Day 8, Proverbs Chapter 8

[Look Up]

Hi Mary,

Thank you again for your post. I have been preoccupied in part by health challenges as not unusually and by the need to prepare a lesson at church which I was asked to do to fill in while others are away in summer.

Some of what you relate seems strange to me, but other parts--or perhaps the whole also--strangely familiar even if sometimes in other garb, and indeed I wonder if your experience is not fairly common among Christians even if with variations. Or at least I do not think you are alone even if you are an individual--I mean looking across not only space on the globe but time, the history of the church.

Part of my immediate interest in preparations for church has been the Lukan theme of Jesus going up to Jerusalem for His death-resurrection-ascension event (considered as a package) and how this contrasts with His disciple's question posed to Him: "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume" (9:54) the Samaritan villages that would not receive Him because they heard He "set His face to go to Jerusalem" (v. 51)--which led me back to the history of the Samaritans and northern kingdom. Cf. e.g., Elijah calling down fire from heaven which consumed Ahaziah's soldiers sent to capture him, 2 Kings 1, for example.

A bit of a digression, I realize, and one I will not develop fully here, but one that has led to my wrestling again with God's justice and mercy--for the latter, the tenderness and mildness, if you will, of God (Matt. 11:29?). At least I understand, or think I do, that "the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost" (Lk. 19:10) even among Samaritans (cf. John 4, Acts 8 ... because God the Father so loved the wicked world, cf. John 3:16).

And as not uncommonly, salvation of such dubious characters as Samaritans (they have their significant sins and problems as I could relate) may require patience (as Jesus demonstrated) and sometimes bearing the brunt of apathy or antipathy: "Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of heaven" Paul exhorts the believers at Lystra, Iconium and (Pisidian) Antioch, Acts 14:22 in summary and (to author Luke) thematic fashion, for disciples of Jesus in some sense mimic Jesus in His suffering for righteousness sake.

I doubt that Lady Wisdom would disagree, though I recall also her saying that at the end of the day, "all who hate me love death." No, I don't think God has any pleasure in the death of the wicked either (cf. Ezek. 18:23, 33:11), but by destroying Ahaziah's soldiers, God not only delivered His prophet from probable death but also did what His nature requires: protract just judgment. Wisdom at the end of the day must agree with her Creator in that too. Or on the flip side again as you wrote, in the Eucharist and other reflection, the tenderness and mildness of the Great, Awesome, Thrice Holy Living God forms rather a striking (and encouraging) contrast.

May the Lord lead you in paths of righteousness for His name's sake and give you peace even while you feel as a prophet (de?)crying in the wilderness (i.e., alone), as Lady Wisdom must often feel, to judge from history.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,
Lady Wisdom as you call her, other than being much more than that, I don't know of her loneliness.
Jesus on the other hand, I am sure was much in the feeling of loneliness. One of the best features about being led by God, is getting a taste, a sample, and therefore an understanding of what Jesus went through.
Perhaps that is the beauty also, of getting to know God by any means. It is to find out what they felt like, in those circumstances.
However, to be sure, I am not Jesus and He has reminded me of this, but also, His Brother to me, His Brother to me, The Holy Spirit to you and me, but, His Brother to me, has also reminded me that I am not Jesus. Once Jesus reminded me.
The two occasions that I was reminded by The Holy Spirit, Jesus's brother to me, and yes God's other son to me, but sent, not begotten, of not being Jesus, I quit just shy of success.
In the first instance, only five minutes of enduring a pain, just a little longer and I would have been sucessful, on that assignment.
In the second instance and on the second day, in an event that could have killed me, and that was the point, I quit just 30 minutes shy of my goal. Even if I was an hour away, or even if that task resulted in my death, that was the point.
I was to go on, no matter what the cost, and accept the outcome as God's Will. Instead it took me Three and a half hours to back track, and on the back track I lied. "I am too old to be a soldier." That was a lie. The truth was, I am not Jesus, as He would have done both of those tasks, no matter how long it took and no matter what the cost to Him.
(Yes, God got me back for the "too old to be a soldier" comment. It is off topic. A year and a half later, thus older, I was in a battle royale, which I survived, and scared me. The only point was this. Once a soldier, always a soldier. And it was God who made that point to me.)
I sort of liked and slowly started to understand, that I don't have to be equal to Jesus, in order to be loved and liked by His Father, nor The Holy Spirit, and maybe even every one else. I just have to be me, and that is hard to take, but again off the subject of sharing.
The first time I was to compete with Jesus, I was allowed to. I also did not know at the time it was Jesus that I was competing with, HOPEFULLY. The event was over nine years ago, and I at the time did not know.
I did learn, and it is hard to accept for me, that indeed Jesus of more tender and mild than I am, and the amount if I gave you the visuals, is ~quite large~, but I used those marks to say that those words have the definitions that God used, in explaining that to me.
Tender and mild, to words almost never used in the context of God, are in fact the core personality of Jesus.

