David Horowitz: The Left Hates Christianity — and America

[1000Flames]

See, thats the assumption part. You can't take one bad batch of apples and say all apples are the same/bad. Its like saying germans today are still nazis. Westboro is a fringe cult group. Even christians know that. They having nothing to do with any denomination. They simply use the title.

Its like saying as a democrat you are part of the group of christians that Hillary is who supports abortion, LGBT....etc. Though I find the fact Hillary is a christian absurd. None the less I would never claim one denomination is the same as a cult like group who claims to be the same.

Instead of being one group, we now list each other as separate groups based on politics and bash each other.

So which one do you want. Do you want to be one group or be counted as separate other groups? Take your pick.

 

[archer75]

Would it be against the rules to have a thread title that includes the words "the Right hates Christianity?"

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

So which one do you want. Do you want to be one group or be counted as separate other groups? Take your pick.

We are on group in terms of being "christian". But aside from name alone we are all different denominations. But we live in a world where when one group does bad, suddenly people hate christians as a whole instead of saying "That group that did <insert thing> is to blame, not all christians.". Not to mention and person can claim to be part of any denomination or even a christian.

 

[archer75]

We are on group in terms of being "christian". But aside from name alone we are all different denominations. But we live in a world where when one group does bad, suddenly people hate christians as a whole instead of saying "That group that did <insert thing> is to blame, not all christians.". Not to mention and person can claim to be part of any denomination or even a christian.

Not all people do this. Considering the astounding evil behavior engaged in by many Christians, often under the auspices or even in the name of their communion / confession / church, I think the rest of the world goes pretty easy on us and is pretty understanding.

 

[USincognito]

Would it be against the rules to have a thread title that includes the words "the Right hates Christianity?"

If it were the musings of a CFer. In this case it's a direct quote from a public figure so it's alright.

 

[archer75]

If it were the musings of a CFer. In this case it's a direct quote from a public figure so it's alright.

I will have to consult the mods about this. I think I must be misunderstanding the rules. Thanks.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I think the further left one goes the more likely someone is going to hate Christianity or at least hate traditional Christianity but it's not universal. Pro-life democrats still exist for some reason and though the left largely rejects them they are still on that side of politics. So, no, the entire left doesn't hate Christianity.

I'm willing to say the same about the right, be it the authoritarian right or libertarian right. The latter dislikes Christianity because it intrudes on human freedom and creates rules. The authoritarian right I've seen more susceptible to paganism and not liking Christianity because it doesn't go far enough or outright stops them from doing anything extreme.

 

[FireDragon76]

Well if you follow the money - I'd say the exercise would reveal some truth to the conjecture. Starting with 'anti American' one can say the left is all too ready to take George Soros' money and he himself has stated this:

I would agree with him. The US sets the agenda despite being detached from the real needs and concerns of the global community. That's the actions of a global bully.

 

[FireDragon76]

See, thats the assumption part. You can't take one bad batch of apples and say all apples are the same/bad. Its like saying germans today are still nazis. Westboro is a fringe cult group. Even christians know that. They having nothing to do with any denomination. They simply use the title.

Its like saying as a democrat you are part of the group of christians that Hillary is who supports abortion, LGBT....etc. Though I find the fact Hillary is a christian absurd. None the less I would never claim one denomination is the same as a cult like group who claims to be the same.

You would find it so, but I don't. But that's because you've been fed propaganda for so long, that's all you will believe. I have no problem recognizing Hillary Clinton within the United Methodist Church. I went to those same types of churches as a child growing up. And politically, she isn't that different from George W. Bush, another United Methodist. Both are centrists and political moderates. Hillary's career in activism is also congruent with a long history of Methodist activism in the US.

 

[John 1720]

I would agree with him. The US sets the agenda despite being detached from the real needs and concerns of the global community. That's the actions of a global bully.

So which nation in your mind is your champion for a better world?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Perhaps if the left tried to have a reasoned debate one time they might get a response from the right? Calling them names really doesn't qualify as a reasoned debate.

Yeah, well chanting "Lock her up!" and mocking people with disabilities doesn't qualify as "reasoned debate", so forgive us if we're skeptical that such a request is sincere.

 

[keith99]

I don't know if I qualify as liberal. I clearly am on some points like gay rights. I'm also am clearly financially conservative. I also pretty often do not like the solutions of either the left or right. But I am a godless atheist (yes I know that is redundant). So perhaps that is enough to put me on the Left as Horowitz sees it.

I love America. I love that last weekend on the way to watch my college rugby team play an away game at an explicitly Christian University I passed a Hindu Temple. I love seeing the observant Jews walking down my street every Saturday. I love that decades ago my Jewish boss invited my to a presentation he thought (correctly) I would enjoy at the synagogue he attended. I love that I can go shopping at a local Indian store and can ask if someone is Hindu or Sikh. I love riding a local bike path and having a Jewish gentleman tell me that he has not pushed the walk button (can you guess which day of the week). And I love even more that there is enough information well dispersed that I knew exactly what it meant.

