Dealing with Cessationists

[Guojing]

The Word of God states:

1 Peter 2:24 KJV
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

This is simply a declaration of the work of God in redemption. It is a quote from Is 53. It is really not something we can debate, question, qualify, and certainly not deny. Isaiah actually says "by his stripes we are healed."
Isaiah was standing prophetically at the foot of the cross, pointing at the crucified Jesus declaring to those standing around his "by his stripes ye are healed!"
Peter is writing to the believers. He is referring back to the cross and declaring "look, by his stripes ye were healed."
The suffering and death of Jesus for our salvation and healing is not something to be spoken of lightly. Certain not rail against those who seek to hold fast to the profession of their faith.
Yes, I am healed by the stripes of Jesus. We were so I am.
I will not deny His sacrifice and suffering on my behalf.

As I said above, have you ever wondered why the Apostle Paul, the one apostle who calls himself the apostle to the gentiles (Romans 11:13), never taught us any of these things in Romans to Philemon?

"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (1 Tim 5:23)

Why didn't he teach Timothy to declare "By Christ stripes we are healed?"

 

[jiminpa]

Oh, that popular 2 Corinthians 1:20 verse that people like to take out of context.

When God promised us present salvation in the Body of Christ, do you also take his promises to Israel and others as yours too?

Let me give you an uncontroversial example. Take God's promises to Abraham in Genesis 15:5

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

How would you respond to someone who said, "Since I believe 2 Corinthians 1:20, I can claim this promise that God gave Abraham as well!"

What about Matthew 19:28 as well? Do you think it makes logical sense for anyone of us to use 2 Corinthians 1:20 to declare "I shall also be sitting on 1 of those 12 thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel"?

Nice shell game tactic. The promise is that we have been healed. If we have not been healed how do we know any promise is true?

 

[Guojing]

Nice shell game tactic. The promise is that we have been healed. If we have not been healed how do we know any promise is true?

What is a "shell game tactic"? Never heard of that term until today

The basic lesson I am teaching is that 2 Corinthians 1:20 does not allow you to claim promises that God gave to a different group, Israel, in a different time period

Jesus was ministering to Israel under the Law.

You must understand that, under the Old Covenant of Law, God literally promised Israel that if they obey him, they will never fall sick (Deuteronomy 7:15, Exodus 15:26)

Under the promised kingdom of heaven on Earth, no one in Israel will be maim or sick too Isaiah 33:24

So Jesus was giving Israel a taste of what life will be under that promised kingdom on Earth that he is offering to them

But now, we gentiles in the Body of Christ, God does not deal with us according to the Law (Romans 6:14).

So God does not promise healing to us based on any promises, seeing a doctor when you are sick is the standard advice, similar to what Paul would advise Timothy to drink a little wine instead of water.

Again, have you ever wondered why Paul never gave us any promises regarding physical healing in Romans to Philemon?

 

[jiminpa]

The basic lesson I am teaching is that 2 Corinthians 1:20 does not allow you to claim promises that God gave to a different group, Israel, in a different time period

Jesus was ministering to Israel under the Law.

You must understand that, under the Old Covenant of Law, God literally promised Israel that if they obey him, they will never fall sick (Deuteronomy 7:15, Exodus 15:26)

Under the promised kingdom of heaven on Earth, no one in Israel will be maim or sick too Isaiah 33:24

So Jesus was giving Israel a taste of what life will be under that promised kingdom on Earth that he is offering to them

But now, we gentiles in the Body of Christ, God does not deal with us according to the Law (Romans 6:14).

So God does not promise healing to us based on any promises, seeing a doctor when you are sick is the standard advice, similar to what Paul would advise Timothy to drink a little wine instead of water.

Again, have you ever wondered why Paul never gave us any promises regarding physical healing in Romans to Philemon?

Yet Peter quoted Isaiah in the past tense. The disciples healed after the resurrection. If we are not healed, no promise is certain, and the Bible is just an ancient book.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Have you ever wondered why the Apostle Paul, the one apostle who calls himself the apostle to the gentiles (Romans 11:13), never taught us any of these things in Romans to Philemon?

Instead, we have these 2 events the Holy Spirit recorded Paul as saying

"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (1 Tim 5:23)

2 Timothy 4:20
Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
Do you think there is a special reason?

Means today is no different from then.

 

[Guojing]

Sorry, there is a ministry specifically for healing in the body of Christ,..

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and severally members thereof.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues.

Not everyone will have this ministry, but it is one of the greater giftings that a person can receive from Jesus if they pursue GOD for it.