The fact that you said, strangely similar, and also said, in other garb, is encouraging to me. When I talk of Wisdom, or God, all of that is in my normal interactions with each of them, either in years past, or just recently.
I know what is slowly happening to me, and it scares me, the way it scared Paul. Paul was worried about what would happen, if he died, physically. He was worried about what would happen to all the ones that he was telling about God.
In my case, instantly after seeing ~The Essence of God~ and thus instantly not able to live without God, in that very personal way, I started to leave, The Word, your world so to speak, and enter into, All of God, which is not your world nor mine normally, unless Jesus and Mary make it so.
I notice now, that almost all I know of God is what He feels like to me. It is what He does. It is what I feel when He asks me to do something. It is also what I see, and the changes, in the lives of others. My relationship is so personal, that I have to study what is called Scripture now a days, to find out what anyone is saying. In, the past, that is all I knew.
The first time I encountered Wisdom as a female, was at work. I was brilliant beyond belief almost, and that is what I heard at various and sundry times, when she started to be a part of my life, and most likely before that time.
The day came to find out something about her. I already knew that Proverbs 8, talked about her in a way that is very relationship oriented, and the first thing God ever created, plus with enough road blocks to her ever being always the characteristic, or even the wisdom of Jesus, it was soon that she seemed Biblically to be what she said she was, created, and having fun really with God, as He created all else that is in creation.
On this particular day, it was the year 2000 or so, I was all set up. Everything went wrong, that was supposed to go wrong. I just spent about 7 or 8 hours in a meeting with all technicians and all engineers involved to solve a machine problem, and I did not have the answer to the problem in an hour or so, for them. I did not have the answer to the problem by the end of that work day. I am now primed by God, to take my next step in understanding.
Walking out to my car, I kept thinking and I was amazed. I was amazed at not having the answer. I was getting to the point of complaining, as I always had the answer. Wait a litte.
Recently, things changed. I now knew God was Real, and I did not know that a few weeks earlier. So, I guessed, or figured that was the problem.
Stated, the problem is this. Since I now knew God was Real, and I couldn't solve the problem, maybe the problem is that I am not including God now. ~The answer came, and then I asked simultaneously. These marks are again here. The beautiful woman above my left shoulder was there, and Jesus was to my right, but slightly in front of me.~ I then knew.
What I knew was all those years, that I was excessively brilliant, it, that was never me, rather it was God. To me they had been feeding me those answers for years.
I did not know then, who the woman was. I do now. It is Wisdom, the one I also call God's gal pal. I also did not know at the time that Jesus was always there in those moments. I do now know that it was Him.
Religiously, you are not allowed to believe me without God telling you that this is true, but to you.
This is my life, and certain parts have proof. That one does not. Yet, it is my life, I have seen her colors, I have felt her, I have been helped by her, and where I get this next part from, that too, I cannot tell you, as I forgot because it is in Provebs somewhere or Psalms, but it is the combination I think of more than one point. However, it is also my life.
The job Wisdom was given by God is to test each person, for their commitment to honesty.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[Look Up]

Hi Mary,

I'm not sure I have the strength right now to give the kind of response I think needed, but perhaps a few remarks.

I think you are right in saying there are some truths or experiences God "allows" (or grants) some and not others to know and understand. I cannot here fully describe what I think the context and motivations of Paul were in including oblique reference to a vision of his listed in his--if I can call it this--parody encomium in trying to win back the hearts of Christians at Corinth from boastful detractors and their influential patrons, 2 Cor. 10-12, nor can I say the parallels with your own experience are necessarily tightly present, but in effect the apostle seems to have had a vision of heavenly things that was for him alone--he was not permitted to talk about many aspects of it--and also in some sense for us or for the church at Corinth and for later readers of the inspired apostolic record (since briefly recorded in Scripture). Again without making close comparison with your own supernatural experience(s), as far as it goes, some aspects may be for you alone (for all I know) and others for others as well. Or for those to whom it is given to understand.

