Debate help...why is homosexuality wrong?

[Proselyte]

You dont need the Bible you just need God, the Bible is just a book, just one way of reaching him, and as you say it is often missinterpreted, listen to God and no one else.

Jesus quoted from scripture and preached its truth.

How do you know that it's God you're listening to? It could be Satan misleading you.
Islamic Terrorists believe they are listening to God as well as they blow up innocents.
I'm not comparing you to that, but you can see where this dangerous line of thinking can lead.

The Bible lays out nice guidelines for living that millions of followers have followed for milennia. Moses, Abraham, Paul, John, Daniel, David etc etc...

 

[DeepThinker]

Jesus quoted from scripture and preached it's truth.

How do you know that it's God you're listening to? It could be Satan misleading you.
Islamic Terrorists believe they are listening to God as well as they blow up innocents.
I'm not comparing you to that, but you can see where this dangerous line of thinking can lead.

The Bible lays out nice guidelines for living that millions of followers have followed for milennia. Moses, Abraham, Paul, John, Daniel, David etc etc...

And also guidlines that have lead to mass murder and genocide, of insanity and death in the name of "God"
With or without the Bible, a corrupted mind is a corrupted mind.

Are you saying that it is wrong to love? are you saying the Devil tells me to love?

 

[Proselyte]

And also guidlines that have lead to mass murder and genocide, of insanity and death in the name of "God"
With or without the Bible, a corrupted mind is a corrupted mind.

Are you saying that it is wrong to love? are you saying the Devil tells me to love?

It is man's corruption that has lead to those events you speak of. That doesn't take away from the Bible. I could go out and misrepresent Jesus and slaughter babies. You would then condemn me, not Jesus. Look at it the same with the dark ages Catholic Church, or anyone else who uses the Bible for wrong reasons.

Love is very important, which the New Testament is full of.

 

[Colabomb]

Hmm, is this a comment on my post? are you saying that the overall message in the Bible is not one of "love"? are you saying my heart and mind are corrupted because I seek to not condem people but to love them instead, as Jesus did?

Do you assume without the Bible we cannot tell the difference of right and wrong? To see what is evil and what is not?

You yet again, assume that we hate homosexuals.

I LOVE HOMOSEXUALS! JESUS LOVES HOMOSEXUALS!

However, Jesus also loves liars and theives, he loves prostitutes and slanderers. He loves me even though I am a sinner.

Yet His message to all sinners is the same: REPENT!

 

[Proselyte]

You yet again, assume that we hate homosexuals.

I LOVE HOMOSEXUALS! JESUS LOVES HOMOSEXUALS!

However, Jesus also loves liars and theives, he loves prostitutes and slanderers. He loves me even though I am a sinner.

Yet His message to all sinners is the same: REPENT!

Bingo!

 

[Colabomb]

You dont need the Bible you just need God, the Bible is just a book, just one way of reaching him, and as you say it is often missinterpreted, listen to God and no one else.

How do you know God aside from His revelation?

 

[DeepThinker]

How do you know God aside from His revelation?

How do I know God? are you kidding me? do you not know God when he talks to you?

I mean would the devil tell me to work as a volunteer for an environmental charity? or to give all the money I can spare to children in the third world? To earn that money by helping the families of disabled children?

I think I have a pretty good sense of who God is and what he wants from me, are you saying its not him? should I read the Bible to know that these things are right or wrong? dont be foolish, every pure heart knows the difference of right and wrong, and a corrupted heart would not listen to a book anyway.

I read the Bible for the message, not the words.

 

[Proselyte]

How do I know God? are you kidding me? do you not know God when he talks to you?

I mean would the devil tell me to work as a volunteer for an environmental charity? or to give all the money I can spare to children in the third world? To earn that money by helping the families of disabled children?

I think I have a pretty good sense of who God is and what he wants from me, are you saying its not him? should I read the Bible to know that these things are right or wrong? dont be foolish, every pure heart knows the difference of right and wrong, and a corrupted heart would not listen to a book anyway.

I read the Bible for the message, not the words.

Those are all admirable works you mentioned. Now what do you say about a non-Christian who does those things? Gives to charity, volunteers at hospitals, but rejects Jesus? Maybe they're Jewish for instance. They listen to *God* and do kind things but don't have Jesus. Do you feel they're in danger of not being saved?

