we are still together despite some of the difficulties that this could have caused. The fact that your husband is a Pastor probably means that this part of the whole process will be more difficult for you. I imagine that is a big part of your struggle.

Part of the reason I am an agnostic is that I still have a feel for the possibility of something greater...beyond this life. However, I also have to accept that it could all be wishful thinking. I can't let go of either of those possibilities. I have gradually let go of all the certainties of my previous faith though, and that was very much like setting out into a big wide ocean, on my own, without a map and compass. There was a tremendous sense of freedom and excitement but also a certain fear and a sense of loss.

I think I have gained, and this is a massive thing, a sense of responsibility for my own life and the decisions I make. Also a great sense of freedom at times. I have lost, and for me this is still a big deal, a sense of destiny for human kind which enabled me to see a light at the end of the tunnel of human suffering. I think I am more pessimistic now...but I don't think that is inevitable. Some of the happiest people I see are those who, relieved of the baggage of any sort of expectancy or obligation, simply live their lives...dream dreams of better tomorrows. I do believe that it is the little acts in life that have, in the long run, the most significance...but I no longer have a world view which backs up that belief.

Excuse my meanderings. I do feel for you, and I think it is brave of you to talk about this before people who knew you as a believer. I actually had to physically move away from my church world in order to become myself. I wish you all the best...be kind to yourself. That is the best advice I can give...and (I think someone said something similar) being kind to yourself is also one of the best things you can do for everybody else.

(I'd be more than happy to speak further about my experience if you have any questions, and if it would help)

David

ps...you speak of being depressed at the moment. Don't be surprised if this turns into a deep anger at some point. It certainly did for me. I came to this forum thinking that I had got over it, and then discovered that there was still a lot of resentment there. This too will come to an end.

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Wait, are you honestly telling me that something that promotes hope, unity and morality should be looked at in a negative light?

My philosophy probably differs from yours, but, yes, yes I am.

I believe the goal of humanity should be the ending of all human suffering, and that the acquisition of knowledge is the best way to achieve that goal. So anything that purports to have answers that it doesn't, or that hinder the progress of science and technology, which faith, in many cases, does, is negative.

Also, faith doesn't only do the things you said. Faith is also a cause of war, division, intolerance, and many other negative things. It's certainly not the ONLY cause of those things, but it is one nonetheless. Faith is not just a happy peachy lovely thing.

 

[Supreme]

My philosophy probably differs from yours, but, yes, yes I am.

I believe the goal of humanity should be the ending of all human suffering, and that the acquisition of knowledge is the best way to achieve that goal. So anything that purports to have answers that it doesn't, or that hinder the progress of science and technology, which faith, in many cases, does, is negative.

The progress of science and technology have brought us a fantastic understanding of our world, but what about the science and technology that has been developed with the purpose (intentially or otherwise) of human suffering? Like the nuclear missile, or the ability to emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and subsequently warm up the planet? As someone with a keen interest in science, I accept that not all science is done with the aim of ending human suffering. In fact, very little of it is.

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

The progress of science and technology habe brought us a fantastic understanding of our world, but what about the science and technology that has been developed with the exact opposite of human suffering? Like the nuclear missile, or the ability to emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and subsequently warm up the planet? As someone with a keen interest in science, I accept that not all science is done with the aim of ending human suffering. In fact, very little of it is.

Don't miss the last bit I added to the end.

Yes, I acknowledge that much progress in science and technology is done with the aim of figuring out better ways to kill each other, or more efficient ways to plunder the Earth of its resources. This is a fact, and I do not deny it.

However, you can not deny that without science, the world would be a much more bleak place. Agricultural science, medical science, information technology, transportation technology, computers... Almost everything that you take for granted in your modern, convenient life exists thanks to modern science.

 

[Philothei]

One thing I'm curious about is why people take faith to be a positive thing. Faith is belief in something for which there is no evidence. I have difficulty comprehending why such irrationality is held in a positive light.

Irractionality for something you cannot disprove? If it was so obvious that it did not exist ...then when is your evidence ?

There is no evidence for both and anyways what spiritual realm has to do with the "empirical evidence" you all talk about ...is absurd. Science cannot disprove God as God is not of the physical sphere but spiritual....

If you chose not to believe such a reality exists is your opinion not a fact.

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Irractionality for something you cannot disprove? If it was so obvious that it did not exist ...then when is your evidence ?

I don't assert that it doesn't exist. I say there is no evidence for it, so there's no reason to believe it. I don't have to disprove it to lack belief in it.

On the other hand, people who assert that a deity exists are making an affirmative assertion. Therefore, the burden of proof is on them.

There is no evidence for both and anyways what spiritual realm has to do with the "empirical evidence" you all talk about ...is absurd. Science cannot disprove God as God is not of the physical sphere but spiritual....

Again, I don't have to disprove it. The burden of proof is on those that assert its existence.

If you chose not to believe such a reality exists is your opinion not a fact.

I don't choose what I believe. I either do or I don't.

Also, this is getting really off topic. If you want to continue this line of discussion, perhaps a new thread can be made about it.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Anyone want to share why... or why not?
I'm at a crossroads right now, and feeling very confused.
If anyone has deconverted, or come close to doing so and come back to Christianity, can you give some reasons for your decision?

Praying for you, sis.


Romans 8:31-39
What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all-how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[HeKnowsMyName]

I'm wondering if it's because your DH is a pastor that is the problem. People in Ministry and Pastorial positions often are pulled at from all angles and it's possible that you have been wiped out because of this. The Pastor and his wife/family needs to be refreshed too. I will pray for you. It is not God's Will that you suffer like this. He can and will put joy back in your heart.

I take it you don't really want to deconvert or you wouldn't be here. Try praising God when these negative and/or depressive thoughts come to you. Put the enemy under your feet. You have that power through Jesus Christ. If it helps, talk aloud to the enemy and tell him you rebuke him. Tell him he's not welcome in your home, in your life, etc. We have this power as Christians and oftentimes we don't exert it.