In what sense if any your related experience is "for me" for example is perhaps not for me to say at present. I can say with some confidence that there is much about the unseen world which Christ created in the beginning (Col. 1) which I do not understand or that I little understand--e.g., the beings (e.g., what we seem to call angelic beings, but I wonder if the term does not mask distinctions or cover only one set of classes among others) and their causal effects in the material world of my greater familiarity. I may thus prefer to see the "beautiful woman above [your] left shoulder" as an angel who may play a role in imparting wisdom rather than as the personified Wisdom of Prov. 8, but such claim would, as like as not, be more than I know if that were my preference.

Whatever the case, I do not see your experience in any way, so far as you relate it, necessarily passes outside the bounds of orthodoxy, not that my opinion on that subject need be taken too seriously, but in consequence of this and the above, I am glad for your experiences and the good it seems to have done you in the end as at present. May the Lord in Christ bless your spirit and your mind.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi Mary,

I'm not sure I have the strength right now to give the kind of response I think needed, but perhaps a few remarks.

I think you are right in saying there are some truths or experiences God "allows" (or grants) some and not others to know and understand. I cannot here fully describe what I think the context and motivations of Paul were in including oblique reference to a vision of his listed in his--if I can call it this--parody encomium in trying to win back the hearts of Christians at Corinth from boastful detractors and their influential patrons, 2 Cor. 10-12, nor can I say the parallels with your own experience are necessarily tightly present, but in effect the apostle seems to have had a vision of heavenly things that was for him alone--he was not permitted to talk about many aspects of it--and also in some sense for us or for the church at Corinth and for later readers of the inspired apostolic record (since briefly recorded in Scripture). Again without making close comparison with your own supernatural experience(s), as far as it goes, some aspects may be for you alone (for all I know) and others for others as well. Or for those to whom it is given to understand.

In what sense if any your related experience is "for me" for example is perhaps not for me to say at present. I can say with some confidence that there is much about the unseen world which Christ created in the beginning (Col. 1) which I do not understand or that I little understand--e.g., the beings (e.g., what we seem to call angelic beings, but I wonder if the term does not mask distinctions or cover only one set of classes among others) and their causal effects in the material world of my greater familiarity. I may thus prefer to see the "beautiful woman above [your] left shoulder" as an angel who may play a role in imparting wisdom rather than as the personified Wisdom of Prov. 8, but such claim would, as like as not, be more than I know if that were my preference.

Whatever the case, I do not see your experience in any way, so far as you relate it, necessarily passes outside the bounds of orthodoxy, not that my opinion on that subject need be taken too seriously, but in consequence of this and the above, I am glad for your experiences and the good it seems to have done you in the end as at present. May the Lord in Christ bless your spirit and your mind.

