David Horowitz: The Left Hates Christianity — and America

[FireDragon76]

Perhaps if the left tried to have a reasoned debate one time they might get a response from the right? Calling them names really doesn't qualify as a reasoned debate.

The Right in the US has a powerful cadre of religious fanatics who are simply not interested in reasoned debate, in fact it goes against their worldview.

 

[FireDragon76]

The fact you worded it as the rights gang sign shows how much damage politics has done to christians. Instead of being one group, we now list each other as separate groups based on politics and bash each other.

I used to be much more chummy and conciliatory years ago, until I heard for the thousandth time how our churches were apostate and we were only nominally Christian. Now I'm thinking the division is inevitable and not something I'm going to wring my hands about anymore, and I've been that way for some time.

As Jesus said, spend your ill-gotten mammon wisely.

 

[rambot]

How many within that specific demographic do you know whom don't harbor ill-will towards Christianity?

Everyone who attended my Christian University. And many of my secular friends.
They actually like the precepts taught as a guide for living (though not the spiritual aspect of the faith). What they abhor is the exclusionary actions taken by Christians in ways that don't seem Christ-like.

A la Ghandis quotE:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

 

[iluvatar5150]

I'll chime in, let's see, the left:

-Bible is not infallible
-Pro abortion on demand
-Supports gay marriage
-Supports the prosperity Gospel
-Supports big government
-Open to socialism
-SOME, deny essential biblical truths, such as the virgin birth, bodily resurrection, second comming, and final judgement.

There are other issues as well, and there are those on right that may believe in these points as well.

Biblical infallibility, virgin birth, resurrection, second coming, and final judgment aren't issues on which "the left" has taken a position. They're issues on which Christians and non-Christians have taken positions.

Big government and socialism are not positions on which the Bible has a position.

I don't know how you figure that the left supports the prosperity gospel. IME, prosperity advocates may be somewhat less prone to hyper-partisanism than other evangelicals, but there's still a decidedly conservative leaning among them. And if there's anything that gets leftists in a tizzy, it's preachers with lavish lifestyles.

So, of your list, only two of them (abortion and gay marriage) are remotely valid answers as to why you find the right to be more Christian than the left. Given that, I suppose it shouldn't be much surprise that the rest of your reasons were either incorrect or gross conflations of political ideology and religious doctrine. Would it be too much to ask you to factor into your calculations the right's relatively greater taste for warmongering and oppressive policing?

Perhaps if the left tried to have a reasoned debate one time they might get a response from the right? Calling them names really doesn't qualify as a reasoned debate.

Cry me a river:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ann...rome..69i57.2687j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I've been listening to the Christian right demonize the left for decades. Just look at the title of this thread.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Perhaps if the left tried to have a reasoned debate one time they might get a response from the right? Calling them names really doesn't qualify as a reasoned debate.

Exactly. Just as you do when trying to lead someone to salvation, you don't walk up and say "Your committing sin heathen! You're going to hell! Oh and would you like to be saved?" All it does is make them put up a barrier in which they will be angry and not care what you have to say.

Same with many on the left. If you disagree with them they first assume you are on the right. Next they call you sexist, homophobic, "not really christian"...etc. If you can't be grown up and have to attack right away then no one will want to be peacefully debating back with you.

Trump is a great example of this. Anyone who wanted to vote for him before the election was labeled nazi, immoral...etc on the news, in conversations. And since he won it's gotten worse. Then the left get mad that you act mad back at them. Admittedly I did vote for him, though I wasn't going to vote at first. And yet people say I am for white supremacy and stuff like that because the KKK are for Trump. Which makes little sense. I'm sure the doctor I see has questionable people that go to him, doesn't mean my doctor believes like they do and it doesn't mean I do either.

POlitics has hit a whole new childish low. I may not even vote anymore. Let the country fall apart one way or another. As I said in the past like Rome, America will fall. It always starts from the inside.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I've been listening to the Christian right demonize the left for decades. Just look at the title of this thread.

See my above response about childish stuff "I know you are but what am I!". Both sides have always demonized each other forever. Its the nature of politics at times. But since Trump ran things have REALLY been taken to a new low.

 

[1000Flames]

The fact you worded it as the rights gang sign shows how much damage politics has done to christians. Instead of being one group, we now list each other as separate groups based on politics and bash each other.

You want to be associated as being part of the same group as Westboro Baptist? If you want, I could certainly consider you guys one and the same. Just want to verify first if that's OK.

 

[Go Braves]

Lol, he's been married 4 times & describes himself as agnostic. I don't think he's said what he has on account of having any form of insight on Christianity but just out of tribalism.

 

[RDKirk]

Lol, he's been married 4 times & describes himself as agnostic. I don't think he's said what he has on account of having any form of insight on Christianity but just out of tribalism.

As I said, for such people Christianity is just one of their gang signs.

 

[USincognito]

Perhaps if the left tried to have a reasoned debate one time they might get a response from the right? Calling them names really doesn't qualify as a reasoned debate.

I know. Just imagine if the right called them Marxist, Communist, God Hating, anti-American, etc. etc. If only the left were as civil as the right.