 

[DeepThinker]

Those are all admirable works you mentioned. Now what do you say about a non-Christian who does those things? Gives to charity, volunteers at hospitals, but rejects Jesus? Maybe they're Jewish for instance. They listen to *God* and do kind things but don't have Jesus. Do you feel they're in danger of not being saved?

I do not belive that that is what the Bible means, to reject Jesus is not to say we do not belive in him, it is to reject what he stands for, to say you do not belive in him is in my eyes at best Blasphamy, Jesus said that blaspheming agains God or against the son can be forgiven, but to blaspheme against the holy spirit shall not be forgiven. People who have love and goodness in their hearts have the holy spirit, to say that they do not is to say that what inhabits them is evil, the devil would not work evil through doing good. If there is a hell someone who is good and pure will not go there, they may not belive in Jesus but that does not mean that they do not have him in their hearts.

I'm sure you disagree, this is not normally though of when that passage arises, but think about it Jesus said that the Pharasiees (bad at spelling sorry) had rabbis that could drive evil spirits from men, they did not belive in Jesus but they were filled with the same power, the holy spirit whatever you want to call it is in every one who does good. As the son and the father and the holy spirit are one they must have had Jesus.

 

[DeepThinker]

You yet again, assume that we hate homosexuals.

I LOVE HOMOSEXUALS! JESUS LOVES HOMOSEXUALS!

However, Jesus also loves liars and theives, he loves prostitutes and slanderers. He loves me even though I am a sinner.

Yet His message to all sinners is the same: REPENT!

Absolutely, but you cannot repent untill you know you sin, if they ask forgiveness for their sins, these sins will be forgiven, just because they do not belive it is a sin, does not mean it is not forgiven when they ask for forgiveness.

 

[DeepThinker]

Also i never said you hate homosexuals, it was your assumption that I felt that, I said you condem when you should love. there is a difference

 

[MorganParadise]

Hmm, is this a comment on my post? are you saying that the overall message in the Bible is not one of "love"? are you saying my heart and mind are corrupted because I seek to not condem people but to love them instead, as Jesus did?

Do you assume without the Bible we cannot tell the difference of right and wrong? To see what is evil and what is not?

I think I didnt make all my points in my earlier post. I am not saying to hate that is not my place. God is the judge and jury not me, my comment was to say that people like homosexuals and others who sin willfully I do not hate them but I must stay away from them.
Mat 7:1-5
(1) Judge not, that you may not be judged.
(2) For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
(3) And why do you look on the splinter that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam that is in your own eye?
(4) Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull the splinter out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye?
(5) Hypocrite! First cast the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast the splinter out of your brother's eye.

However I will still stick with my previous post to stay away from anyone who sins willfully
Let me say this one sin is no greater or lesser than any other sin. A homosexual vs lets say an alcoholic both sin and both sins are just that sin. One is no greater or lesser than the other. Christians should witness to all but that does not mean fellowship with all.

 

[Proselyte]

Christians should witness to all but that does not mean fellowship with all.

Another good point.

I have a struggle where I am witnessing to my longtime non-Christian friends, yet am also hanging out with them but trying not to fall into old sinful patterns through their influence.

 

[bexe]

Well if ur trying to find biblical reasons why homosexuality is wrong you've got the, "it cant lead to procreation" argument which will be your biggest, but you could mention Sodom and Gomorrah. That frowns upon the act.
Personally im not against it, i think that if it is a loving relationship it shouldnt be considered wrong, it seems to be becoming more accepted now.

 

[Proselyte]

Well if ur trying to find biblical reasons why homosexuality is wrong you've got the, "it cant lead to procreation" argument which will be your biggest, but you could mention Sodom and Gomorrah. That frowns upon the act.
Personally im not against it, i think that if it is a loving relationship it shouldnt be considered wrong, it seems to be becoming more accepted now.

Hi thanks for your reply. Biblically I'm covered. I am trying to find non-Biblical reasons because my non-Christian friends reject the Bible. Therefore making arguments to them from it has no merit in their eyes.
I don't think I will find any, so the point is moot.