Hi,
I just happened to stroll in here. And wow, someone who seems to know also, that none of what I went through fails Biblically. I was pleased by that. I was also not pleased when the church had to review all of this, because of my rather, shall I say BIG MOUTH. I tried and tried to keep this to myself. I did.
I am going to say something that I cannot prove. Historically, I have read that anyone who has an experience like mine, for a short time has many abilities that fade as time goes on.
It was in being able to see and feel what others like me saw and felt, if and only if, their experiences were also from God that soon, I was to learn what I went through, and also who was of God and who was not.
And, I forgot. Trying to figure things out that happened, also taught me much, for you now. It is this. For an individual incident, the only person who understands that incident, if they understand it, is the person themselves.
Thus when anyone says they have an experience with God, and I see what they see, and I feel what they feel, I only ask them if they know what it means. Everyone else is wrong, normally. There can be exceptions, but normally the only person who knows is the person it happened to. The reasons are because when God uses a phrase, or a word to a person, He uses their understanding of the phrase, and their understanding of the word, and not His, nor yours, nor anyone elses.
Assuming now that is correct, then visions of Paul and Daniel are only understood and translateable by them.
I do have some items, that I cannot tell everyone about, and even if I would, not could for I can say, I don't see the purpose.
Occasionally, your God and mine, do not allow me to share something with this person or that person. Paul might have those restrictions. I wrote a whole big thing once. Then God asked me to get it back. I never understood, till later. The point was, the person I gave it to, was not advanced enough in God yet, to handle that book, and neither are most people. Much to all of that book is released now, but it is released in small segments and to this person and that person.
Everyone's journey is personal it seems like. Yours is. Once a man heard, who was not of God, that God The Father and Jesus Christ had used their personal voices to talk to me. My request to him, from God was for Him to Study the Bible in a certain way, and he refused and refused. That takes it out of my hands.
His problem was he saw nothing wrong at work, in saying things that were not true, then standing in back of those statements, with his full authority. Biblically, he did the exact same things.
When he did not listen to two requests from God, through someone else, after he recovered his composure, he wanted to know what God had said to me.
I did not want to tell him, until his mind went into the unknown with this. He was looking for something great and calamitous. It was great, but just for one person.
Finally frustrated and needing him to back off, I told him the entire incident, plus some of God The Fathers personal words, but none of Jesus Personal words as I could not remember everything, and this wasn't for me in the first place.
I told him. After coming back from a required trip, because I did not want to upset God, by upsetting The Virgin Mary, who asked me to go somewhere to get A GIFT, I had seen the ESSENCE OF GOD, similar to the Beatific Vision and yes, with the same impact on me, something like that would have. I didn't want to be here anymore and I still do not, except for you and others here. For, that I love being here. I did not tell him all that happened there, but went on. I said, well a boy was at my door, he was asking for money for a cause in Oregon. I said I could not do that, yet. He mentioned to me that he had seen Jesus Christ one day, personally. I then asked him what he knew about God, and he was much off the mark. So, I asked God for when he had seen Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit responded. I was not sure though, so I asked again in total New Testament Faith expecting God to give me the answer. The exact same date came to me, and this time I spoke it. I cannot say I chose to speak it, my lips, mouth and vocal cords said the date. He heard, In this month, on this day, in this year, that is when you saw Jesus.
Well it was so and it got his attention. Later God The Father was talking, Jesus was talking, The Holy Spirit who had given me the day, the month and the year might be talking, and each of them gave me things to say to this boy/man.
In the end, God The Father said something for me to tell the boy, and I had to change the words, as I did not know how to say it exactly. What God The Father had me tell him, was the next step for him, in his journey to understand God, with what had happened to him.
That was it. He was told that in two weeks also. He got a phone call from me, asking what did I tell him that night. What did I tell him.
God can give earth shattering news to this person or that. He can also just tell a boy, what he needs to do next. Those are the kinds of things I get from God. They are to help others, only.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[Tishri1]

August 8,
Proverbs 8
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1 Wisdom is calling!
Understanding is raising her voice!
2 On the heights along the road,
where the paths meet, she is standing;
3 by the gates leading into the city,
at the entrances, she cries aloud:

Can we hear Wisdom calling? What have we heard?

6 “Listen! I will say worthwhile things;
when I speak, my words are right.
7 My mouth says what is true,
because my lips detest evil.
8 All the words from my mouth are righteous;
nothing false or crooked is in them.
9 They are all clear to those who understand
and straightforward to those who gain knowledge.

What have we recieved during this last month that is worth while, clear, and straightforward? I have direction since last month! Have you received some too?

12 “I, wisdom, live together with caution;
I attain knowledge and discretion.
.....
14 Good advice is mine, and common sense;
I am insight, power is mine.

I believe I have answers to a problem that has plagued me for a month. Thank you Lord for your Wisdom and guidance.

22 “Adonai made me as the beginning of his way,
the first of his ancient works.
23 I was appointed before the world,
before the start, before the earth’s beginnings.
.....
30 I was with him as someone he could trust.
For me, every day was pure delight,
as I played in his presence all the time,.
31 playing everywhere on his earth,
and delighting to be with humankind.

This stuck out to me this time....It seems to be Jesus/Messiah and I am sooooo Happy to read this! I imagine He wants us to be this way with Him!

32 “Therefore, children, listen to me:
happy are those who keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and grow wise;
do not refuse it.
34 How happy the person who listens to me,
who watches daily at my gates
and waits outside my doors.
35 For he who finds me finds life
and obtains the favor of Adonai.
36 But he who misses me harms himself;

Amen!

