a-lily-of-peace
Well-Known Member
I believe the one about the followers of Jesus descending to Gehenna and being judged from generation to generation is definitely wrong.
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I believe the one about the followers of Jesus descending to Gehenna and being judged from generation to generation is definitely wrong.I addressed all that in my post. What you mentioned is only one view. I highlighted in red the many references to eternal, unending "hell" which I quoted from three Jewish sources the Jewish Encyclopedia,. the Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud with links.
For me, the scriptures are more ambiguous on this subject than has traditionally been claimed. However, there are historical exceptions, particularly among early Greek speaking Christians.
What is alarming is that some Christians seem to take delight in the future prospect that some will endure unending torment. One would expect that any mention of hell would be coupled with great sadness and a constant prayer that all would be saved. I'm sure some meet that condition, but surprisingly some don't. At any rate, may God's wish that all be saved be fulfilled.
FWIW, even the smallest sin is infinite --committed against the infinite God.My opinion, but I think the misinterpretation of that word is why some Greek speaking Christians understood hell to be remedial and an undetermined period of time (age) instead of eternal as the Latin speaking church seems to have taken it.
For a good number of Christians, hell isn’t just a tragic shadow cast across one of an otherwise ravishing vista’s remoter corners; rather, it’s one of the landscape’s most conspicuous and delectable details.
I know whereof I speak. I’ve published many books, often willfully provocative, and have vexed my share of critics. But only recently, in releasing a book challenging the historical validity, biblical origins, philosophical cogency and moral sanity of the standard Christian teaching on the matter of eternal damnation, have I ever inspired reactions so truculent, uninhibited and (frankly) demented.
Opinion | Why Do People Believe in Hell? (Published 2020)
What do we think about this?
I think personally that you cannot call yourself a Christian if you do not believe in hell as a place of eternal damnation. Jesus told us about hell. To doubt that Jesus was telling us the truth is to call Jesus a liar and no Christian on earth would dare do such a thing. There are far too many testimonies of people visibly disturbed by being shown in the spirit hell itself and they all describe what is in other Biblically related books about hell. Satan is real. Demons are real. In the third realm of heaven is paradise and sheol separated by a chasm called 'Styx'. You do not have to believe it. It does not care who believes in it or not. It would prefer you didn't believe it. It is in the OT and the NT and to reject the truth of the Bible is the spirit of Antichrist lying and deceiving. Just because a book is published does not make it true. The Bible is much more than just a published book. It is the most popular book in the world and has been since it was handwritten over and over again by scribes since 200 B.C. The Holy Bible is the most printed book in all of world history. This book was first printed in the Latin language in 1455 at the Gutenberg Printing Press, invented by Johannes Gutenberg and is situated in Mainz, Germany. That hardly competes with something printed a couple years ago. The Bible has stood the test of time and that is not because it is full of lies.For a good number of Christians, hell isn’t just a tragic shadow cast across one of an otherwise ravishing vista’s remoter corners; rather, it’s one of the landscape’s most conspicuous and delectable details.
I know whereof I speak. I’ve published many books, often willfully provocative, and have vexed my share of critics. But only recently, in releasing a book challenging the historical validity, biblical origins, philosophical cogency and moral sanity of the standard Christian teaching on the matter of eternal damnation, have I ever inspired reactions so truculent, uninhibited and (frankly) demented.
Opinion | Why Do People Believe in Hell? (Published 2020)
What do we think about this?
God completely trouncing his enemies gives me joy.
We know that what ends up in the LOF is the husk of humanity
Jesus talked more about hell than any other person in the Bible. He was entirely convinced of its existence and vigorously warned us. Seems reasonable his followers would accept his authoritative knowledge on the matter. Do you consider yourself more knowledge than Jesus on this subject? (Remember he visited the place.)For a good number of Christians, hell isn’t just a tragic shadow cast across one of an otherwise ravishing vista’s remoter corners; rather, it’s one of the landscape’s most conspicuous and delectable details.
I know whereof I speak. I’ve published many books, often willfully provocative, and have vexed my share of critics. But only recently, in releasing a book challenging the historical validity, biblical origins, philosophical cogency and moral sanity of the standard Christian teaching on the matter of eternal damnation, have I ever inspired reactions so truculent, uninhibited and (frankly) demented.
Opinion | Why Do People Believe in Hell? (Published 2020)
What do we think about this?
-I think DBH makes this same point in teh NYT article.
Did Karl Barth say something like: hell is eternal but it is valid to hope that it is empty?
Something that occurred to me recently was that for a human soul a trillion years is so close to infinity as makes no difference.
In other words even though "aionos" may not mean literal infinite duration, a punishment of a trillion years is still a very, very, very, verrrrry long time.
Since you wish it were otherwise, there is some hope that you will come to understand it. What do you make of this? Those who believe are a subset of all people that will be saved.-
Yet Jesus said broad is the road to destruction and narrow the road to life, few will find it. He compared His Second Coming to the time of Noah, when people were largely unprepared. I wish it were otherwise but as Christ-followers we have to right to disregard His teachings.
I think DBH makes this same point in teh NYT article.
Did Karl Barth say something like: hell is eternal but it is valid to hope that it is empty?
"We think" he disagrees with Jesus regarding Gehenna in Matthew 5:22, 18:8, 9, 25:41; Mark 9:43, 48; Luke 12:5, where the fire is not quenched and never goes out.
We're still left with Jesus' own use of Gehenna (the perpetually burning city dump south of Jerusalem) in Matthew 5:22, 18:8, 9, 25:41; Mark 9:43, 48; Luke 12:5, where the fire is not quenched and never goes out.
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This DBH guy is supposed to be Orthodox but I do not trust what I believe is actually a neo orthodoxy of his great intellect. Every year we focus on the Last Judgment ( it is always in focus of course) as we enter into Great Lent:
Sunday of the Last Judgment - OrthodoxWiki
I just want to add that Hart also seems to preach a dogma of universalism which is why I am skeptical about what he says about hell. His book on universalism came up as a strong secondary topic in an Orthodox forum I frequent.
Universal Salvation
Nothing delectable about Hell, in fact, the absolute horror of that reality is virtually beyond human comprehension. However, the reality of it is backed up by the ultimate authority - God - and no degree of mental gymnastics can overturn, negate, or result in the slightest alteration of His will and His word.
God completely trouncing his enemies gives me joy.
We know that the judge of all the earth will do what is right. We know that his justice is thorough, and precise. We know that what ends up in the LOF is the husk of humanity. There will be nothing to them to commend them to you. Consider that we ourselves in Heaven will only be what we are because we are IN HIM. Maybe this is a pretty good way to think of it --We are vessels --not the contents. Take the contents out and the vessel is nothing.
We know that God is altogether righteous. Thank God for his mercy.
FWIW, even the smallest sin is infinite --committed against the infinite God.
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