 

[DeepThinker]

I think I didnt make all my points in my earlier post. I am not saying to hate that is not my place. God is the judge and jury not me, my comment was to say that people like homosexuals and others who sin willfully I do not hate them but I must stay away from them.
Mat 7:1-5
(1) Judge not, that you may not be judged.
(2) For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
(3) And why do you look on the splinter that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam that is in your own eye?
(4) Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull the splinter out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye?
(5) Hypocrite! First cast the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast the splinter out of your brother's eye.

However I will still stick with my previous post to stay away from anyone who sins willfully
Let me say this one sin is no greater or lesser than any other sin. A homosexual vs lets say an alcoholic both sin and both sins are just that sin. One is no greater or lesser than the other. Christians should witness to all but that does not mean fellowship with all.

But they do not sin willfully, they do not belive it is a sin and so it is not willfull.
A sin is a sin it is true, but you do not understand what a sin is from a Bible, you see it in your heart, to trust a book is foolish, it could have been changed with all manner of lies, and translations are often missinterpreted.
Jesus did not tell the rich man that if he wanted to go to heaven he should not be homosexual, yet he gave him other commandments, why do you suppose that is?

 

[DeepThinker]

Hi thanks for your reply. Biblically I'm covered. I am trying to find non-Biblical reasons because my non-Christian friends reject the Bible. Therefore making arguments to them from it has no merit in their eyes.
I don't think I will find any, so the point is moot.

Of course you can, this is my whole point, you can tell someone not to sin through reason, each sin has a reason it is this you must argue with them, if you feel you must argue at all, if you quote to them scripture they will not listen, disern the meaning behind the words, I think for the Gay "sin" you will not find much reason other than you cannot procreate, this is why I doubt that this was a part of the word of God and more something invented by the society of the time.

 

[crazymichael]

Well if ur trying to find biblical reasons why homosexuality is wrong you've got the, "it cant lead to procreation" argument which will be your biggest, but you could mention Sodom and Gomorrah. That frowns upon the act.

that would mean that not getting married and not having children is also a sin? does everyone have to reproduce?

 

[Proselyte]

Of course you can, this is my whole point, you can tell someone not to sin through reason, each sin has a reason it is this you must argue with them, if you feel you must argue at all, if you quote to them scripture they will not listen, disern the meaning behind the words, I think for the Gay "sin" you will not find much reason other than you cannot procreate, this is why I doubt that this was a part of the word of God and more something invented by the society of the time.

The Bible says clearly:

Leviticus 18:22 "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

Christians who follow the Bible yet continue in willful homosexual relationships are living in sin.

We all sin. But to continue in any sort of sin we know is wrong puts the Christian in peril. Jesus did not die on the cross for our salvation so we could continue to live in sin that he paid the price for. We are saved by grace but it doesn't give us license to willfully sin and cause our Christian brothers and sisters to stumble.

 

[MorganParadise]

But they do not sin willfully, they do not belive it is a sin and so it is not willfull.
I beg to differ an alcoholic doesnt drink because he wants to he drinks because he has to however it is still a sin so it is with homosexuals.
A sin is a sin it is true, but you do not understand what a sin is from a Bible, you see it in your heart, to trust a book is foolish, it could have been changed with all manner of lies, and translations are often missinterpreted.
Your response is ridiculous you are telling me you KNOW what GOD meant in the BIBLE but its not what is said in the BIBLE. You also claim to be a christian with the symbol at the top. Let me tell you this friend I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God in it entirety every word was written by man but inspired by God and you with your comments will not change my mine it just makes me question you.
Jesus did not tell the rich man that if he wanted to go to heaven he should not be homosexual, yet he gave him other commandments, why do you suppose that is?
UUMMMMMMM he must not have been a homosexual you rekin.

Im finished debating with you because your point is mute it means nothing to me you have not backed up one point with the bible therefore you are running off of emotions and emotions mean nothing. Back your points up with Biblical scripture or else you are babbling.
1Ti 6:3-5
(3) If anyone teaches otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words (those of our Lord Jesus Christ), and to the doctrine according to godliness,
(4) he is proud, knowing nothing. He is sick concerning doubts and arguments, from which comes envy, strife, evil speakings, evil suspicions,
(5) meddling, of men whose minds have been corrupted and deprived of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness. Withdraw from such.
I am withdrawing from this conversation