Dealing with Objectors to the Ten Commandments of God

ViaCrucis

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Really? Do you think the Ten Commandments are the word from the devil? Do you not know the Word was in the beginning? Just what do you think the Word of the Lord is?

Jesus is the Logos, the Eternal Word of God; the Torah, the word given to the Prophets, Scripture and other things described as God's word are not Jesus. That's what I was getting at--we mustn't conflate text and spoken word with the Eternal Logos.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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EmSw

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Jesus is the Logos, the Eternal Word of God; the Torah, the word given to the Prophets, Scripture and other things described as God's word are not Jesus. That's what I was getting at--we mustn't conflate text and spoken word with the Eternal Logos.

-CryptoLutheran

So, the Torah and the word given to the prophets are not the eternal word of God?

1 Chronicles 17:23
And now, O Lord, the word which You have spoken concerning Your servant and concerning his house, let it be established forever, and do as You have said.

Psalm 119:89
Forever, O Lord, Your word is settled in heaven.

Psalm 119:160
The entirety of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever.

1 Peter 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

How can you say the Torah and the word of the prophets are not the eternal word of God? Do you not believe Isaiah when he says 'the word of our God stands forever'?
 
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Fireinfolding

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The Word (Christ) did refer to the commandment in Mark 7:10 given by Moses as the word of God in Mark 7:13 which they made of none effect (which Paul does not) in Ephesians 6:2

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Why does it show both as the logos in these?

Here, speaking of the commandment given by Moses

Mark 7:13 Making the word G3056 of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

And here, of Christ being made flesh

John 1:14 And the Word G3056 was made flesh, and dwelt among us

Who also speaks of his words

Luke 9:27 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words G3056, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed
 
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Hawkins

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Just because someone emphasizes the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments of God, it doesn't mean he or she is in bondage to a salvation by works theology.

The nonsense of accusing people of being legalistic for being in favor of keeping God's Ten Commandments, needs to stop.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about that person's relationship with God, ask questions for clarification.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works (Eph. 2:8-9); but let's not forget that we were created for good works (v. 10).

When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.

It is a bit complicated to explain.

Core commandments (such as the 10 commandments) can be law or can be just as the term itself reflects, that is, commandments. Whether they have the law effect will depend on which covenant they are in.

First covenant,
Granted with - Noah
Coverage - all mankind
Born with - yes

Jewish covenant,
Granted with - Moses
Coverage - Jews
Born with - yes

New Covenant,
Granted with - Jesus
Coverage - all mankind
Born with - no

The covenant bound with gentiles should be based off the covenant with Noah, which basically says that humans need to abide by the "Law in Hearts". "Law in Hearts" is basically our conscience. We need to follow our conscience to act. However, our conscience may shift when our heart is hardened. God wrote the laws in our hearts for us to act righteously to be saved. However, this set of law can be blurred out by our hardened hearts as time goes by. An example can be that, homosexuality was widely rejected tens of years ago but widely accepted today. So is nudity. That's how our hearts are hardened to fail to see what God requires us to do by writing laws as our conscience.

Thus God gives a black and white set of laws to the Jews. It can thus be kept intact even when one's heart is hardened. That's why even Jesus said that the Jews should listen to what the Pharisees said but just don't follow what they did. It is because the set of laws (Mosaic Law) is well kept contextually but failed to observed by the Pharisees with their hearts hardened.

Even when Mosaic Law is put in effect through Moses, it by no means says that the Jews don't need to follow their conscience to act. This is the overlapping effect of law and covenants. For the same reason, Law and covenants will not go away as it's not necessary for them to go away. What has been adjusted, technically speaking, is which standard is used for one's final judgment. Thus the gentiles will be judged by the "Law in Hearts" while the Jews will be judged by Mosaic Law (i.e., the covenant with Moses to be more precise).

When the New Covenant is put in effect, and due to the same overlapping effect, both the Jews and gentiles still need to follow their conscience to act (first covenant), with the Jews need to follow the Mosaic Law to act. Even the rites don't formally go away. However, today's Jews can't do rites acceptably to God ever since the tabernacle was destroyed in AD 70. They thus cannot perform atonement offerings inside the tabernacle and through the priests. It signifies that only Jesus can save under the New Covenant era, theologically speaking.

Core commandments are completely something else. Core commandments can exist in each and everything covenant. Don't kill, don't steal and etc. are common sense to our conscience. However we are not sure whether loving God is part of Law in the first covenant. Law means that if you break one you break all and you are pretty much dead after breaking it. In the covenant with Moses, the 10 commandments are part of the Law applicable to the Jews. This is the case even in modern society. If you break a formal law you go to jail. If you break some traffic ordinance you can walk away by paying the penalty in the form of money. You can rush the red traffic light as many time as you wish without going to jail. It however by no means says that you don't need to follow traffic lights to drive.

Jesus has mentioned all of the 10 commandments except of the Sabbath. The significance is that it means that those commandments are still the core commandments in the New Covenant. However, they don't act as Law but commandments in terms of our final judgment. That's why even a killer can repent to be saved. However it by no means says that you can murder at will or break them willfully as you wish. In the end, it's all up to Jesus to judge. While He said that the "O Lord" in your mouth will not save you if you are an evil doer in His eyes.

So we do need to observe the 10 commandments. As for Sabbath, Christians attend Sunday services as our Sabbath. All mankind observe the Sabbath as Sunday is lawful rest day for all humans. The significance is that all humans are living under God's sovereignty.