I think the claim that I hate America pretty much falls flat. But Perhaps the claim that I hate Christianity does not. But I have to have a question answered first!

Which Christianity?

The Danbury Baptists or the Westboro Baptists?

The Christians who decided that as all men were their brothers slavery was unacceptable or the ones who found justification for slavery in Scripture (while ignoring that the American version omitted the safeguards incorporated in Scripture)?

After the Rodney King riots the AME Church that was preaching hatred so thick that you could feel it, the Prosperity Gospel Church that was doing absolutely nothing because God would provide for anyone whose belief was strong enough or the little green Pentecostal Church that with one small hiccup was distributing food to all in need?

Among those who think life begins at conception the Christians who picket or even bomb clinics that perform abortions and often try to prevent the use of birth control or the Christians who open their home to a pregnant young woman and follow through after the birth until she is ready to move forward.

The Christians on this board who say they will pray for me (yet somehow always make it seem like judgement at best and a curse at worst) or those who ASK it is ok with me for them to pray for me? (I've never declined the later and actually value it because the feeling projected is that they actually care about me, not some evangelizing points with their God).

As a Christian has already mentioned the Christians who tell streetwalkers that they are going to Hell or the Christians who tell streetwalkers that their God will welcome them and heal their heart and soul?

The Christianity of The Society of Friends who offered help to all those who as a matter of conscience declined to go to war specifically including those who did not base their beliefs on the word of some god or the Christians who were influential in creating the laws where only those whose conscience was based of a belief in some God?

The Christians who come to my door, disturb my peace and act like I have never heard their claims before or the Lutheran Church near me which has never disturbed me but may have dropped off invitations to Christmas or Easter services and which runs a food bank? A food bank I have donated to so I know for a fact that they do not ask about ones faith when one is donating and I'm 99% sure do not when one is receiving.

The Christian Churches which when a Jewish or Muslim place of worship is damaged or destroyed by nature or men open their doors and invite them to hold services in their building or the sort of Church whose members are apt to be the men who destroyed those other places of worship?

Or how about a Christian minister who in a captive situation valued fellowship over preaching and because of that declined to give a sermon because he did not want to intrude on the beliefs of a godless atheist who was a fellow prisoner? For that matter how about the atheist in question who I think motivated by the same valuing of fellowship decided that the sermon would cause far more comfort for his fellows than discomfort for him and expressed the desire that the sermon be given, which it was,

So I ask which Christianity? For some I will still risk my body defending. Others I would happily see destroyed.

So do I hate Christianity? Perhaps from Horwitz's viewpoint I do, but I think that when it comes to bad things that says far more about Horowitz than it does about me.

 

[FireDragon76]

So which nation in your mind is your champion for a better world?

Germany. And I say that with a sense of historical irony.

 

[John 1720]

Germany. And I say that with a sense of historical irony.

Well, I do love Germans, even though they bullied the world through two atrocious world wars. Still I'm not sure what fruits you see there that cause you to believe what you do. The Germans I have spoken to these days seem to think the country is in a terrible place right now, especially on a national level. So, I'd be interested in hearing how Germany has helped the world, while the US has not; in what comparative way do you surmise that to be true? What are your metrics that support your claim?

 

[grasping the after wind]

The Right in the US has a powerful cadre of religious fanatics who are simply not interested in reasoned debate, in fact it goes against their worldview.

Is calling a group a cadre of religious fanatics is your idea of carrying out a reasoned debate?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I know. Just imagine if the right called them Marxist, Communist, God Hating, anti-American, etc. etc. If only the left were as civil as the right.

So let me get this straight are you agreeing with me that name calling is not the way to conduct civil debate or are you simply indulging in whataboutism?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yeah. It's ridiculous to assume that isn't going both ways. Too often, the responses from "the right" are not grounded in solid evidence or they say our claims are "crying, whining, fake news, propaganda". Just real intellectually lazy responses.

Fact is, good debates happen when everyone is willing to provide sources and facts to back up their assertions. I FAAAR more often see right wingers on this site REFUSE to back up their sources "you can go find it" than I see left wingers do it (though I've seen it a couple times).

You think you might have confirmation bias?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yeah, well chanting "Lock her up!" and mocking people with disabilities doesn't qualify as "reasoned debate", so forgive us if we're skeptical that such a request is sincere.

Do you think smacking people in the face and calling them Nazis or calling the other side a basket of deplorables qualifies as reasoned debate? Why should the right has not be skeptical that the left is interested in a reasoned debate? When it comes to chanting and sloganeering the left is not exactly averse to that.

 

[Joy]

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