You can't keep trying to fall back on this "it was only for Israel" crap when The Holy Spirit specifically listed it right there for us Gentiles.

You never ask why Paul did not rely on that in 2 Timothy?

 

[ARBITER01]

You never ask why Paul did not rely on that in 2 Timothy?

I don't have to ask anything when I have scripture stating it clearly that the body of Christ has a specific ministry of healing.

Take your lies some place else and see if folks will listen to them.

 

[Guojing]

I don't have to ask anything when I have scripture stating it clearly that the body of Christ has a specific ministry of healing.

Take your lies some place else and see if folks will listen to them.

Alright then, we will agree to disagree then.

You have read my post elsewhere that there is a difference between Paul's letters written before the fall of Israel in Acts 28, and the letters he wrote after that.

 

[Guojing]

Yet Peter quoted Isaiah in the past tense. The disciples healed after the resurrection. If we are not healed, no promise is certain, and the Bible is just an ancient book.

If you want to claim God promise the same healing to the Body of Christ, as he did for Israel, we can agree to disagree.

But do you agree with me at least, that 2 Corinthians 1:20 does not allow you to claim EVERY promise God has ever made in scripture?

If you disagree, you have to believe that someone can also claim Genesis 15:5 and Matthew 19:28 for themselves.

 

[ARBITER01]

Alright then, we will agree to disagree then.

You have read my post elsewhere that there is a difference between Paul's letters written before the fall of Israel in Acts 28, and the letters he wrote after that.

I think this is a situation that you created in your mind. Trying to say there is no healing in the body of Christ and it was only for Israel is a lie, straight up lie, when I can specifically show that Jesus provided healing for His body as a ministry.

I think you're attempting to walk a tightrope over here in the Spirit-filled section with your cessationism. At some point your probably gonna get reported.

 

[Guojing]

I think this is a situation that you created in your mind. Trying to say there is no healing in the body of Christ and it was only for Israel is a lie, straight up lie, when I can specifically show that Jesus provided healing for His body as a ministry.

I think you're attempting to walk a tightrope over here in the Spirit-filled section with your cessationism. At some point your probably gonna get reported.

This is a discussion about cessationism correct?

If you disagree with a view, does it automatically make it a lie? Is everything black and white to you?

 

[jiminpa]

This is a discussion about cessationism correct?

If you disagree with a view, does it automatically make it a lie? Is everything black and white to you?

What makes it a lie is your disagreement with scripture. You try to trap us on technicalities, but that doesn't make you right, nor does it impress God. It just leaves people who want to follow Christ, but listen to you, defenseless in the spiritual war we are in.

 

[jiminpa]

I don't have to ask anything when I have scripture stating it clearly that the body of Christ has a specific ministry of healing.

Take your lies some place else and see if folks will listen to them.

Therein lies the problem. Others do listen, and some make big money selling unbelief.

 

[jiminpa]

If you want to claim God promise the same healing to the Body of Christ, as he did for Israel, we can agree to disagree.

But do you agree with me at least, that 2 Corinthians 1:20 does not allow you to claim EVERY promise God has ever made in scripture?

If you disagree, you have to believe that someone can also claim Genesis 15:5 and Matthew 19:28 for themselves.

Nice try, but it's a shell game. If we start down that road you will just use that to whittle away at God's written word. Let me ask you this, what kind of faith is it that rests on whittling away at God's word?

 

[Guojing]

.

 

[Guojing]

What makes it a lie is your disagreement with scripture. You try to trap us on technicalities, but that doesn't make you right, nor does it impress God. It just leaves people who want to follow Christ, but listen to you, defenseless in the spiritual war we are in.

So disagreement with you means disagreement with scripture?

 

[Guojing]

Nice try, but it's a shell game. If we start down that road you will just use that to whittle away at God's written word. Let me ask you this, what kind of faith is it that rests on whittling away at God's word?

Its really a simple question on how do you understand 2 Corinthians 1:20

But I can understand why you decline to answer.

 

[jiminpa]

So disagreement with you means disagreement with scripture?

No! disagreement with the scriptures, means disagreement with the scriptures.

 

[jiminpa]

Its really a simple question on how do you understand 2 Corinthians 1:20

But I can understand why you decline to answer.

If you really do understand, then you are intentional.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Their favorite thinking is "I am already healed in the spirit, and if I keep believing and declaring I am healed, I will eventually see it in the physical realm".

Problem is that many who took that stance ended up dying from a preventable medical condition!