That said. The older covenants are in effect all the times as the New Covenant is not a born with covenant. Everyone is bound with a default covenant when we were born. A Jew is a Jew if he is circumcised since the 8th day of birth. Or else he's not a Jews in terms of Law and covenant even he's a Jew of bloodline. If he continues to want to be a Jew, he needs to abide by the Mosaic Law, or else he's a gentile. Gentiles are bound with an earlier covenant when born where they will be judged by the "Law in Hearts". This how they will be judged until they choose the New Covenant with consent. With the New Covenant, they both will be judged by faith instead of Law.
 
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ViaCrucis

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So, the Torah and the word given to the prophets are not the eternal word of God?

1 Chronicles 17:23
And now, O Lord, the word which You have spoken concerning Your servant and concerning his house, let it be established forever, and do as You have said.

Psalm 119:89
Forever, O Lord, Your word is settled in heaven.

Psalm 119:160
The entirety of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever.

1 Peter 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

How can you say the Torah and the word of the prophets are not the eternal word of God? Do you not believe Isaiah when he says 'the word of our God stands forever'?

Because the Eternal Word of God is the second Person of the Trinity.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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And where in the Bible do you get that?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not one thing came into being. ... And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen His glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth. ... No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made Him known." - John 1:1-3,14,18

The Logos is Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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EmSw

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"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not one thing came into being. ... And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen His glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth. ... No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made Him known." - John 1:1-3,14,18

The Logos is Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

Logos is also used of man's words.

Matthew 12
35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Here is what Strong's says about logos -

what someone has said
  1. a word
  2. the sayings of God
  3. decree, mandate or order
  4. of the moral precepts given by God
  5. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)

Any saying, decree, mandate, order, moral precept, or prophecy given by God is the Logos. Thus, Jesus is the Word Itself, that is, any thing uttered by God.
 
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klutedavid

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Just because someone emphasizes the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments of God, it doesn't mean he or she is in bondage to a salvation by works theology.

The nonsense of accusing people of being legalistic for being in favor of keeping God's Ten Commandments, needs to stop.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about that person's relationship with God, ask questions for clarification.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works (Eph. 2:8-9); but let's not forget that we were created for good works (v. 10).

When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.
Hello woobadooba.

You made the statement.
When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.
I see a broken set of ten commandments housed in an ark of the old covenant.

The commandments that we obey are the New Covenant commandments.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Any saying, decree, mandate, order, moral precept, or prophecy given by God is the Logos. Thus, Jesus is the Word Itself, that is, any thing uttered by God.

No. Jesus is not "any thing uttered by God". Jesus is the Logos, the eternal and only-begotten Son of the Father made flesh in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Fireinfolding

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Just as Jesus (the Word) called the commandment given by Moses the word of God (as posted earlier) its interesting that in 2 Samuel 12 a similar thing there between two verses

2 Samuel 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

2 Samuel 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

David is known to be a man after God's own heart except in the matter of Uriah as mentioned here

2 Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
 
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EmSw

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No. Jesus is not "any thing uttered by God". Jesus is the Logos, the eternal and only-begotten Son of the Father made flesh in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

-CryptoLutheran

The Son is not the definition of Logos. I gave you the definition; why do you not see it?
 
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StevenBelievin

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Just because someone emphasizes the importance of keeping the Ten Commandments of God, it doesn't mean he or she is in bondage to a salvation by works theology.

The nonsense of accusing people of being legalistic for being in favor of keeping God's Ten Commandments, needs to stop.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about that person's relationship with God, ask questions for clarification.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works (Eph. 2:8-9); but let's not forget that we were created for good works (v. 10).

When I look at God's Ten Commandments I see something good, not evil.

The law is good and not evil, but those who are in Christ Jesus are not under the law but under grace. Paul goes so far as to say that the strength of sin is the law. So it is not until we count ourselves as those who are dead to sin but alive to God through Christ that we will see real freedom. Do you want to know what one of the most crippling things to a Christian is? Guilt. We have been pronounced "not guilty" by the blood of Jesus. Yet we carry guilt and shame around because of our failings. This keeps us from the only one who can really heal us. Jesus.

Law keeping is a dangerous thing, and it is another gospel and it is not good news at all. The true gospel is the gospel of grace through faith.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Struggling to not do bad things and to do good things will never work. That's why Jesus said "come to me all you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest". It is not until you are at rest from your works that God can work.
 
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klutedavid

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And what makes you think the Ten have nothing to do with the New Covenant?
Hello woobadooba.

The broken stones, the ten commandments, that sat in a broken and lost ark of the old covenant. Are not the same commandments that the Gentiles were given in the New Testament. The commandments in the New Testament were never called the ten commandments by the apostles. That is one of the great deceptions in historical Christianity.

Got wrote love on our hearts, that is what the fruit of the Holy Spirit is all about.

God did not condemn you in Christ by asking you to fail, the very same way that Israel failed, in the flesh. Obey and you will receive the promised land?

God took over and created a new creation, for you are a new creation in Christ. God guaranteed that every one who calls on His name will be saved, by giving us a new heart.
A new heart empowered to love, a spiritual heart that far surpasses the elementary laws of the old covenant.

The great chant of legalism is obey the ten and live.

Christians rejoice in what Christ has done for us, God removed the iniquity of the land in one day!
 
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