 

[USincognito]

I'll chime in, let's see, the left:

-Bible is not infallible
-Pro abortion on demand
-Supports gay marriage
-Supports the prosperity Gospel
-Supports big government
-Open to socialism
-SOME, deny essential biblical truths, such as the virgin birth, bodily resurrection, second comming, and final judgement.

There are other issues as well, and there are those on right that may believe in these points as well.

Hold in a second.
-Bible is not infallible
-Supports the prosperity Gospel
-SOME, deny essential biblical truths, such as the virgin birth, bodily resurrection, second comming, and final judgement.
These are all theological positions when Horowitz, and everyone else in this thread, is talking about the political left.

Also.
-Supports the prosperity Gospel
-Supports big government
-Open to socialism

There are a lot of political conservatives who are open to these things, they just want put a particular spin on it like government endorsement of their religion, enforcing their morays on others and cracking down on free speech they don't like such as inappropriate contentography.

 

[USincognito]

Lol, he's been married 4 times & describes himself as agnostic. I don't think he's said what he has on account of having any form of insight on Christianity but just out of tribalism.

So you're saying he's pro-marriage.

 

[RDKirk]

Exactly. Just as you do when trying to lead someone to salvation, you don't walk up and say "Your committing sin heathen! You're going to hell! Oh and would you like to be saved?" All it does is make them put up a barrier in which they will be angry and not care what you have to say.

I have spoken before of a woman I know--a former prostitute--who had been railed at that way by many street preachers. Her response had been, essentially, "Okay, so I'm going to hell. Can't be any worse than my life already is."

But then a preacher from our church had gone to her block one Saturday night and preached, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!"

That gave her a , "Wait...what?" moment. She had actually walked up to him, put her finger on his chest, and demanded, "Is that the truth?"

 

[FireDragon76]

Hold in a second.
-Bible is not infallible
-Supports the prosperity Gospel
-SOME, deny essential biblical truths, such as the virgin birth, bodily resurrection, second comming, and final judgement.
These are all theological positions when Horowitz, and everyone else in this thread, is talking about the political left.

Also.
-Supports the prosperity Gospel
-Supports big government
-Open to socialism

There are a lot of political conservatives who are open to these things, they just want put a particular spin on it like government endorsement of their religion, enforcing their morays on others and cracking down on free speech they don't like such as inappropriate contentography.

I've never heard of any left-leaning preachers or ministers in our churches that support the Prosperity Gospel. Most I have heard preach a message of social responsibility and stewardship of our resources, and we do not have the same disdain for weakness and suffering that is characteristic of the Word of Faith or Prosperity movement. On the contrary, the Religious Right has far more of that, from what I see. Trump even invited a few prosperity preachers to his inauguration.

 

[John 1720]

Conservative writer David Horowitz accused the "anti-religious, anti-American left" of conducting an ongoing effort to erase God from American society dating back six decades.

David Horowitz: The Left Hates Christianity — and America

Well if you follow the money - I'd say the exercise would reveal some truth to the conjecture. Starting with 'anti American' one can say the left is all too ready to take George Soros' money and he himself has stated this:

"The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States and that happens to coincide with the prevailing opinion in the world."

 

[JacobKStarkey]

The right does not seem to believe in objective discussion.

 

[JacobKStarkey]

Prosperity Gospel preachers are almost always far right wing.

 

[USincognito]

Well if you follow the money - I'd say the exercise would reveal some truth to the conjecture. Starting with 'anti American' one can say the left is all too ready to take George Soros' money and he himself has stated this:

Fantasy about "Soros" money is as laughable at that butchered and out of context "quote".

The Age of Fallibility: The Consequences of the War on Terror (2006) ISBN 1586483595

• The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States. This is a harsh — indeed, for me, painful — thing to say, but unfortunately I am convinced it is true. The United States continues to set the agenda for the world in spite of its loss of influence since 9/11, and the Bush administration is setting the wrong agenda . The Bush agenda is nationalistic: it emphasizes the use of force and ignores global problems whose solution requires international cooperation. The rest of the world dances to the tune the United States is playing, and if that continues too long we are in danger of destroying our civilization. Changing the attitude and policies of the United States remains my top priority.
  • Prologue, p. xvi

 

[rambot]

Perhaps if the left tried to have a reasoned debate one time they might get a response from the right? Calling them names really doesn't qualify as a reasoned debate.

Yeah. It's ridiculous to assume that isn't going both ways. Too often, the responses from "the right" are not grounded in solid evidence or they say our claims are "crying, whining, fake news, propaganda". Just real intellectually lazy responses.

Fact is, good debates happen when everyone is willing to provide sources and facts to back up their assertions. I FAAAR more often see right wingers on this site REFUSE to back up their sources "you can go find it" than I see left wingers do it (though I've seen it a couple times).

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

You want to be associated as being part of the same group as Westboro Baptist? If you want, I could certainly consider you guys one and the same. Just want to verify first if that's OK.

See, thats the assumption part. You can't take one bad batch of apples and say all apples are the same/bad. Its like saying germans today are still nazis. Westboro is a fringe cult group. Even christians know that. They having nothing to do with any denomination. They simply use the title.

Its like saying as a democrat you are part of the group of christians that Hillary is who supports abortion, LGBT....etc. Though I find the fact Hillary is a christian absurd. None the less I would never claim one denomination is the same as a cult like group who claims to be the same.