 

[katerinah1947]

August 8,
Proverbs 8
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Can we hear Wisdom calling? What have we heard?

What have we recieved during this last month that is worth while, clear, and straightforward? I have direction since last month! Have you received some too?

I believe I have answers to a problem that has plagued me for a month. Thank you Lord for your Wisdom and guidance.


This stuck out to me this time....It seems to be Jesus/Messiah and I am sooooo Happy to read this! I imagine He wants us to be this way with Him!

Amen!

Hi,
I love your progress. I can feel it.
Proverbs 9:1-3.
LOVE,
...Me., .... .

 

[Poster0]

Wisdom was with God in the very beginning. Before commandments was wisdom. Everyone agrees that we cannot earn salvation by obeying commandments, however i think its good to see commands as wisdom. When we follow the Lords commands we may not be earning anything but wisdom itself. Even in gaining wisdom we cannot boast because wisdom teaches us that boasting is foolish. Christ said whoever obeys his command will be counted as wise, and those who do not foolish. Paul teaches us to not be unwise but to understand the Lords will.

 

[rockytopva]

Here in Proverbs 8 wisdom takes on a persona of its own and talks back to you!

12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. - Proverbs 8

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi

I came a day ago. There is and was much to read. It seems as though, there is nothing more for me to say, except I forget what I have said, and forget even what is in the Bible from time to time. It is good to be here again, reading, relearning, communing.

Proverbs 8:11, Wisdom is capitalized.
I reread proverbs after that.
OhMy, it reads well.
Proverbs 8:35 If you love her, God finds favor in you.
Proverbs 8:36 If you don't love her, it hurts you as when you die, you do not live with God. Death to me there, is not living with God after being alive on earth.

LOVE,

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

As always, if I am wrong about Wisdom, then I am wrong about Wisdom. What I have said, is just the way I see her.

LOVE,

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

Pro 8:9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

Selah

 

[brinny]

in Proverbs 8, verse 12 especially stood out for me:

"I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions."

witty inventions....reminds me of how God will open up the "flood gates" of creativity and teach us things we did not know before. Reminds me of this equally precious verse and promise:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." ~Jeremiah 33:3

Is this DELIGHTFUL, or what?

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Here is Wisdom personified, a wonderful technique used to give Wisdom a voice, and a female voice...giving good advice

Proverbs 8
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,

11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

then the invitation from Wisdom...

32 “Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.

33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.

34 Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.

35 For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.

36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”

 

[Swan7]

Proverbs 8
Love righteousness and wisdom, hate the sin and live.

 

[Travelers.Soul]

I feel awful about not being able to really keep up with posting (over the weekend and such) but I thought I'd post a few thoughts about Proverbs 8. I find the language of this chapter absolutely beautiful. This chapter speaks in a sense of the birth of wisdom. Before the beginning of the earth wisdom was set up. The Lord is wise and he is the author of wisdom. Those who search for it diligently are rewarded and find her, they become wise. For whoever finds her not only finds a priceless treasure but also life and the favor of the Lord.

 

[brinny]

In reading Proverbs 8, these verses stood out for me:

8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

Especially verse 9:

What this is saying is that when one is desiring to understand God's Word, that God, GIVES the understanding and the words in God's Word are made plain to the reader. It's as if they are "lit up"....

and again it reminds me of this verse:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." ~Jeremiah 33:3

When we desire to understand God's Word, and "call" on Him to grant us that understanding, He DOES! And His Word "lights up" like a Christmas tree as He shows us what we did not "see" or "notice" before. It's like He removes a "veil" from our eyes that was hiding those treasures previously.

What a precious Teacher He is.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Proverbs 8 verse 17 (wisdom speaks)
I love all who love me,
Those who search for me shall surely find me

 

[musicalpilgrim]

so true!

 

[brinny]

In reading Proverbs 8, this verse stood out for me. It indicates something very precious to God, a hunger for Him, and His wisdom. It indicates an eagerness for God to teach His wisdom to a heart that is like a plowed field, and ready for God's seeds of wisdom and understanding to be planted.

Precious.

 

[brinny]

In reading Proverbs 8, this verse stood out for me: